RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

I always have porridge oats made with semi skimmed milk and a handful of chopped apricots to sweeten it. I then eat a banana in the car on the way. I only ever drink water in races and have 1 gel at mile 7 in a half and 3 gels (7, 14, 21) in a marathon.

I usually feel sick in races. That's nothing to do with fuel though. Just working hard. 

Carter - I do a hill session every Wednesday. Its a 4 odd mile run with a shortish but quite steep hill halfway in. I do 10 reps with jog down recovery. Will prob start to push the reps up to 12 or 14 as the training progresses. Even though it's short mileage wise I find it quite a tough session.

BigG - feeling hungry on the startline certainly is far from ideal. Fuelling is a very person specific thing and I guess is, as you say, all about trial & error to find what works best. What I have found recently is that the difference between getting it right & getting it wrong is night & day. I did my LSR this morning - had porridge, Bagel with honey & cup of black coffee an hour before the run. Took 2 High-5 gels on the run (45mins in and 90 mins in) with a couple of mouthfuls of water with each gel. Drank approx 400 mls of water throughout the run - taking a mouthful on each mile split. Worked very well for me with no fatigue and feeling very strong at the end of the run. Compare that to 2 weeks ago (16 miler) where I went out on an empty stomach and drank only 100mls of water. At 13 miles I felt hungry, at 14 miles i was lightheaded at 15 miles I was spent and walk/ran the last mile home. A valuable lesson learned! 

Congratulations on your new PB. I know it wasnt as good as what you wanted but its still a PB, on what sounds like a horrendous course. Where was the half?

Do you have another one planned before your marathon?

Retford have a half on the 10th of March (but im not sure how flat/hilly it is)

carterusm wrote (see)

Carl - cracking run sir. I think I need to rethink what time you are going to finish in. You seem to be getting stronger each week.

Carter - no idea where the run today came for. After doing 20 miles yesterday I thought I would plod around today. But I surprised myself.

I am not sure my HM will really help me work out what my MP should be. Having looked into it a bit more today it seems to be as hilly as the one you ran today and even has some off road stuff thrown in for good measure.

There is no getting away from the fact that I was comfortable today.

But can I repeat this on race day and can I keep up the pace for a HM that is not flat. No idea ?

What does it mean for the marathon itself.

Probably that I am getting close to being able to maintain a pace consistently over a long distance.

Does it mean that I should adjust my marathon target. Don't know.

I am running much further and am much stronger than this time last year. So that is good.

But it probably means that a 3:45 target is a realistic possibility. Wheras back in December with a HM PB of 1:48 and a Marathon PB of 4:24 it probably did not look achievable.

We have very similar paces during our speed sessions. You seem to be able to run the longer runs a little slower than me. So the question is what time do you now think you can do in Manchester ?

So the curtain closes on quite an eventful week of running for most of us - topped of with PB's from Carter & BigG!

Highlight for me this week has to be putting the LSR bogeyman behind me & signing off @ 47 miles for the week.

Looking forward to this week

Nice mileage Ricky

Hi sarah - it was Liversedge.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/271718564

http://app.strava.com/activities/40421391

I dont have another half lined up yet before April but I might try and find a flat one ! The only race I have got planned so far is the Grindleford Gallop but I think I will just take it easy on that.

Carl - going full beans at your half may not help you with your marathon target time (due to the nature of the course) but it will certainly show you that you can give it your all for 13 miles. I find it is a great confidence booster (despite me being a bit disappointed with my time yesterday I have taken some positives from it). Are all your training runs pan flat then or do you do some hills as well ? Your marathon PB is 4:24 and you are going to absolutely smash that in Paris, will you be happy with 3:45 or are you after something better ?

Big G - I havent done much with fuelling yet so cant really comment. After speaking to the chap at the local running shop he recommended a High 5 powder that I mix myself which is a 4 in 1 so is mean to sustain me through a long run. I have difficulty eating when running so that is why I have chosen a liquid. I will also be trying a High 5 IsoGel to give me a boost on my run. May have to chose a secluded route should the gingerbread man pay a visit 

Ricky - excellent week with 47 miles and a positive LSR. Onwards and upwards !

Spoons - I'm feeling tired today, to be expected of course, so I think I will have a few days recovery. The legs are aching a fair bit and I have tight calfs. Last time it took me 3 weeks to fully recover so I was thinking an easier week so I can then focus on my LSR on Saturday. My thoughts are that I will just do easy runs and not bother with any speed sessions. Do you think this is ok or should I try and do some speedwork ?

An interesting point you made yesterday about me not tapering for the race. Was this is a deliberate ploy by you and if so what was the reasoning for this ?

For my LSR do I need to introduce some miles at MP yet or leave it a little longer ?

Congrats to Carter and Big G - sounds like some very impressive efforts, despite the grim conditions. Hope you're both feeling good today. I had hoped to go and do a recovery run yesterday after my 14+ miler on Saturday, but went away over night and forgot a crucial part of my kit. Oops. Running the Portsmouth half this week, so will aim for a week that's not too tough, but have absolutely no idea what time to expect on Sunday.

Morning Carter - not surprised your legs are tired today. It's probably all the Magners last night.

re: last week - the half was only ever a training race, not the main goal. So there's no point losing training just to do better at the half. Also, running a half on tired legs gives a better training benefit for the marathon.

re: this week - see how it goes. If you need to stick to short easy running then do so. The main thing is to get recovered ASAP. Maybe try some swimming, stretching, foam rollering, walking, cycling etc etc. Whatever helps you get mobile again. If you feel up to doing a session then do so. listen to your body. Sometimes a really short/light session can help more than just easy running. Like 3 x 200m @ 5km pace.

re: MP in long runs. I've had a quick look at your plan going forward. We still have 10 weeks to go. I would suggest putting MP in something like this:

10 - slow

20 - slow

20 - with 5 MP

22 - slow

10 - slow

20 - with 8 MP

23 - slow

20 - with 12 MP

14 - with 7 MP

10 - with 5 MP

Probably best to split up the MP miles so the 20 with 8 could be 8 slow, 4 MP, 4 slow, 4 MP.

Cheers Spoons, I've updated my plan.

What about the speed sessions, any need to change them ? My thoughts are:

Tempo - aim to run at 7:45 (rather than the 7:03 last week) but just increase the length of the tempo run ? Is there a longest length of tempo run I should be building up to ?

Intervals - run all of these as fast as I can but mixing up the length and quantity of the intervals ? I say run them as fast as I can because last week you were on about increasing the pace anyway.

Re Intervals - Would I benefit more by running intervals in a certain order e.g. week 1 - 8x400, week 2 - 4x800, week 3 - 3x1200 etc or doesnt it really matter ? 

urgh 5 miles in 8.42 pace. Started way too fast with a 8.09 mile - then it started snowing, and it went pear-shaped. Tired still after Saturday's run - is that normal? Now am panicking about even breaking 2 hours in my half on Sunday

Hi Hannah - as this run was meant to be a recovery run following your 14+ on Saturday I would say you ran this too fast. My recovery runs are 10:00 - 10:30.

Thanks Carter - well oops again then! I always thought recovery runs were supposed to be the day after, does two days after still count? How are you feeling after yesterday? I really need some focus for my training? By the way, which marathon are you running? And what time are you aiming for?

Hi Hannah. I'm not sure about a recovery run being 1 or 2 days after to be honest. Regardless, I think it was still too fast unless it was a planned speed session

I'm aching today and my calfs are sore. I am sat at work trying to do some discreet stretches and will go for a gentle walk tonight and hopefully be good to go again tomorrow.

I'm running Manchester on 28/04. My initial target was to break 4:00 hours but potentially I could be looking at nearer 3:45 but will decide nearer the time depnding on how training goes.

What about you ?

Sorry to hear you're aching today, but it means you put in a good effort at least!! I have a place in London, as I had to defer last year with an injury. This will be marathon number 4 and it's always been a bit of a nemesis distance for me, as all my shorter distances suggest I should be running closer to 3.40, but my fastest is 3.53. I'm going to give it a few more weeks of training (curtailed by busy workload and small child) and make a decision in about 6 weeks, if I can run close to 1.45 for a half (have two more in the diary)

Do you have tempo and interval sessions in your training plan ? What HM have you got planned ?