RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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Dubai Dave    pirate
06/01/2011 at 12:37

Have been over on the "Chosen Ones" Sub 3-30 Forum , I too will be interested to see what the coach comes up with. One thing it did remind me of was a piece of advice I receiverd years ago from a grizzled marathoner which was "You can't hope to run 26 miles at 8 min/mile pace unless you can run one mile at 7 min/pace" Ever since then I have always run 1 mile a week before my marathons at MP -1 minute just to be sure!

I find Yasso's a silmilar type of running folklore / myth they are basically a 5K pace set of intervals and I personally find a set of 10 x 800M  with each interval taking 3 mins 30 seconds and a equal jogged recovery pretty easy to achieve but by experience it doesn't necessarily indicate a sub 3-30 marathon.

06/01/2011 at 18:17

Hi Minni - the P.D book is brilliant, I love the way they throughly explain what to do and why to do it!  I'm following the core stability exercises and mixing the training at the moment with the runners world schedule, quite a difference in mileage between the 2 - runner's world has tonight as 4 miles, 1 warm up, 2 brisk, 1 warm down, compared to P&D general aerobic 10 miles.  Think I may go for 6/7, worried about adding too many miles at this early stage..... but hoping to reach the P&D targets within the next couple of weeks.

 Thanks for the link to the spreadsheet, it will be very useful!

06/01/2011 at 18:25
Dubai Dave wrote (see)

Have been over on the "Chosen Ones" Sub 3-30 Forum , I too will be interested to see what the coach comes up with. One thing it did remind me of was a piece of advice I receiverd years ago from a grizzled marathoner which was "You can't hope to run 26 miles at 8 min/mile pace unless you can run one mile at 7 min/pace" Ever since then I have always run 1 mile a week before my marathons at MP -1 minute just to be sure!

Interesting approach, and a nice little psychological pep. Do you incorporate it into a wider interval session, or just chuck it in as and when?
06/01/2011 at 20:24

All very interesting over here (I too have been lurking on the other Sixer sub-3.30 thread.

My P&D book arrived this morning....I now need to find a quiet corner to absorb it, but already the schedule (as kiwirunner mentioned) looks very different.  Need to get my head round it really, as it doesn't seem to have any real mention of intervals (aka Runners World schedule) at all.

5m tempo for me this evening, first proper speed running for ages, averaging 8.08m/m, which isn't great until you add in the two slow downs to catch my breath - none of that next week! 

06/01/2011 at 21:06
I also have the P & D book although I haven't had time to read it all yet

For last year's Abingdon marathon I did 4 x mile reps each week at sub 7 min mile pace. Oh, and I didn't get a sub 3:30 marathon
Edited: 06/01/2011 at 21:07
06/01/2011 at 21:27

Hi Lake ... yes, its all very interesting over on the 'other' thread.  There are lots of valid points being thrown around but unfortunately Kryptonite is keeping quiet.  I  thought that when the SuperSix were chosen they had a target time and the potential to reach that target.  I'm sure that the shorted listed people were carefully chosen and the coaches must be confident that they can reach their target. So, we need Kryptonite to be on there being positive and getting lots of encouragment from her coach.  I just wonder why they didn't give her the sub 3.45 catogory instead of 3.30 if that was a more realistic target.  Anyway, its got us all debating paces!

Dubai Dave wrote (see)

Have been over on the "Chosen Ones" Sub 3-30 Forum , I too will be interested to see what the coach comes up with. One thing it did remind me of was a piece of advice I receiverd years ago from a grizzled marathoner which was "You can't hope to run 26 miles at 8 min/mile pace unless you can run one mile at 7 min/pace" Ever since then I have always run 1 mile a week before my marathons at MP -1 minute just to be sure!

I find Yasso's a silmilar type of running folklore / myth they are basically a 5K pace set of intervals and I personally find a set of 10 x 800M  with each interval taking 3 mins 30 seconds and a equal jogged recovery pretty easy to achieve but by experience it doesn't necessarily indicate a sub 3-30 marathon.

Can that MP -1 minute be run downhill ...  I've tried Yassos in the past but found them too hard after about 3.  But, that will not be the case this year! 

Kiwi - glad you're enjoying the book and yes, that spreadsheet is the King of spreadsheets. I'm logging everything on it.    Kiwi/lake  I was drawn to the P & D schedule because I think it suits my running more.  I'd rather do longer runs and I'm finding is quite easy at the moment. However, that will all change in a few weeks I fear when the sessions start to get harder.

Mr Spoons thanks for the advice re off-road. I'll do the 15 on Sunday and report back.

06/01/2011 at 21:28
Cross post .. Mr Spoons, get reading!
06/01/2011 at 21:46
I can't read all that!

It is a bit odd on the "other thread". To be honest, if a supersix person doesn't do any forum posting and frankly doesn't sound like she has much of a chance of hitting the goal, then did they choose wisely?
06/01/2011 at 21:58

I know, look at me! I would have been ideal!!     Seriously though, it is a lot of pressure and you need to be ahead of the game as far as posting goes.  Hopefully she'll get back on track. 

I read the book cover to cover then have gone back to bits of interest. I keep looking at the nutrition info and think I'd like to make sure I'm getting all the food stuff correct but I haven't actually got the scales out yet....    It does say the odd glass of wine, and coffee, is fine!

Tommygun2    pirate
06/01/2011 at 22:37

Hi Minni

I spoke to Kryptonite (alison) today as we work for the same firm and she said that she will start posting more. She is a loverly person and is really working hard with the schedule she has been given.

We work in a high pressure buisiness which can mean working long hours but I know she is doing the training, just not posting (very difficult for her during the day) as much as some.

I think she is a little nervous about posting due to the negativity she has had from certain quaters but I have reassured her that the more she posts the more support and encouragement she will recieve.

anyhoo it sounds like you are doing well yourself  

06/01/2011 at 22:45
Tommygun, that's great news.  I was going to PM her some works of encouragement but she doesn't have it enabled. I don't think anyone intends to be negative, more of just a lively debate.  You're right about the support and there are lots of people eager to get behind her! 
Tommygun2    pirate
06/01/2011 at 22:52
Ok I'll get her to enable PM's tomorrow and give her another nudge re the posting thing
06/01/2011 at 22:54
Dubai Dave    pirate
07/01/2011 at 07:02

Hi Folks

Wobbled: no I don't include the 1 mile in set of intervals etc, I just run it. To be honest its just a confidence boost as I run my 1/2 marathons at that pace anyway.  Its a positive reinforcement of what your capable of and you cannot have too many positive mental  boosts along the way to a marathon. So much of running is in the mind particularly when your tired.

Pleased to hear that Kryptonite will be posting on her thread soon, I'm afraid that a certain degree of negativity is always present on these forums but generally the positive out weighs the negative. Anyway people are entitled to their opinion even if you don't agree with it.

Minni: You can get very into nutrition, in my club we have a professional sport nutritionist, she speaks much sense but sometimes life is for living. The one thing i have taken on board from her and my own reading is the idea of lots of small meals through the day rather than a large meal at night, seems to work.

No running for me today, just back from 70 miles on the bike. Friday / Saturday being the weekend here, racing a 8K tomorrow will be interested to see how much pace I've lost over xmas.

07/01/2011 at 09:42

Morning all, just in from 8m recovery in freezing rain - nice!  Especially when my glasses get all waterlogged so I have to run without them - I've got quite poor vision without them and all I see are blobs of colour going past.  Very like LSD I imagine.

Yes, the other sixer thread is very odd at the minute - I imagine Kryptonite is keeping her head down - so would I with some of the discussion on there is as if she is a piece of meat.  I'm still not sure who is supposed to be mentoring her (is it Steve or someone else?) as they are very quiet too. All seems quite unfair & puts me off entering next year actually.  Hopefully Alison will be OK.

DD- the idea of lots of small meals through the day makes good sense, but I find that I quite enjoy the large meal in the evening, whether or not I've eaten during the day (usually not).  My 'reward' for runnnig as much as I do is that I allow myself to eat pretty much what I want, ie. tons of pasta, spag bol, etc  (in the quantities I want).   Having said that, it doesn't work when I'm not running, as I blow up like a balloon.

07/01/2011 at 10:28
lake wrote (see)

Yes, the other sixer thread is very odd at the minute - I imagine Kryptonite is keeping her head down - so would I with some of the discussion on there is as if she is a piece of meat.  I'm still not sure who is supposed to be mentoring her (is it Steve or someone else?) as they are very quiet too. All seems quite unfair & puts me off entering next year actually.  Hopefully Alison will be OK.

I think its Steve but, you're right, there's not much to go on.   I hope she is getting a lot of support via emails etc. 

10.43 general aerobic for me this morning in, average 8.51.  Its mighty cold out there today and we have snow forecast for this evening again

Dubai Dave    pirate
07/01/2011 at 14:49

Minni: I have just pulled my copy of P & D off the shelf, what week are we on?

Lake: I used to love my large evening meal right to a couple of months ago and indeed I still ocassionally indulge, but put simply your body doesn't need a large meal before its going to sleep.  There is a lot of stuff about nutrition in all the IM books I'm presently reading and it goes into quite a bit more depth than any of the running books I've read but there again not many runners go beyond a marathon or 3-5 hours of running, 10 -17 hours of intense effort is a different story. Indeed it was only when I worked out by trial and error a sensible and workable nutrition plan that I cracked the sub 9 hours at Comrades on my 4th attempt.

07/01/2011 at 14:56

Still here with my bad chest and no running at all - the cough is awful and its affecting my energy levels - just hoping its not full blown flu. Have decided to not even think about running until after this weeked now.

Well done to everyone knocking out the miles in the freezing rain.

Nutrition - I really recommend Anita Bean - she knows her stuff, especially on sports nutrition.

07/01/2011 at 15:08

I really didn't see any of the discussion on the other thread as negative. I feel it was opening up a much needed debate about the fact that the competition puts so much pressure on people to fit into certain time categories at a very early stage.

Personally, I am always interested in other peoples training especially when they are being mentored by someone as experienced as Steve and I would have liked to have heard a little more from Alison about how each session was going.

I set off straight from school today into a snow blizzard and it didn't stop at all for the 3 hours and 15 or so minutes that I was running. A very tough off road run today with some big climbs not made any easier by 2 inches of snow. Another 20 done though

I was very amused to be asked on a date by a postman on my last stretch as I waited to cross a road. I had wet hair plastered all over my face and was covered in snow!

Minni - I intend to do most of my long runs off road and not be concerned by pace. I will probably run 2 of my 20 milers on the road just to give me confidence that my legs will hold up.

07/01/2011 at 18:20

hi all, it's the weekend, yippee!  Well done you guys who went running in the rain today, it's freezing out there.  My schedule said rest or cross train, I did a spin session, first one of the year, hoping it will be a good cross trainer to build thigh strength.   Does anyone else use spin as a cross trainer?

 AA - hope you are feeling better soon!  I know how frustrating it is when you are ill and can't get out to train.

 I shall be doing my long run tomorrow morning nice and early, before having a wisdom tooth pulled out, then probably spending the rest of the weekend on the couch.

 Happy training everyone

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