RW Forum Six – Sub 2.50 Kier with Parkrunfan

421 to 440 of 981 messages
21/01/2013 at 21:47
Looks like a well balanced week Keir. Depending on how your legs recover, maybe consider a rest tomorrow (after 2 tough runs) and then hit the MP run fresh on Wed.

Minni - just been on the KNH bookface page. They did say they are going to consider priority entry for next year. Like you I didn't expect a refund, hoped for a reschedule and will be miffed if we don't get a priority next year.
21/01/2013 at 21:56
Minni - thinking about build up races and spotted the run Northumberland Half. According to the website it's a new course this year, do you know anything about it?
Question to the thread, what do you all think to me running a half full beans in March? I already have a 10 mile race booked in March, is a 10 mile and a half too much?
The half options aren't local, so it would be an expensive way of doing a long MP session that I could probably get done in my own.
Edited: 21/01/2013 at 21:58
21/01/2013 at 22:01

Keir - Yes, that sounds a sensible move responding to how the body is reacting. I'd rather see the 21 miler being kept in than be too concerned about the faster end.

With the faster work it should really feel as though you're leaving it all a little bit too late. The reason being that the training adaptation response to sessions like the progressive 10 milers and fast finishing 22s is actually quite rapid in the overall scheme of things and as such there is more risk of peaking too early than not being ready in time.

Minni - Altough I am always keen to defend race organisers, especially from running clubs, I have to say that the justified line of 'remember we're just volunteers and are as disappointed as you', while being very true does start to be a bit less easy to accept when £40,000 of entry fees are involved.

What really surprises me is when races cancel and then say that they are going to have a meeting to discuss what to do about it. It is as if weather related issues in winter hadnt even crossed their minds.

21/01/2013 at 22:05
Oh god YD don't get me started on HMs!

My plan was to get a pb at BM, then run the Meadows in Edinburgh at MP followed by the Northumberland at full pelt the following week. Now I don't know what to do because I feel I can get sub 1:30 in Edinburgh but then that would mean missing out on racing the Northumberland, which I want to do too. But not sure how hilly it will be so might not get sub 1:30....

Anyway, I'm trying to find out the exact course and I'll go down and run it as part of a long run sometime in February so I can let you know.
21/01/2013 at 22:11
Cheers Minni, the Northumberland race is on Mothering Sunday, so I had better start working in the running pass now just in case
21/01/2013 at 22:12
Treat her to somewhere nice for lunch afterwards - better book though!
22/01/2013 at 08:11
parkrunfan wrote (see)

With the faster work it should really feel as though you're leaving it all a little bit too late. The reason being that the training adaptation response to sessions like the progressive 10 milers and fast finishing 22s is actually quite rapid in the overall scheme of things and as such there is more risk of peaking too early than not being ready in time.

Wise words. I was wondering if there was enough faster stuff, but I also don't want to be burning all my matches too early and I find that the faster stuff does do that.

Thanks for admiring my face Minni. Not sure about it being stuck to your groin area though! 

5m easy in the slush this morning. Drove 40m north to get to school and its 4 degress colder!

22/01/2013 at 16:55

Lol Keir! Very odd.

22/01/2013 at 21:21

These temperature differences are interesting over such short distances.

It isnt quite as dramatic but the prediction for when we visit Dublin on Saturday is for it to be 8c warmer than at home, that is quite a difference for a short flight.

A hilly 10 miler tonight @8:13/mile, which may not seem like anything to write home about but trust me there was a lot of evidence in that run of the aerobic improvements from the three 20+ milers in 10 days. A couple of weeks ago the same effort would have produced a 9min+ run on the same course.

Progress is very satisfactory

 

22/01/2013 at 21:45

On my 6am run this morning I could smell heating oil all the way round. I kept sniffing my clothes, but couldn't smell anything on them, yet I could smell the same smell all the way round my 5 mile loop. 

Later when boys came downstairs they complained to my wife that they could smell a skunk in the house!    But I have just discovered what the smell was. It's those smelly Frenchies - invading us with their odour! 
22/01/2013 at 21:48

x-post - Interesting that you are noticing the benefits from the 20 milers already PRF. I always thought that it takes around 3 weeks to receive the training benefits from a session. Do you think this is more of an efficency in stride, changes in perceived effort or actual cardio fitness gains?

edit - I keep forgetting to ask - How's the battle with the lurgy going YD? Recovered yet?

Edited: 22/01/2013 at 21:49
22/01/2013 at 22:05

Keir - I tend to find the benefits come much quicker than that.

I find that low intensity 20+ milers that dont take much recovering from give a significant boost in days.

This was evident from the 70 miles in 2 days that we did last September and then a 5K comeback pb was produced 6 days later.

Obviously if more intensity was involved, recovery would be longer and the boost would come later.

To answer your question, it certainly improves running efficiency but you're also improving the power/weight ratio from both directions with these runs, ie increasing lean muscle mass and reducing overall weight.

22/01/2013 at 22:14

I thought building endurance through low level training (baking the cake) took several months, yet higher intensity (icing the cake) was a much quicker process. Hense many training programmes having a large base period, building in intensity towards shorter, higher intervals. This was the reason I ran 1600m reps 6 weeks out - dropping in distance to 800m and right down to 200m just 2 weeks before the marathon.

Yet it is you are saying that low intensity has quicker training effects and the higher intensity takes longer as recovery is longer. That 70m in 2 days (or was it more of a case of 20 odd 5k intervals?) and 5k pb certainly look like lower intensity training has a quick impact on fitness. 

Interesting stuff. 

22/01/2013 at 22:23

Thanks for asking Keir. I basically inhaled a whole bottle of First Defence over the last 7 or 8 days and the cold never left my nose and now it’s just about gone. I have finished the bottle now, but have another in the house just in case.

Interesting chat about how quickly improvements come. I have heard the 3 or 4 weeks thing, but like prf I have noticed quicker improvements off long runs and more markedly tempo runs. I reckon we are all different in that respect, the next runner might get a boost for all out lung bursting interval sessions. I wonder how much of it is mental, and you know a run or certain type of session will deliver a good fitness boost and as a result you feel more confident that you are getting fitter in the days after and project that into all aspects of your running. Just a theory, but confidence plays a big part in running well IMO.

22/01/2013 at 22:24

Well, you're right but think of the aerobic base building as laying layer upon layer of aerobic improvement.

Each LSR boosts both the quantity and the size of each individual mitochondria but it takes several weeks to get anything close to a full load.

So while the benefits of an individual low intensity session are quick it takles a whole series of them to build the engine.

With high intensity sessions it takes less, ie 4-6, to bring to a peak, and the benefits are shorter lived before starting to tail off.

Hence the reason for getting the low intensity stuff in first and building higher intensity on top.

22/01/2013 at 22:30

And to add another factor which is relevant to YD's 'we're all different' angle, I think it makes a big difference if you're just regaining recently lost aerobic capacity as opposed to either long lost or never had aerobic fitness.

 

22/01/2013 at 22:32

Agreed with the last point prf made, its much easier getting fitness you once had back, than it is building it in the first place.

23/01/2013 at 08:09
parkrunfan wrote (see)

Well, you're right but think of the aerobic base building as laying layer upon layer of aerobic improvement.

Each LSR boosts both the quantity and the size of each individual mitochondria but it takes several weeks to get anything close to a full load.

So while the benefits of an individual low intensity session are quick it takles a whole series of them to build the engine.

With high intensity sessions it takes less, ie 4-6, to bring to a peak, and the benefits are shorter lived before starting to tail off.

Hence the reason for getting the low intensity stuff in first and building higher intensity on top.

Great stuff. That short explanation really explains a lot. So I guess base building is more like a wafer than a cake. 

23/01/2013 at 09:52

Delurking (briefly)!

prf - what you've described - i.e. a lot of long runs producing quick benefit - to me is very striking of what Lydiard used to do way back when. When one of his athletes was feeling stale, washed out or whatnot, he'd frequently get them to do 2 or 3 consecutive days of hilly 20+ milers as a slow pace - within a week or two they would be back to normal.

There's a ton of physiological reasons why exactly it works (or doesn't, depending on who you believe), but Lydiard's basic principle was "aerobic training recovers and restores" (if I can butcher his exact quote).

I'll keep quite now, I'm about as far removed from marathon training as there is 

23/01/2013 at 10:09

ok. With the base building coming to an end and having taken onboard comments about the planned magic8 week training earlier, now could be a good time to start posting the training planned for the first 2 weeks of the magic8:

Week 1 w/c 28.1
2x11m MLRs
12m inc Progressive 10m (1.5m w/u 7m @7.15-6.45 then 6:15, 6:05, 5:50) 
Ashford 10k (total 14m inc warm up and recovery jog round afterwards) 
3x5m recovery runs

Total 65m

Week 2 w/c 4.2
12m MLR
12m inc Progressive 10m (1.5m w/u 7m @7.15-6.45 then 6:15, 6:05, 5:50) 
20m unfuelled
8m inc 3m @10k pace
3x5m recovery (or a rest day)

Total 67m

I am really looking forward to testing my form at the 10k. I haven't completed in a running race (as opposed to a duathlon) since early August! Last year this same event was 6 weeks later -  in mid March, and I was 2 sec slower than my 10k pb. It will be interesting to have a bench mark to measure my form. 

 

Previously bookmarked threads are now visible in "Followed Threads". You can also manage notifications on these threads from the "Forum Settings" section of your profile settings page to prevent being sent an email when a reply is made.
Forum Jump  

RW competitions

RW Forums