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Carterusm with Spoons

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11/04/2013 at 23:46

Carter - I have entered the Bupa 10k in London which is on the May bank holiday at the end of the month. Did this last year and was dissapointed to be beaten bu Mo Farah  when I completed it in just under 50mins which is my PB. I am hoping to get under 45 mins this year.

I might do the Oxford 10k in the middle of May as a warmup. Not done this for a few years but my 9 yr old boy wants to run the junior race next year having come and watched me before when he was a little younger. Am planning to go out running with him in the summer.

11/04/2013 at 23:47
Ricky - nearly taper madness time then !!

I have to say I'm not feeling too confident. Unless there is a radical improvement then it's not going to happen. There is still 2 weeks to go and I will give it every chance but I'm also being realistic.
11/04/2013 at 23:50
Carl - don't you fancy an ultra ?

Oirish - what does run Britain say about Robertstown Liversedge HM on the difficulty factor ?
11/04/2013 at 23:55

Carter - have never really considered an ultra before. Why do you think I would fancy it and how the hell do you train for it ?

Really gutted to hear about your continuing niggles. It will be a really tough decision to make and no matter what we say you must listen to your body. If running the race is going to do furtrher damage or prolong the recovery then you would be better off not doing it. As you say you will give it every chnace and we will support you whatever the decision.

I am really tempted to sneak out for a run tomorrow evening. I am surprised how quickly I have recovered from the effects of Sunday. Even my hammy is not feeling too bad.

11/04/2013 at 23:56

Spoons- Was always planning the 10k. I have never really trained for them before but it is just like running a tempo session so it must be worth a good go.

12/04/2013 at 00:05
Carl - you enjoy running. You enjoy just getting out and spending time on your feet. I just get the feeling you would enjoy going off-road out on the trails, enjoying the peace and quiet, the views, long runs etc. Training ? Lots of slow steady miles, a bit of walking/running, back to back long runs. And when one gets to a certain age one's speed starts to disappear !
12/04/2013 at 00:24

Ricky - some good solid training coming from you at the moment. Keep it up. Suggests a great time could be on the cards if it all comes together on the day.

On the matter of pacing, do not get fooled into thinking that your chosen MP is easy as it is so much slower than your HMP. 26.2 miles is so much further than a HM and while that is me stating the bleedin' obvious, holding a sub 8:30 pace for 20+ miles is going to be tough. Particularly if it is warm on the day.

It is nornal during the tapering time with you running less miles to think about going faster.

Having run your recent HM steady paced all the way round and feeling that there is more in the tank, it would suggest that the pace you are talking about is possible.

My advice would be to start a little conservatively, and get the first couple of miles out of the way. Keep something in the tank for the second half. It is easier to get some time back later on if you have conserved your energy. If you start off too fast you run the risk of bonking around 18 miles.

If I had not gone into last Sunday knowing that my hammy was likley to give me a little jip, I would have started slower to run a negative split. As I knew it was going to give me trouble I went off faster and basically ran until it gave up. I never expected to get as far as I did but it was this revised strategy that got me the sub 4 hours.

Try not to put too much pressure on yourself between now and race day. Get some MP miles into your runs and see how it feels. Have a gold / silver / bronze approach such that on the day depending on how you feel you can adjust to something you have thought about rather than trying to change it while running which is harder to do than it seems.

I hope this does not come across as being negative as it is not meant to be. Remember the most important thing is to enjoy the experience and not stress about the time.

12/04/2013 at 00:33

Oirish - you want to stay away from niggles and viruses. They are not what they are all cracked up to be !!!!

Halstead is considered by most to be a hilly are hard marathon so pacing will be a challenge. Very important that you take it steady from the start and maybe go slower than you feel you should as if there are alot of hills in the second half they will zap the energy out of your legs. If you set off too fast with a fixed pace in mind you will be putting yourself under stress when you hit the hills in the later miles.

I would have thought fuelling during the race will be very important too as you will be burning more by adjusting your pace with the terrain so bring some extra gels.

You have done some decent training and are well capable of a decent time.

It might as Ricky suggests not be the marathon to get so fixed on securing a fantastic time and just try and enjoy it and get a really decent time.


12/04/2013 at 06:31
Morning all.
I I think my original gut feeling that a sub 4 will be credible enough at Halstead and a good base for the rest of the year is the way ahead. I've done a fair bit of hill training deliberately in preparation, it's next to impossible not to around here, to the point I go looking for them now. Call yourselves hills pah!!
The way I look at it is half of my marathon is all downhill so that's 13.1 miles taken care of before I start. Obviously the truth is a little more complex than that but running is as much a mental battle as physical so I'm not going to let it intimidate me.
By the way feel free to quote this alll back to me on the evening of May 12th as I slip in and out of consciousness
On the subject of Ultras, I have a friend in the States who next year is running from L.A. to New York and I may well be going out to run a section with her for a week so an ultra is my next challenge.
She is being trained by a Marathon De Sable winner which is pretty hardcore. I've seen pictures of her and she makes Mrs.Oirish look like a chocolate box picture of a fluffy kitten.
12/04/2013 at 07:14

Oirish - sub 4 sounds very credible. I know people that have run it and there times weren't that much slower. 

Ricky - only you will really know how MP feels. It needs to feel easy though as Carl says 26.2 is a long way and believe me it won't feel easy after 3 hours. That said, your half time and training indicates your goal is very achieveable. 

Carl - a couple of months of training and racing shorter distances will make you a much better runner. The best runners periodize - they do a spring marathon, a summer of 5km / 10km, an autumn half and a winter of XC.

12/04/2013 at 07:57
Oirish - what can I say. Pure hardcore. Seriously impressed.
12/04/2013 at 22:09
When has everyone gone today ?

It was chucking it down with the wet stuff tonight so I decided that I did not need to go out in that. Have got family stuff going on tomorrow so will go for my short recovery run on Sunday.

Carter - how you feelin' today ?
12/04/2013 at 22:26
Hey Carl. I haven't bothered going out for a run today, will probably go out tomorrow. I've been watching the golf all evening with kebab and magners, but don't tell Spoons.
How are your legs and feet feeling now ?
12/04/2013 at 23:21

I've only just sat down - day from hell workwise & only got in from my run @ 10.30pm - hi viz gear back in action.

10 miler @ what felt like MP... avg pace for run turned out to be 8.26...... AVG HR was only 148 compared to LSR's @ 9.10/9.20 pace which typically show an AVG HR of 143. So quite pleased with this and thinking now that 8.25 pace might well be a suitable MP.

Work in the morning, taking the youngest for a swim in the afternoon & then Chinese food in the  evening in preparation for last LSR on Sunday morning

13/04/2013 at 07:11

Carter - is the plan to do the marathon but just jog round then? it's a real disappointment but it makes sense. Also you are far more likely to enjoy your first marathon if you start really slow, possibly even with planned walk breaks from the start. And you will get a fitness benefit and endurance training for your ultra dreams. Plus your recovery time will be much quicker. 

re: the 10km I would say yes you can race it if you are taking the marathon slowly.

The only issue of course is how the knee holds up.....

13/04/2013 at 08:47
Spoons - if the knee starts hurting after a couple of miles during the marathon, as it has during my last few runs, then it will be hard going to get round. At the moment, I am leaning towards not running Manchester, get my knee sorted and aim for an autumn marathon. Bigger picture and all that. From what the physio said I'm probably going to have to take a break from running in order to get it fixed properly and quickly. And I'm not really the sort of person to just run my 'A' race for the enjoyment factor, I would need to race this one, although do understand the value of turning up and getting some race day experience. But the quicker recovery time the better for me so I might just bite the bullet sooner rather than later.
13/04/2013 at 08:53
The 10k question was me sat yesterday and feeling a bit sorry for myself that I might be missing Manchester. I was looking at my races for the rest of the year and trying to fit in some 10k races, marathons and ultras and work out which were a, b & c races. It just means I'm going to have to change things around as I think my A race would become Chester, if I don't run Manchester.
13/04/2013 at 09:17


I am so gutted for you. To have done so well in training and then face this is a rough deal! 

It sounds like doing Chester instead might be the better option long term....but I really share your pain!  On the positive side, a friend of mine DNS Manchester last year as she also had knee problems and she's come back so strong and is lookingto do it in a incredible time this year, so this is only a temporary set back! 


13/04/2013 at 09:39

Carter - gutted indeed is the word. However - think positive and all that - you've got a great HM PB. You've been through a fun experience. You're training will not be wasted. I would take your physio's lead and do similar to what I have done this spring. Take some time off running, do loads of cross training and then slowly build up the running again. You will come back fitter and stronger for it. I'm still a lot slower than I was but I'm really enjoying running again which is the most important thing. I'm also niggle free. I'm still holding myself back a bit as I am desperate to do more but every week I release the reins a bit more.....

13/04/2013 at 21:47

Carter - a real kick in the teeth that  ..... but taking the positives you knocked out some great training, produced a stonking HM PB and will be all the better for it once the knee sorts itself out. Plenty more marathons mate.

I'm tempted to do TQ10K (Titanic Quarter 10k) on 21st April (same day as VLM) which is 2 weeks before my marathon. What do you folks think? Too close to risk injury or a good sharpener for the Mara?

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