RW Forum Six – Sub 2.50 Kier with Parkrunfan

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08/01/2013 at 08:31

Thanks PRF and YD. Reassuring to see that you are both doing similar training to me. Another decent mileage week coming up for you then YD. I can see how BR and Hilly slowed you down on Boxing day PRF! 

8m with 8x 50 - 100m uphill strides for me this morning. Trying out a new pair of shoes - Nimbus 14s. Lighter but definately not as much padding. I might try to use the 12s for the LSRs and use these ones on the shorter runs. 

On the positive, all signs of groin chaffing have now disappeared. Smearing my arse with enough vaseline to have George Michael hanging on like a yo-yo seemed to do the trick. 

08/01/2013 at 10:28

Good start to the day Keir, and a Vaseline / George Michael reference for good measure, nice. You need to be careful though, when you and George pitstop mid run, people might assume you are cottaging!  

Anyway, back to training, I wouldn’t be surprised to see some elements of our training converging as the campaign progresses.  After Brass Monkey Half in a couple of weeks I am going to focus more on MP tempos. 60 miles per week is a good number for me, but I hope, once the intensity of the tempo runs reduces I can run a few more miles each week, though I am not going to push it.


In other news the recent rumours of an autumn Marathon in York have proved to be correct it has been officially announced this morning - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-20938482

Potentially excellent news, depending on the quality of the organisation etc, but the whole area is flat so a fast course could be on the cards. I hope the York Knavesmire Harriers are involved somehow, they have an excellent track record with the Brass Monkey Half.

08/01/2013 at 10:40

Just don't wear your George Michael spikes for cross country races.  They're the ones that tend to get sucked off in bogs.

08/01/2013 at 10:44
Keir wrote (see)

The up hill strides I read about a while ago, but Badbark (from sub 3.15 but who lurks here) reminded me of them. I think he had a link to an article about their benefits. 

Here's the link about the hill sprints - http://running.competitor.com/2013/01/training/steep-hill-sprints_9050

Great fun to do as just as it gets tough you stop and walk back down the hill.

08/01/2013 at 10:59

YD - Very interesting indeed regarding the York marathon. Would be great to have a flat course so close to home.

08/01/2013 at 11:15

Interesting that York is going to be on the Saturday. Should be good news for you Njord. You could run it as a warm-up then drive down to Abingdon for the Sunday!

Thanks for the link Badbark I must admit I am not doing them that scientifically. But when I run my 5 or 8 mile circuit, every little rise (between 8 - 10) I try to sprint up at 95% effort. I don't really like strides normally although I do find them more pleasant when running round the school field in the summer. But the 'stride when you reach a hill' approach makes them more like an enjoyable farklek session.

Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the George Michael thing. That was a careless whisper. 

08/01/2013 at 11:21
Mr V - check out the Castles marathon on the Run Northumberland site (sorry cant link from my phone). 27th October - I've decided to enter it instead of the TM thus Autumn. I reckon it'll be quite flat.
08/01/2013 at 11:36

Keir -  Seems official date is Sunday 20th. Thoguht a Saturday seemed quite odd!

Minni - Thanks for that - someone mentioned it to me yesterday. It could be an option but York is really appealing and my family is from the area so even easier for me to get to!

08/01/2013 at 11:44

Ah, my mistake Mr V. I quickly scanned the Abingdon website to see when that was and forgot to double check the year! 

08/01/2013 at 19:21
Yellow card for Phil pub....made me chuckle though.

How is the first week back in the real world of training/work balance going then Keir??
08/01/2013 at 21:12

A colleague mentioned they had their running kit with them today, so whilst they set off early and did the 3m loop, I caught them up after 1m and ran the 5m loop. Only 100metres behind them when we got back to school, but it was a bit of an unplanned 75-80% effort. 

08/01/2013 at 22:43

Thanks for that link Badbark, I agree with what the article says about getting a quick return on your effort when doing hills. They are a bit like strides and core work in that I know they are good for you but don’t do enough of them!

Keir, you must be feeling good if you are turning lunch time pootles into burn ups!

15+ miles for me today with a good tempo run tonight. 10k in 37:40, 6:03/m, HR average of 163 bpm which is 83.6% HRmax.
If I am going to run a sub 80 half in a couple of weeks I need to be going through 10k in just under 38 minutes feeling pretty comfortable. So with that in mind, tonight’s session suggests it’s on, bliddy happy with that

09/01/2013 at 08:07
Very nice going there YD. Are you having a bit of a cut back week leading into BM?

Bad night with the kids waking so I reset the alarm and rather than run, got in some catchup sleep. Will try to run later but won't stress about it.
09/01/2013 at 10:37

Duplicate post

Edited: 09/01/2013 at 10:38
09/01/2013 at 11:06

Yes, I will keep all my runs easy in the week leading up, and have an extra day off, so overall mileage will drop a bit but not dramatically, maybe a 50 mile week as opposed to a 60 mile week. That should leave me fresh enough to have a good crack at the sub 80.

Hard luck on the disrupted sleep.

09/01/2013 at 11:47

PRF - I have slightly altered my plan for the next two weeks leading up to the 'magic 8 weeks' previously discussed. Here is the day by day detail (w/c Monday 14th Jan). Does this look ok to prepare me for the 8 weeks without knackering me?

Mon - 5m easy
Tue - 14m MLR (final 4m @ 7:30, 6:40, 6:10, 5:50)
Wed - 5m easy
Thur - 8m inc uphill strides
Fri - 11m inc 5m@85% (MP effort)
Sat - 5m off road
Sun - 18m LSR Hilly

Mon - 5m easy
Tue - 8m inc uphill strides
Wed - 12m inc 7m@85% (MP effort)
Thur - 5m easy
Fri - 12m MLR (final 4m @ 7:30, 6:40, 6:10, 5:50)
Sat - 8m off road
Sun - 21m LSR Hilly

Edited: 09/01/2013 at 13:40
09/01/2013 at 16:43

This thread has been great reading - thread joke lead by PhilPub so far.

I've been looking through for ideas and sessions, and last night gave a progressive run a go. I changed the pace a little, starting off really slow, increasing pace every 1/2 mile up to half marathon pace. Surprisingly, I found the session enjoyable, and running sub marathon pace felt really comfortable.

I ran it over a fairly flat 11m route finishing around 6:15 min/m pace which is the limit I have put on speed for now due to recovery from injury. I would look to finish under 6:00 when deeper in training.

Just to be clear, what are the physiological benefits of this type of run. Lets say I will be runnig one MLR and one Tempo run weekly during the magic8 week period - would the progressive run best replace the MLR (currently tend to run them at constant pace 12-15miles) or the tempo (10mile session, 6m @HMP)?  Cheers.

09/01/2013 at 21:46

Why the surprise at the enjoyment factor Also-ran?

Anyway, the general idea of the 10 mile progressive tempo is the pace of the run averages out at MP, so the physiological benefits won’t be dramatically different to running a 10 mile MP tempo at a flat pace, I wouldn’t have thought.  There may be more lactate in the blood at the end of the run as you wind the pace up beyond MP, however, you might start the run slower than MP, so the lactate might build up slower in the earlier part of the run, so it could balance out over the run. Not 100% sure to be honest. I do know it’s a great upper aerobic workout the gets you fit though.

I intend to use both the 10 mile progressive and the flat paced MP tempo in my Marathon campaign, more than likely as part of the MLR. However, once I start adding in MP to long runs, the MLR will probably just be run steadily or have some other kind of workout in there.

I think the benefit of mixing up the two for me; will be in the variety of workout I get, yet building on the same area of fitness. Flat MP runs will help me get used to race pace and the rhythm of it, learning to run as economically as I can at that pace. Whereas progressive runs are all about working through the gears and getting a feel for the effort. You already said running sub MP felt really comfortable, well that has to be a psychological benefit in itself, these sessions are really good when you have a good day and are able to push the boundaries of your fitness.

Edited: 09/01/2013 at 22:01
09/01/2013 at 22:02

Thanks YD. I think part of the enjoyment was, peversely, the control needed to ramp up the pace. I got a bit bored of garmin watching last year- but this was a fun new game to play! 

10/01/2013 at 09:08

Good question AR and good answer YD. 

I felt a bit fresher after taking yesterday as a rest day. My first non running day since being ill on Xmas and Boxing day. Did 8m this morning in exactly 1hr 1min, 7.35m/m 142bpm (75% max) Felt good to be out, but mead me realise that I probably do need to have an easier or non running day or two to be fresh and ready to hit the magic8. 

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