RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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05/01/2011 at 20:10
Yup, roll on spring, am waiting to trip over in the dark after 2 weeks of daytime running over the hols. Did 5 miles recovery tonight in the rain.
On a different not - does anyone use compression socks? Have bought a couple of pairs, worried about my shins with the increasing milage, way back when in my netball playing days i had bad shin splints. If you do wear compression socks, do you wear them on all your runs? Time for a big bowl of pasta!
05/01/2011 at 20:29
I wear Skins tights on all my runs and I have started wearing them after any long runs and quality sessions too. I'm not sure if it is making a difference but I have been able to increase my mileage without having any issues so I'm going to carry on. The only other time I did high mileage, my legs felt like lead weights for most of the time.
05/01/2011 at 22:06
Minni - no chance of a PB I'm afraid. I'm doing Ropsley Raid which is X country 13 miles of mud

Kiwirunner - I suffered loads from shin splints a few years ago. I tried everything. I cured it with a cocktail of regular sports massage, stretching (particularly calves, shins and ankles) and mixing up running surfaces. I do over half my miles off road. I also wear orthotics now.
05/01/2011 at 22:16
Thanks for your responses - i think i'll start wearing the comp socks regularly. Have been really careful to stretch well every day, no niggles yet, so hoping preventitive measures will work.
05/01/2011 at 22:58

AA sorry to hear you're too ill for wine.  That must be some cough.  You've been getting a good mileage in recently (didn't you do a 16 miler last week?) and its better to be ill now that in 6 weeks time.  There's lots going around.  I hope you shake it off soon.  I've had to get an inhaler for the first time in about 3 years to help with coughing immediately after running.

CG Sunday's run is one of my favourite routes.  Not too hilly with a mix of beach, track and a bit of road thrown in for good measure.  Are you following the garmin ready schedule or has it been custom made for you by your coach?  You seem to be doing well on it!  What is your plan for York?  Go out all guns blazing or stick to marathon pace?

Kiwi - compression socks.  I have them and do wear them when I can find them! I won a pair of Skins recovery tights on here last year and I wear those loads. Mainly after running (hence recovery), and in bed (!!!). But, I also wear them under other tights to keep my legs warm during this cold weather.  I've ordered another pair of running ones that should be here soon.   How are you enjoying the P & D book?  Someone on the 3.15 thread has made a spreadsheet for the plan.  Its mega and I've downloaded it onto my computer.  You can find it here hopefully.  If not go on the sub 3.15 thread and its the third post down on page 63.  Steve seems happy for others to use it.

Mr Spoons, CG Off road running.  Thanks to Dave for the comments debating time versus miles.  How do you two tackle off road running?  CG I noticed you have so many 20 mile runs and also 2 runs of 3.5 hours.  Will these be off -oad?  A running buddy has set out a 15 mile, hilly, off-road run for Sunday.  I'll give that a bash and see how long it takes etc.

My equal SuperSixer seems to be quiet.  There's lots of encouragement there for her and I'm hoping she'll get on target over the next few weeks. It'll be interesting to see what her coach tells her in relation to sessions and I'm hoping to pick up a few tips for myself.

My 5 mile recovery was as pleasent as it could be on a cold damp day.  Rest tomorrow I think, followed by a 10mile general aerobic on Friday.

Looking forward to the forum trip to Dubai for some hot weather training.  That was part of the deal right......?

Dubai Dave    pirate
06/01/2011 at 05:28

Your all welcome in Dubai for some warm weather training whenever you want, all you have to do is fly yourself here, book a hotel and I'll come and find you.

I wear compression calf guards when doing speedwork / racing, I find them more comfortable than socks, I also use compression tights for recovery but find that they seem to work better after a long ride than when running.

I was doing intervals last night 10 x 800M off 75 second recoveries and whilst I managed to hit the same times as a month ago they were harder work so the xmas lard is obviously having an effect. Must hide that gin bottle.  One day I'll go on the wagon for weeks before I race and see if it makes any difference, but as someone who races pretty well weekly from October to April that would require living a monastic life during the best period of weather here, so that isn't going to happen,

06/01/2011 at 12:27
Hi Minni - re: off road running: I still go by mileage not time, but I don't worry about speed. If a 20 miler ends up taking 4 hours because I'm trudging across muddy fields then so be it, it's all time on your feet. I then do tempo runs and intervals (mostly mile reps) when I get worried about speed. I do a few LSRs with, say, 15 miles off road, then the last 5 back on the road at marathon pace.
Dubai Dave    pirate
06/01/2011 at 12:37

Have been over on the "Chosen Ones" Sub 3-30 Forum , I too will be interested to see what the coach comes up with. One thing it did remind me of was a piece of advice I receiverd years ago from a grizzled marathoner which was "You can't hope to run 26 miles at 8 min/mile pace unless you can run one mile at 7 min/pace" Ever since then I have always run 1 mile a week before my marathons at MP -1 minute just to be sure!

I find Yasso's a silmilar type of running folklore / myth they are basically a 5K pace set of intervals and I personally find a set of 10 x 800M  with each interval taking 3 mins 30 seconds and a equal jogged recovery pretty easy to achieve but by experience it doesn't necessarily indicate a sub 3-30 marathon.

06/01/2011 at 18:17

Hi Minni - the P.D book is brilliant, I love the way they throughly explain what to do and why to do it!  I'm following the core stability exercises and mixing the training at the moment with the runners world schedule, quite a difference in mileage between the 2 - runner's world has tonight as 4 miles, 1 warm up, 2 brisk, 1 warm down, compared to P&D general aerobic 10 miles.  Think I may go for 6/7, worried about adding too many miles at this early stage..... but hoping to reach the P&D targets within the next couple of weeks.

 Thanks for the link to the spreadsheet, it will be very useful!

06/01/2011 at 18:25
Dubai Dave wrote (see)

Have been over on the "Chosen Ones" Sub 3-30 Forum , I too will be interested to see what the coach comes up with. One thing it did remind me of was a piece of advice I receiverd years ago from a grizzled marathoner which was "You can't hope to run 26 miles at 8 min/mile pace unless you can run one mile at 7 min/pace" Ever since then I have always run 1 mile a week before my marathons at MP -1 minute just to be sure!

Interesting approach, and a nice little psychological pep. Do you incorporate it into a wider interval session, or just chuck it in as and when?
06/01/2011 at 20:24

All very interesting over here (I too have been lurking on the other Sixer sub-3.30 thread.

My P&D book arrived this morning....I now need to find a quiet corner to absorb it, but already the schedule (as kiwirunner mentioned) looks very different.  Need to get my head round it really, as it doesn't seem to have any real mention of intervals (aka Runners World schedule) at all.

5m tempo for me this evening, first proper speed running for ages, averaging 8.08m/m, which isn't great until you add in the two slow downs to catch my breath - none of that next week! 

06/01/2011 at 21:06
I also have the P & D book although I haven't had time to read it all yet

For last year's Abingdon marathon I did 4 x mile reps each week at sub 7 min mile pace. Oh, and I didn't get a sub 3:30 marathon
Edited: 06/01/2011 at 21:07
06/01/2011 at 21:27

Hi Lake ... yes, its all very interesting over on the 'other' thread.  There are lots of valid points being thrown around but unfortunately Kryptonite is keeping quiet.  I  thought that when the SuperSix were chosen they had a target time and the potential to reach that target.  I'm sure that the shorted listed people were carefully chosen and the coaches must be confident that they can reach their target. So, we need Kryptonite to be on there being positive and getting lots of encouragment from her coach.  I just wonder why they didn't give her the sub 3.45 catogory instead of 3.30 if that was a more realistic target.  Anyway, its got us all debating paces!

Dubai Dave wrote (see)

Have been over on the "Chosen Ones" Sub 3-30 Forum , I too will be interested to see what the coach comes up with. One thing it did remind me of was a piece of advice I receiverd years ago from a grizzled marathoner which was "You can't hope to run 26 miles at 8 min/mile pace unless you can run one mile at 7 min/pace" Ever since then I have always run 1 mile a week before my marathons at MP -1 minute just to be sure!

I find Yasso's a silmilar type of running folklore / myth they are basically a 5K pace set of intervals and I personally find a set of 10 x 800M  with each interval taking 3 mins 30 seconds and a equal jogged recovery pretty easy to achieve but by experience it doesn't necessarily indicate a sub 3-30 marathon.

Can that MP -1 minute be run downhill ...  I've tried Yassos in the past but found them too hard after about 3.  But, that will not be the case this year! 

Kiwi - glad you're enjoying the book and yes, that spreadsheet is the King of spreadsheets. I'm logging everything on it.    Kiwi/lake  I was drawn to the P & D schedule because I think it suits my running more.  I'd rather do longer runs and I'm finding is quite easy at the moment. However, that will all change in a few weeks I fear when the sessions start to get harder.

Mr Spoons thanks for the advice re off-road. I'll do the 15 on Sunday and report back.

06/01/2011 at 21:28
Cross post .. Mr Spoons, get reading!
06/01/2011 at 21:46
I can't read all that!

It is a bit odd on the "other thread". To be honest, if a supersix person doesn't do any forum posting and frankly doesn't sound like she has much of a chance of hitting the goal, then did they choose wisely?
06/01/2011 at 21:58

I know, look at me! I would have been ideal!!     Seriously though, it is a lot of pressure and you need to be ahead of the game as far as posting goes.  Hopefully she'll get back on track. 

I read the book cover to cover then have gone back to bits of interest. I keep looking at the nutrition info and think I'd like to make sure I'm getting all the food stuff correct but I haven't actually got the scales out yet....    It does say the odd glass of wine, and coffee, is fine!

Tommygun2    pirate
06/01/2011 at 22:37

Hi Minni

I spoke to Kryptonite (alison) today as we work for the same firm and she said that she will start posting more. She is a loverly person and is really working hard with the schedule she has been given.

We work in a high pressure buisiness which can mean working long hours but I know she is doing the training, just not posting (very difficult for her during the day) as much as some.

I think she is a little nervous about posting due to the negativity she has had from certain quaters but I have reassured her that the more she posts the more support and encouragement she will recieve.

anyhoo it sounds like you are doing well yourself  

06/01/2011 at 22:45
Tommygun, that's great news.  I was going to PM her some works of encouragement but she doesn't have it enabled. I don't think anyone intends to be negative, more of just a lively debate.  You're right about the support and there are lots of people eager to get behind her! 
Tommygun2    pirate
06/01/2011 at 22:52
Ok I'll get her to enable PM's tomorrow and give her another nudge re the posting thing
06/01/2011 at 22:54
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