RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

Carter - as I said just stumbled across it at the weekend and as it was Minni that encouraged me to start posting on here I thought I would give it a whirl ....

Anyway tempo run done.

It was hard today as I have never run this fast first thing and I did sortof run out of fuel at the end of the pace section.

I increased the middle pace section from 15mins to 20 mins and was a little slower as a result.

Times for the different splits as follows :

Easy start  - 1.72miles, 16:01mins, 9:17/mile

Pace - 2.71miles, 20:00mins, 7:22.mile

Easy finish - 1.37miles, 11.40mins, 8:27/mile

Interested on thoughts on taking on fuel before fast run first thing in the morning. Need to think about this a little more if I do this again.

Hi Carl

I dont have any thoughts on fuelling either before or after a run as most of the time I do neither. I want us to discuss this with Spoons as I guess it is something we need to start working on as soon as possible.

Good running this morning though.

Actually, I do have thoughts on fuelling. Kebab (can be chicken if you want) and Magners to drink. Spoons ?

They are not good running thoughts

Nice one Carl

Magners won't help that's for sure.....

Carl - did you eat anything prior to your run? I know many people get up and run with no food. Personally (and I am both greedy and fat) I struggle with anything more than about an hour without something to eat first. I have also tried speedwork and weight training on an empty stomach and it is much tougher. However, a piece of toast with butter and marmalade washed down with a mug of tea and I can be running whilst still chewing the last mouthful and good to go for a couple of hours. more than that and I need my porridge...

re: kebabs - chicken kebabs are actually pretty good. Grilled chicken with loads of veg in a pitta bread. What's wrong with that?

Minni wrote (see)

Nice one Carl

Booo. Dont listen to her Carl, you stick with me 

Mmmmm..kebab.....mmmmm

Minni wrote (see)

Nice one Carl

Thanks Minni. 

Spoons - Yes I got up and after sorting the kids out for going to school went out for a run without eating first.

When I have eaten close to a run before I have had some issues so thought it better to go without.  I suppose if I was going for a run at an asy pace this should not have been too much of a problem. But as I was running at pace I guess I was burning too much energy on low reserves. So I did not have enough in the tank to keep pushing through the extra 5 minutes I added to the speed section.

If I do this again and I must say it is good getting the runs in early in the day, I will try taking on some fuel just before I go out and see what happens.

What about LSR's first thing ? And at what point during marathon training do you need to gt your head around taking on board fuel during the runs ? I have never been very good at doing this and figure if I am going for a PB then I need to get this right too.

Carter - no worries on that front. This is my real home for the next few months.

Been doing this on a train and with the dodgy internet connection it has taken me the best part of an hour to put up the last 3 posts.

Ok. So, did an easy session at the gym at lunchtime that included a bit of cardio and some weights. Nice gentle jog there and back and the ankle was ok.

Got to the track this evening and must say I enjoyed it rather a lot. Spoons, I have to confess I was feeling good so did some speedwork. Here are the splits:

Warm up - 15 mins for 1.59 miles @ 9:25

Tempo - 20 mins for 2.68 miles @ 7:26

Cool down - 15 mins for 1.66 miles @ 8:56

2 things jump out at me there.

1) My cool down is way to fast (Carl, I should practise what I preach !). However, I felt really comfortable at that pace. So, the question is do I still have to slow down more or if I am feeling comfortable carry on at that pace ?

2) I didnt realise I could get to 7:26 pace over 20 minutes. I was definitely blowing by the end. Should I slow this pace down (you suggested 7:45) so I can run at a slightly slower pace but for longer ?

All in all a really good session (apart from having spotty young herberts from a running club flying past me when I was running my tempo session !) and the ankle feels absolutely fine

http://connect.garmin.com/splits/259765873

3 mile incline session on treadmill tonight. No adverse reactions it seems. Leg was a bit sore yesterday after the weekend - seems OK after some rest/compression/ice/yadda yadda. Makes me even more intrigued to see how it will respond after 9 slow ones on Saturday!

It seems the majority of us are injured!?

Re: fuel intake, I am inexperienced so I may be chatting rubbish but I've found in the past that anything under 1 hour and I can run on an empty stomach in the morning. Anything longer than that and I too opt for a slice of toast and cup of tea. Have no issues going out straight after eating that and running for 1h 30m+.

Good to hear the ankle's holding up and some speeding running too!!

Cheers Rachel. How was the rest day ?

Nice session CW

Rest day was yesterday (and nice!) Today was intervals in the dark, and tough!! I remember from my last marathon training plan, it took a couple of weeks to adapt to running 5 days...

Rachel - well done for getting out in the dark yet again. I am sure in a week or two we will all have settled into the mix of sessions and the 5 times per week. Hopefully all this hard work will pay off and we will all look back and agree that it was worth it.

It is always hardest just after the Christmas / New Year break.

Morning!

Carl - if I'm doing a LSR I usually wake up 1 hour before, force down tea and porridge, then get dressed. At gives my bowels time to wake up so I go to toilet first. Otherwise I might need a stop during the run....

Re: fuelling on long runs. The best thing is to practice what you will do during the marathon. Therefore the best drink is water because there is always water in races. I don't usually bother with water for runs under 90 minutes. Pre long run I would eat what you would eat pre marathon. Again, during the long run, go with whatever you will take during the marathon. So if you are planning on taking 1 gel per hour during a marathon you probably won't need 1 per hour during long runs as you're running slower but I would take the same gels, perhaps every 8 miles or so. Under 12 miles I wouldn't bother. I'm not a fan of taking too many as they cause GI issues, are expensive and taste disgusting so you get sick of them. Better to get used to burning fat as fuel.

Carter - great session there. That just proves you're faster than you thought. Yes - when the tempo run gets a bit longer it's OK for it to get a bit slower, but then as the training progresses and you get fitter/faster, you may not need to slow down. This is called improvement! I wouldn't worry about he cool down pace too much. It was loads slower than the session and it is likely to be quicker as that's what you are used to running.