RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

Carterusm with Spoons

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16/04/2013 at 08:58

Spoons - I've finally made the decision that I wont be running Manchester. Obviously, I'm very gutted about it but I need to get my knee sorted as soon as possible. I just wanted to thank you for your help in my training over the last 4 months. I'm sure I would have carried on running all my training runs as fast as possible without your advice. But, with your help I found myself in really good shape, for me, and ready to run a good time at Manchester. Everything you have told me I can take with me in my future training so I'm now going to target Chester in October.

Anyway, cheers for your help, I do appreciate it and I'm sure all the others on this thread do to  

16/04/2013 at 13:59

Hi folks,

Dreadful news re marathon in Boston attack. Just so hard to comprehend an attack on such a joyous occasion.


More advice needed- doing first marathon this weekend, VLM.

Since I did my last 32 k run on Easter Monday I have had a bad time training wise.

Did a bit the week after the long slow run but was away for 5 days including the weekend for a work conference.

Then last week-early week was ok, I did my scheduled runs but since Thursday when I did a 5 k run, I have got a nasty cold that spread to my chest. I started wheezing etc on Saturday. I am now on antibiotics and starting to improve so hopefully will be able to take my place on Sunday.

Any thoughts or suggestions on what if anything I should do at the tail end of this week if I start to feel a bit better?

I don't want to have not ran at all between last Thursday and this Sunday with the event itself.

Still unsure what time I should aim for. My half times since the New Year have been 1:42, 1:43 and 1:45.

20 mile race times have been 2:46 and 2:52 at the Ruislip 20 miler. I was much more comfortable at 2:52 then at 2:46. Then last long slow run of 3:10 for 32 k, where I didn't push myself at all.

Amy suggestions on what I should aim for?


Many thanks

16/04/2013 at 14:29

I have just come back from the Physio and she was very good.  I think I've basically been doing the correct stretches, although she has added another one that I'll have to ask my wife to help me with (I have to kneel with someone holding my heels and then let myself fall forwards in a controlled way).

The physio did recommend getting a sports massage done so I'll look into that.

The physio diagnosed the issue as "hamstring enthesopathy", and recommended getting some Ibuleve gel as well to work into where the hamstring meets the knee.  I haven't been taking Ibuprofen and she recommended against doing so.  She did want to tape up my leg, but she couldn't as my legs were too hairy and the tape wouldn't stick 

Importantly, she didn't tell me not to run so all-in-all I'm happy.

16/04/2013 at 20:52
Big G - that all sounds very encouraging. Really pleased for you.
16/04/2013 at 21:32

Big G - good news. Why not wax the legs?

Bruno - just a couple of easy 2-3 milers to wake the legs up. You can always incorporate a few strides but no more. Sub 4 sounds very doable. Around 3:50 - 3:55 pace?

16/04/2013 at 21:58
Bruno - the most you should do is 2-3 miles really slow just to get the legs moving. You cannot make up for misses runs this close to race day. Doing anything too fast will tire you with Sunday around the corner.

I know from experience that flu that requires antibiotics will have taken a lot out I you and whatever pace you think you could have sustained before the flu will have been impacted more than you think.

With this in mind I would start with a few slow miles to get everything moving and get rid of the sluggish feeling that you will have. Try and settle into a comfortable pace and so not be a slave to the Garmin. See where you are at halfway and think about keeping it steady to mile 20 or so. If you have much left you can pick up the pace but do not stress if you cannot get much more out of a tired body.

You will be fine. .
16/04/2013 at 22:06

Bruno - your easier 20 ml race was @ 8.36 pace so this would suggest you may be able to run 3:45 if you are feeling good on the day. If you felt fairly comfortable at the closing stages of your 2:52 20miler I would suggest you should be running 8.36pace for your marathon... if you are nervous about sustaining that then drop the pace to 8.45 which (similar to spoons suggestion) will bring you in around 3:50.
Post your race no. up so we can track you on Sunday morning!

Big G - looking good.... borrow Mrs Big G's ladyshave

Carter - must be a very "flat" feeling after making the decision to pull out. However you seem to have taken it on the chin and good to see you planning for your Autumn marathon.

Switching my runs around this week - my normal tempo Tuesday of 6 miles now moves to Sunday in the form of my 10k race so I did my usual Thursday speed session today instead and will then do my tapering LSR of 14miles on Thursday instead of Sunday.

So.... treadmill intervals tonight - 0.5ml warm up @ 9.20 followed by 8 x 0.3mls @ 6.40 with 0.2ml recoveries @ 9.20.. that took me to 4.5mls so ran the final 0.5ml @ 7.04 to make up the 5mls for the session.

16/04/2013 at 22:10
Physio for me tonight and he agreed the best thing for me now is a few weeks without running. The ITB is not loosening znd he said there was a bit of fluid around the tendon too. It's all well and good going for these short runs and doing the stretches and strengthening exercises but I'm not giving the ITB a chance to mend. Rest is, apparently, the best thing for this type of injury. So, no running for a month. I've got more stretches to do that should hopefully loosen and stretch the ITB and stop it from rubbing up against whatever its rubbing against and causing the pain. The plan now is to get the old mountain bike out (I'm now wishing I hadn't sold my road bike), get myself down the gym, take the dog on lots of walks and stretch, roll and strengthen the legs. We will reasses the situation in 4 weeks time. I am extremely not looking forward to at least 4 weeks without running
16/04/2013 at 23:55
Hi Carter, thankyou for your good luck for sunday. I thought I would come on here to wish you good luck to, but then read your post above. Im so sorry that you will not be able to run in Manchester. I just hope that the ITB settles down soon and your back up and running shortly.

I was going to see if you fancied being part of our RW team for TR24, last week in July. So far we have 5 of us and would like another team member, if you fancy it?

Have you thought about York marathon in October...they have opened up some additional places?
17/04/2013 at 07:01

Carter - ellyptical trainer and rower are good alternatives. 

17/04/2013 at 07:45

Thanks all for your suggestions. I was thinking that was what i should aim for so I am glad to have my idea confirmed as being about right. Starting to feel better now so hopefully should be clear by Sunday with the only down side being the bad last 10 days of prep. Sorry to hear Carter about your misfortune, very disappointing. 

I will take it handy early on as suggested becuase like you said the infection might have taken more out of me.

Will post the race number up after collection at the excel.

Thanks again to all

17/04/2013 at 08:31

Morning all

Carter - Such a shame that Manchester isn't happening for you this time around, I too am not great when I'm not running and it must be such a downer right now but with a shift of emphasis with your training and I totally believe that you'll re-group and re-focus and comeback fighting.

An autumn marathon than a further PB on the flats of Manchester this time next year what do you reckon?

My training is all a bit up in the air, Sunday's LSR took more out of me than previous runs, I'm putting it down to the poor prep I did so no running for me yesterday either instead I went an donate blood and did an 8 mile walk to shake out my legs, I hope to get out today but Mrs Oirish's brother finally passed away last night after three weeks on life support so God only knows what the day will bring.

Following on from burying my first wives brother last week I just feel totally emotionally exhausted, the pair of them hadn't racked up eighty years between them an leave behind six kids. I think I need to run to feel some normality. You know it's been a bad week when losing a pint of blood and it's the only thing that has made you feel good

Sorry to unburden on you all.

On a more positive note life goes on and we have Bruno in the VLM on Sunday. I hope too still be there cheering you on and I can't think of a more life affirming event to perk me up.


17/04/2013 at 08:48

Oirish - I've had my time of feeling sorry for myself and now plan to hit the gym for the next few weeks, take the dog for plenty of walks in the peaks, maybe a bit of swimming etc. I'm feeling more positive about it now and as you say I'm targeting Chester in October and maybe Manchester next year, oh and hopefully a couple of ultras this summer too !!

You've certainly had a hard few days of it so no wonder you feel exhausted mate. Going for a run might just help clear your head a bit as it sounds like you will need to be there for Mrs Oirish over the next few days. You dont have to apologise to us for unburdening such news, we are here to try and give you some support over what will be an emotional time for the Oirish's. When I'm having a rough time I always find a hard long run helps. And the odd beer or two always helps !

Take care mate, you know where we are

17/04/2013 at 13:11
Popped over to Ireland for a few days with he kids. Should have brought my wet weather gear as it is really shocking out there today. Hoping to get a break in the wet stuff so hat I can get a few miles in.

Carter - really pleased with how positive you have been responding to this setback. It is never easy to accept the inevitable and you really did try and give yourself every possible chance but if the knee was not getting any better then rt is the only option. Most running injuries respond to a break from running. You have readjusted your goal for this year and can now focus on other things to keep the fitness levels up while giving the knee a chance to recover.

Spoons can no doubt give you some advice on how to build up very slowly when you do get back out there just as he had to do over the last few months.

And of course we will all still be here to give you advice and support now that we are experts !!!!!!!!
17/04/2013 at 13:29
Oirish - that is one tough week you have had and sounds like it is not over yet. Your LSR last weekend was never going to be easy in the circumstances. Just goes to show how finely tuned your body needs to be to run well.

Going for a run might help clear your head for a while.

I enjoy running as it is my time and for that period when I am out I can forget about everything else.

Don't worry about unburdening. We have all got to know each other a little more over recent months and will support you through what will be a very emotional tans exhausting time. This is your equivalent of a pre race injury so do not stress about running. Run when you can and when you feel like it. If you miss a day, you miss a day. You have done some great training and will be fine come your race day.

If you do make London on Sunday enjoy it.
Cheerful Dave    pirate
17/04/2013 at 14:03
Carl D wrote (see)

You will be fine. .

Bruno, listen to Carl, because just a few short weeks ago he was posting much the same as you are with a severe case of taper madness and we all said he would be fine.  He was fine, and some!

Carter, sorry to see you've had to pull out.  4 weeks isn't too long really, if you can do a bit of cycling, rowing, even long walks you won't lose much of the speed & endurance you've gained in the last few months.  The first run will feel like you're running through treacle, but the second one will be much better.  It's not worth rushing back with ITB.

17/04/2013 at 18:31
What a wild day it was out there today. Our Irish base is a harbour town on the south coast and the wind was something else. There were times it felt as if I was not making any headway and as I ran near the mouth of the river that opens to the sea I was struggling to stay upright.
But it was great to be out and running on country lanes overlooking the harbour and down by the water. Really cleared out the cobwebs.
Did 4.25 miles at 8:20 min/mile pace. It was an undulating run and the legs still need a bit more recovery time but again no issues with the hammy so am really pleased.
Going down to Kerry tomorrow to visit my brother and for the kids to meet their cousins.
Planning another run on Friday and then Sunday. It will be strange running the same day as VLM as for the last two years I have been there.
17/04/2013 at 20:08
Carl - I would gladly swap your windswept run for my first session at the gym tonight.....zzzzzz
17/04/2013 at 21:20
There was something about it being different that made it enjoyable. These are gale force winds and if in London would have made it really unpleasant. But watching the waves crash down in the harbour, different scenery, the tractor going by loaded with manure all combined to make it far more interesting than the g coils ever be. Enjoy.
17/04/2013 at 21:51

Oirish - so sorry to hear of your loss(es) .. condolences to you & the family. Awful for the kids left behind - so sad. Horrendous time for you all - maybe some running might be a good distraction in a way.

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