RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

Carterusm with Spoons

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08/03/2013 at 08:33

Carl - well done for keeping it going whilst away for work.  I have struggled with that in the past...the temptation of food and the hotel bar usually gets the better of me!

08/03/2013 at 08:42

Carl - I've just realised that the Paris marathon is 4 weeks on Sunday !

08/03/2013 at 09:46

Ricky - looking at some of your runs and stats you do seem to have the stamina to up the pace to the end of your race so it sounds like a plan to me. That was an excellent hill session yesterday.

With my run yesterday it was really noticeable the difference I have felt since joining this thread and heeding Spoons advice. I was so use to running one paced and tired, to finish a three day set of really good runs still buzzing rather than feeling flogged is great.

Even my LSR holds few fears now it is actually slow, it struck me how now all I think about is the prep and the mental side of it rather than my physical ability to do it, that said I have that nagging voice in my head occasionally that says things are going a little too well..........

Spurs looked very good last night 

Carl - 4 weeks eh? wow they are coming around fast now aren't they? I think my marathon is the last of the groups, not sure if that is a good or bad thing?

You did brilliantly to keep it going through your trip. I doff my cap Sir.


08/03/2013 at 13:34

I've got the route map for the South Yorkshire half and mapped it out on Garmin - it's dead pan flat !

08/03/2013 at 19:16

Carter - I'm glad I am not the only closet running nerd mapping routes   

My half and full marathon routes are fairly "undulating" which is a bit like those personal dating ads, you know where they use euphemisms like "Bubbly" when actually meaning "loud when drunk" (A red indian name if ever I 've heard one) Undulating means up and down like a yo-yo

08/03/2013 at 22:02

Think my marathon is same time as yours Oirish? 5th May if do Limerick or 6th of May if I plump for Belfast.

4 weeks to Paris - wow... taper starting soon Carl?!

Well I have had to juggle a little this week - my 2nd MLR of the week is usually a Sat afternoon after work and Fri is a rest day. Family stuff after work tomorrow meant I had to do my 2nd 9 miler of the week tonight - my 5th consecutive session of the week back to back.

Was feeling tired after work & not really too enthusiastic about going out in the wind & rain however off I went intending to run easy/9 min miles'ish.... after a couple of miles I then thought I'd run the rest at MP ... was feeling surprisingly good so moved it up a notch again in the final 2 miles:

9.21; 9.05; 8.48; 8.37; 8.35; 8.25; 8.34; 8.19; 8.01

So a wierd run in that I expected to struggle as I was feeling tired but I felt fresher than expected and stronger as the run progressed.... hence the tendency for it turning into a progressive type run I guess. It was a hilly route also - mostly on (puddle laden) country lanes

Overall the run was around MP I suppose averaging 8.38 pace with avg HR of 148bpm.

09/03/2013 at 12:11
Morning all. I've just completed my second LSR in 5 days. 19.7 miles @ 9:49.
The old legs struggled to start with as I had optimistically chosen a hilly route for today's run. After 3 miles I decided to find a flatter route which I think was a wise move. Breakfast, gels and water are now becoming a normal part of my long run routine and there were a couple of times today where I felt the benefit and the legs pushed on well. I felt I could have done a couple more miles if I had to but the little aches in my legs persuaded me to call it a day when I did. Time for a long soak in the bath......
Happy running everyone or swimming/cycling/coaching/supporting Spoons
09/03/2013 at 12:41

impressive stuff Carter - how many miles in total this week then? 60+?

Rest for me today - 21 to do on my own  in the morning (my pacer is off to spain to play golf)

09/03/2013 at 12:55
Cheers Ricky. I've got another 6 tomorrow and that will be 52 for the week. I dropped my MLR for this week so only had 4 runs. Enjoy your rest day. Wish I was playing golf in Spain
09/03/2013 at 14:49

Sorry - I've been offline for a bit....

Carl - 4 weeks to go??!!! Right - what's the plan between now and then?

Oirish - glad to hear it's coming together for you.

Carter - brilliant well done. Glad you managed to get the LSR done this morning. How are you feeling about things now? More confident? Time to start focusing on next week's half....

Not sure about the golf but I wish I was sitting in a bar in Spain....

09/03/2013 at 14:50

Sorry - nice run Ricky too

09/03/2013 at 18:44
Am I feeling confident ?
For next weeks half I definitely am. To be honest, if I don't knock 5 mins off my PB I will be disappointed. But of course I might just have a bad day.
For Manchester I am confident I will finish. The last couple of long runs have been on tired legs and one of my runs was about 3:40 so comfortable that I can finish.
If I can run about 16 miles @ MP 8:30 then start struggling I reckon I could do the last 10 @ 10:00 which means I would come in under 4:00, which was my original target.
At the moment I'm not convinced I could do the full distance at 8:30. However, I will of course have 3 weeks of tapering so will be on the start line feeling great. So, with all the training I've been doing, plus a taper, plus the conversion of my HM into a FM time (I know this is only a guide) does give me confidence. Then, of course, there is your knowledge and experience that you have been kind enough to give me.
So, overall, I would say I am 95% confident and with the last few weeks training to come I am intending to be standing on the start line telling myself I can run a 3:45.
09/03/2013 at 18:54
Good mileage off 4 runs Carter! IF I get my 21 done in the morn that will top me off at just over 53 mls for the week (my biggest yet) although that's off 6 sessions.

Hope it dries up a bit for the morning - it has rained incessantly here all day

Feet up & Chinese food for me to tonight
09/03/2013 at 19:42
Ricky - the white stuff is coming down here now so glad I did my long run today.

Magners Saturday in the USM house today. I've already scoffed my home made curry, had a couple of creme eggs as a treat and just about to settle down on the sofa with 1 or 2 magners. Happy days. And the mighty reds won again and are now in the play offs. Top day all round
09/03/2013 at 20:10
carterusm wrote (see)

If I can run about 16 miles @ MP 8:30 then start struggling I reckon I could do the last 10 @ 10:00 which means I would come in under 4:00, which was my original target.

That doesn't work I'm afraid. That 10:00 pace can quickly slip to 11:00, then 12:00 and then a walk. You're safer running even 9:00 pace. At the minute my guesstimate would be 8:45 pace but we'll see how the half and MP in long run goes.

10/03/2013 at 00:44

So back home. Landed at Heathrow at 6.30 am this morning and have had such a busy day that it is only now I am sitting down to really catch up on wwhat has been happening over the last week. Took my son to football. Had to deal with the car as the OH had managed to get a puncture and fix it (fair dues) but had done some underlying damage to the wishbone which needed replacing !! Managed to get my 20 miler in and attended a quiz night at the girls school.

Bruno - welcome aboard. As Spoons suggests, if you hold your pace from the start I think you will be fine. Do lets us know how  you get on. I would not worry about the marathon. If you have put in the training, done the Hm, you will be fine. Best thing is to do a decent marathon from a pacing point of view and if the time comes with it great, if not, there will be another one.

Dobster - good to see that you know what is going on and it looks like everything is now under control. Let us know when you think you will be back training and we will help you all the way to race day.

Hannah - good to see you out running again and that you know what is going on. If you are able to run without racing it it might well be worth doing London especially as you cannot defer your place again this year. Keep your options open and see where you get in training. You can always run it at a slower pace from the start and see how you are during the latter stages. You never know you might surprise yourself.

Spoons- good to see you out running again. Must have been so frustrating but then you have enough experince and marathons under your belt to know that taking it easy duing a come back is the best thing. Have you given up on your Spring marathon or are you still thinking of doing it ?

Oirish - good to hear the benefit your running has had from the counsel from Spoons. Its funny we all struggled with the concept of slowing down to speed up in the long run but it really does work. I guess if your HM and marathon are up and down like a yo-yo that a few more hill sessions might be in order over the coming weeks.

Thanks for keeping me amused during the last week. You have a great sense of humour. And you are right, Spurs do look good at the moment so the match tomorrow maty not turn out as hoped. Hopefully the wee fella will not be too upset if the worst happens.

Some good running from you during the week. Did you manage the 20 miles that you had planned for today ?

Dissapointed with the rugby. We gave that one away.

Big G- how is the training going at the moment ?

Ricky - Some impressive runs for you this week. If you can do some of these runs when tired imagine what  a few weeks taper will help you do. When do you make the call on which marathon you do ?I am assuming you will not leave it to the last minute.

Best of luck with the 21 miler tomorrow. I am gald to have my long run done for this week.

Hat's off to you with that mileage for the week. Must check back but do not think I have had a more than 50 miles week yet. I am jealous.

Carter - interesting plan for the South Yorksire half next weekend. I am assuming that it is a fairly flat course as that is some pace to start with. But it looks like you are going for it so good luck with that.

On the subject of taking gels before starting a LSR or race. I know some people do but I have never been convinced of any benefit. If you have fuelled up before the race as normal, this extra stuff is not really going to help - at least that is what I think. I am not sure I would ever say I like taking gels so taking one when the benefits are marginal at best seems daft to me. But each to their own.

Edited: 10/03/2013 at 00:45
10/03/2013 at 01:05

Thre was all this talk of it being warmer this week and people running in sunshine. None of that here in London this afternoon when I got out. It was quite chilly actualy which was initially nice as I was back outdoors but as the run got harder was less nice.

All week I was wondering if I really would be able to do 20 miles on the back of the overnight flight across the pond. So it was always going to be a case of turning up and seeing what happened.

The plan was 3 blocks of 4 miles at or above MP broken by a block of 4 miles at an easy pace.

The first 1.5 miles are up hill, then I decend for a few miles and then at mile 8 I climb again before falling and it being relatively falt with some smaller inclines at various stages.

I took a gel at mile 7 and again at mile 14 and I sipped my lucozade sports drink throughout every few miles.

So the splits were as follows :

1 - 8:08; 2 - 8:39 (hill is steepest through 1.5 miles); 3- 8:10 and 4 - 8:05

5 - 9:00; 6 - 9:05; 7 - 9:04; 8 - 9:02

9 - 7:58; 10 - 7:57; 11 - 7:57; 12 - 7:54

13 - 8:58; 14 - 8:56; 15 - 8:51; 16 - 8:54

17 - 8:02; 18 - 7:52; 19 - 7:51; 20 - 7:45

Overall 2:48:11 which equates to an average of 8:24 min/mile.

This was mcuh tougher than it might seem. I knew that I pushed it a little in the second block of MP 4 miles and wondered what this would do to me in the last 4 miles. I had to dig deep here to grind these last 4 miles out and I enjoyed the last mile because I knew it was the last mile and I was really pleasec with completing the 20 miles.

My body was generally stiffer than it normally would be after 20 miles but this was no ordinary 20 mile LSR. Also having being cooped up in a plane last night I was expecting my body to be rebelling a little.

I have limited time tomorrow. On a train heading for Liverpool at midday and need to look after the OH and make sure homework etc is all complete. I am going to try and get a few mile recovery run in even if it is only 3 miles.

Weekly mileage so far is down at 38 miles having run less than I normally would with time being limited on the treddie. Hopefully that will not have any bearing come race day.

10/03/2013 at 06:38
Wow Carl - impressive LSR session... Those 3 blocks of MP were quick - substantially faster than ur intended MP of 8.15? Impressive you ran last 4 at such a good pace on tired legs! Looking v good for Paris!

Off out on mine in about 30mins - just letting the porridge & bagels settle! Solo this morning so have the latest two 'marathon talk' podcasts downloaded at the ready.
Unsure whether to run any MP this morn - might just run slooow & take advantage of being on my own & going at my own pace rather than be pushed along by my faster running bud. Will see how it pans out. Did my Friday MLR at MP in any case. Mmmm decisions decisions!
10/03/2013 at 07:49

Fantastic splits there Carl, that has got to have you beaming? That would of been a top run at anytime but considering your week you've had and the build up to it that makes it all the more impressive.

Agree with you on the rugby, we just don't convert posssesssion to points, when we were well on top at half time I did say we haven't scored enough. The odd thing is I don't think we've played that badly if anything the thing that cost us against England is a refusal to play the conditions and play some 10 man rugby and as for Scotland I'll never be able to explain that until the day I die!

Still I picked a good year not to attend all the games.

I am out for my LSR in about 20 minutes, what a saga this has been, my plans have changed halfa dozen times in the last 48 hours. A different day, a different route and  a different running partner.

Silky planning as always.

Carter - Play offs eh? Back to the big time fingers crossed. You have to say it shows what a total legend Cloughie was when you look at what the club was before and after him.

I have to agree with Carl's summary, we may not all be where we want to be running wise at the moment but all those poor injured souls are back on the up so you have to take the positives I think and good times are ahead all around. (Please note pre LSR enthusiasm. Positivity subject to change)

Anyhoo good luck all and Happy mother's day,  I have to tell you the very real story of Mother Oirish serving up 9 beautifully presented and lovingly prepared Sunday roasts for all the family. There they were laid out for collection on the kitchentop, beautiful circles of steam and gravied loveliness, "Don't be shy" she said "Help yourselves to whatever one you want".

After we all hesitated and exchanged confused looks it fell on me to point out she hadn't actually used any plates. Somehow she had served it all up straight onto the counter!!!

You know when you spill crumbs and with your hand level with the work surface you swipe the crumbs into it? Well that was pretty much how we got around it. A proud day.

10/03/2013 at 10:14

Oirish - Brilliant!

Carl - fantastic well done. You may want to think about tweaking your 8:15 marathon pace a bit. 8:05 sound about right?

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