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Carterusm with Spoons

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21/02/2013 at 20:21
Hannah - I am going for 10:00 minute miles. I have yet to master the art of running long and slow so this is the weekend for me ! Time to properly focus
What are your plans for the weekend ? What model of garmin do you have ?
21/02/2013 at 21:00
carterusm wrote (see)
Additional rest day for me today so called into the running shopto stock up on gels. I've got my plan in place for Saturday's LSR including breakfast, snacks to take on the run, water including this 4in1 energy stuff plus my gels. My route is planned for just over 20 miles and takes in a couple of hills. What could possibly go wrong ??!!!

The bleedin bitterly cold weather. Tonight  must go down as one of the coldest nights I have gone out for a run. The wind was so cold and so strong. I was being blown sideways in places. Madness.

21/02/2013 at 21:15

Hi Carter - it's a Garmin 405.

I've got a friend staying this weekend with her two kids so if I do go out it's going to have to be an early one on either Saturday or Sunday. Ideally, I'd like to do 12 or so - had a couple of hard weeks and have entered another HM next weekend, so going for an easier one and my feet are still a little sore. I've got that nasty tickly thing going on in the chest though so hope it's not sign of another damn cold, though wouldn't be surprised as the other half is lurgy-ridden at the moment, even if he is away for work (best place if he's going to be spreading his germs!!)

I know what you mean about the LSRs though. I really struggle running slower than 9.15-9.30 a mile, which is too fast for my LSR. What's your marathon pace going to be if you're doing 20 at 10 min miling? The other thing I struggle with is boredom on long runs. I don't like running with music outside, and I struggle to come up with inspired running routes as I get lost so often having only moved here recently, so stick with tried and tested routes, but it can get really dull?

How do you get around this?

21/02/2013 at 21:39

Hi all,

Brass monkeys out there tonight isn't it? I was child minding today so it was my first evening run for a while and what a night to choose for it. 

I inched closer to my Garmin purchase today, if it wasn't for a six year old hanging off my arm all afternoon I might of got it done, tomorrow there is always tomorrow.

Did a random style run tonight trying to improve my faster pace and get a grip of running slower, both of which I feel I acheived. My recovery miles were slower than I needed to recover but were nearer to the pace I want to do for LSRs so I could of maybe worked harder tonight but I am definitely getting an understanding of pacing. If I repeat this run I'd probably chop the recovery down to half a mile as I was chomping at the bit to get going but tonight I wanted to grasp slow running.

The splits were 8:59(warm up) 8:03 7:27 9:23 7:23 9:29 all told   6 miles avg 8:30

I really didn't fancy it tonight but after the first 100 meters of gasping cold air and muttering expletives I really enjoyed it and it was quite fruitful.

Hannah - Have you tried Audiobooks? Good for slow runs. I am a total convert. As for routes try mapping them out on mapometer, I have saved 3/4 routes for every distance upto 20 miles so I raely repeat runs for weeks on end, it helps give you a sense of your bearings and on really random roots I take a small piece of paper with basic directions. It really helps get your bearings too if you are new to an area.

Are we all agreed that running slow is one of the harder skills to learn? I feel like I've stopped sometimes or I get to a mile marker and my split is exactly like the previous mile BUT I SLOWED DOWN!!!! so frustrating.

21/02/2013 at 22:01

I like running at 10 min miling. It's not hard at all. I also like smashing reps at sub 6 min miling. 

Hannah - marathon running is as much mental as physical. Learn to love the long runs. Audiobooks and music are good but don't rely on them.

Carter - sounds like everything is ready for Saturday morning

21/02/2013 at 22:04
Oirish - running SLOW is definitely hard but the long term benefits are worth it. All the experienced people on the forums talk about going SLOWER to go faster in the actual race. Must be some sort of logic the.

As a night owl I have been used to some cold evenings but tonight was just ridiculous.

Did a interval type session tonight as per Spoons instructions.

1.5 mile warm up, followed by 3 x 1km reps and a 15 mile cool down.

Messed up the settings on my new garmin (must spend a little time sorting this out before Sunday) so did not capture my interval splits as I thought I was doing.

The wu was at 8:45 min/mile pace.

From looking at the outputs I ran the 1km reps at 7:30 ish min/mile pace. A little faster than HMP but slower than a normal nterval session.

The cd was at 8:40 min/mile pace.

So thats my preparation for Sunday finished.

If it stays this cold Sunday will be brutal. Do I need to carb load for the HM like you would for a marathon ? Carter what did you do for your recent HM ?
21/02/2013 at 23:03

Going slow is difficult - I was beginning to master it but have done my last 3 LSRs with company( which is great in that the miles seem to fly by as we chat and great for encouragement/pacing during the final few tough miles ) but.... he's faster than me with a recent 3.17 marathon so he naturally finds it hard to stick to 9:30 and we both really have to focus to keep it close to that.... very easy to drift to 9 m/mls or faster!!

There's your answer Hannah - get a running bud!

Late run for me tonight - working to 8.30pm ...... 0degC when I went out but bright & dry.
I did my hill session tonight, having switched it with my MLR, so I don't run two consecutive speed sessions.
I have to say it seems to have helped me run a much higher quality hill session than I normally would - I ran 16 x 100ish reps with jog down recovery (normally only do 10 x100) and felt much stronger and really up on my toes driving up the hill particularly in the last 6 reps.
The hill is in the middle of a 3 mile route - add in the 16 reps and the garmin showed 5.4 miles total. So I suppose 2.4 miles must have been up & down the hill - 1.2mls of up & 1.2 miles of down)

Carl - I wouldnt carb load for an HM but I would take a few gels immediately before the start and then another one on the run after 45mins or so.. What's your pacing strategy are you going to go out at an even pace and try and run even all race or slightly slower than goal pace for the first few with an eye to building up to a faster finish?
p.s. Carl - that was quite a cool down you did tonight

Edited: 21/02/2013 at 23:05
22/02/2013 at 00:08
Carl - I carb loaded for two days. Not sure it's necessary for a half but it can't do you any harm and its good practise for the big day in Paris. Have you signed up on Garmin Connect yet ? It's great if you like your stats.

Hannah - I have a 405CX. I go into Garmin Connect and set up sessions in there then transfer them to my watch. I find it really useful when the watch beeps at you to speed up it slow down or when the interval is finishing etc. I found I could focus on my running and that in turn improved my sessions

Ricky - glad to see that moving your sessions around helped you have a decent run tonight.

Piroshki - get a Garmin, you know you want to.

Spoons - I'm certainly ready for Saturday already. I've only had one day off and am missing it already ! Glad to see things are going well for you in the pool and the gym. Are you planning a tri or an ultra ?
22/02/2013 at 09:21

Spoons - I guess with me it is breaking old habits on the LSR, last night as I was getting to the mile markers I could guess within a few seconds the split time so I am getting a feel for pace now and maintaining it throughout the split. Sunday we'll put that all to practice hopefully.

I appreciate all the advice offered here and my training plan has been changed dramatically, I doubt it'll ever get me to a 6 min split though!! 

Carl - I do get how it works and the benefits from it after lots of reading the penny dropped and I am determined to master it, what I find is that if my mind drifts and my concentration slips and I speed up to my old pace if I am not careful. I take it as a positive that the hardest thing for me at the moment is to go slower rather than having to search for some speed or stamina. Good luck for the weekend.

Carter - I had a dream about Garmin watches last night   "Piroshki"? I think I might prefer that. Sounds like a Polish lager.

Hannah - I have tried to wean myself off of noise when I am running, thanks to a many times smashed hooter my breathing is awful so it freaks me out when I have to race without one and I haven't heard my snorting noises for a while. Honestly it ain't pretty.

I am just using Audiobooks on my long runs now, it's quite calming and doesn't get the blood pumping like music, I am listening to "I Alan Partridge" at the moment read by Alan Partridge I keep bursting out laughing and scaring passers by which accompanied by grunting and snorting must scare the hell out of people.

All - Gels? Reccomendations? I hate carrying drinks around on runs but for my Marathon in May I can leave them at water stations so that takes care of that but I want to incorporate gels into my runs as well so all advice and experiences greatly appreciated.

22/02/2013 at 09:42

Oirish - experiment, and the sooner the better. It's all well and good me telling you how great High5 gels are but they may make you puke ! Or worse ! I have trouble eating when I'm running, I can feel hungry but struggle to force food down me, so I've gone for some High5 liquid gels. Just try whatevers out there and you should fine one that suits you.

22/02/2013 at 09:49

Today is a shopping day. I'll pick some up and see how I get on.with them over the weekend.

22/02/2013 at 12:19
Ricky - pacing strategy no what's a good question. Have not decided yet. It is going to be bitterly cold so this I a factor. It is a hilly course so a consistent miling pace is not going to be achievable. The first 4 miles or so are are uphill there is some off road stuff a 3/4 mile climb at mile 10 and then the last 2 miles are downhill.

As I have not seen the course it is a difficult one to work out.

I am thinking of starting off slower than HMP, picking it up a little bit when it levels out but not going mad, trying to conserve enough for the climb at 10 miles and hoping to have enough to let loose and go for it in the last 2 miles.

Does this make sense ?

It Is snowing here. Might need some extra layers on Sunday.
22/02/2013 at 12:26
Carl D wrote (see)
Do I need to carb load for the HM like you would for a marathon ?

Just have a good breakfast and eat sensibly the night before

22/02/2013 at 12:35
Ricky W wrote (see)

There's your answer Hannah - get a running bud!

Just remember though that the marathon is as much mental as it is physical and if you're running bud isn't there to help you in the last 10km you will struggle.

22/02/2013 at 12:36
carterusm wrote (see)
Are you planning a tri or an ultra ?

I'm afraid all my plans are top secret. Mostly because I haven't decided yet!

22/02/2013 at 12:39

In a half marathon I usually take a gel around halfway. No more than that though.

22/02/2013 at 17:57
Spoons - you're meant to be setting me a good example, none of this going off to London Town on the lash
22/02/2013 at 21:00
Spoons. wrote (see)
Carl D wrote (see)
Do I need to carb load for the HM like you would for a marathon ?

Just have a good breakfast and eat sensibly the night before

Just been skimming through the RW Aiscs 26.2 threads and the nutitionalist (Ruth McKeen) was advising them to carb load. This was the advice for the day before their recent HM at Dorney Lake.

RUTH MCKEAN wrote (see)

Breakfast: Large bowl of cereal /porridge (60g of dried cereal) with milk & 1 full bagel with generous spread of honey & jam & 200ml glass of orange juice (approx. 130g)

Mid- morning: Nibble on half pack of jelly babies (100g of sweets) and 500ml of low fat milkshake (approx. 120g of carbohydrates)

Lunch: 100g pasta (dried weight) salad, low fat fruit yogurt & large banana & 20ml glass of fruit juice (approx. 120g of carbohydrates)

Mid afternoon: banana sandwich and 400ml of fruit juice & 3 jaffa cakes (approx.110g).

Dinner: 100g of pasta or rice or large jacket potato with usual foods but keep vegetables and meat/fish to small portions. Large glass of fruit juice (300ml) or full sugar diluting juice and low fat fruit yogurt (approx.115g)

Before bed: large bowl of cereal or 3 slices of toast & jam (approx. 60-70g of carbohydrates).

What do you all thin of that ?

22/02/2013 at 21:01

Carter - best of luck with your LSR tomorrow morning.

22/02/2013 at 22:27

Yes carter, good luck! How you can stomach the High 5 stuff is beyond me! I am a real fan of SIS gels, they are just so much more pleasant!

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