RW Forum Six – Sub 2.50 Kier with Parkrunfan

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30/01/2013 at 11:07

I wish Minni, as a child of the 70’s I fully remember the Young Ones, certainly from repeats as I probably didn’t see it first time round. The University Challenge episode is ace, love the bit when Motorhead appear and play the Ace of Spades

Keir, chill man, you have plenty good training in the bag already and plenty time to get some more in.

I have just had two days off, like Phil I am taking it easy this week for the Dewsbury 10k on Sunday. I have a soft 10k PB so confident of taking a chunk out of that.

EDIT – just checked the 5 day forecast, looks like it will be windy  , it was windy the last time I ran it in 2011, not much shelter either if I remember correctly.

Edited: 30/01/2013 at 11:37
30/01/2013 at 13:43

OMG that was so windy. Stopped me in my tracks a number of times, that and wading a couple of sections. Ahhh am so fed up with weather interfering. It felt hard today, not helped by my underestimate of the distance so 16 miles instead of 15. Still done now, and still an hour before pick up so best do some work!!

30/01/2013 at 14:06

That's a bugger for your race Y D.  The weather is just constantly too much of whatever.  Last night's run was too windy and too watery.  Bring on the cool, calm, sunny days of Spring......  


30/01/2013 at 14:51

I remember Motorhead and The Cure, but every other episode seemed to feature Madness. I remember from the repeats as well YD.

Looks like almost all of us have a windy 10k planned for Sunday. Prehaps we should report the ave. wind speed when we post our times. 

Sunny here now and I am so tempted to go out for a short one later, but really don't feel like it. I'll focus on recovering instead. Hopefully run an easy 5m tomorrow and something longer on Friday.  (for PRF). 

31/01/2013 at 11:37

5m slow, but it was good to clear out the lungs! Legs heavy. But overall on the mend. 

31/01/2013 at 11:56

Keir - You'll be flying again before you know it, 'on the mend' sounds good.

In the meantime, shift over and make some room on the slow bench.

Last night's windswept 2 mile track race was, lets say, interesting. It was the first time I have run a track race where every lap was consistently slower than the previous one. I wouldbnt say it was much to do with the wind either, just the 5 x 20+ milers in two and a half weeks catching up. No surprises there then!

So, 2.0 Miles in 12:18 (5:59, 6:19) - In terms of the music theme, 'The Only Way Is Up' springs to mind

Still, it adds to the impressive collection of V45 UK No.1 rankings. Okay, maybe we can omit the 'impressive'


31/01/2013 at 13:32

Keir, good to see you getting out again. Do you have a plan for the rest of the week or is it just a take it day by day at the moment?

prf, I have told Steve M to concentrate on beating you on Sunday  
Like you he is working his way back to form, I reckon it could be a good battle between the two of you. He ran a similar 2 mile time to you last night.

Not been doing much mileage here, letting my legs freshen up a bit this week after 4 tough weeks. Lots of grumbling muscles this week, suppose its just soreness coming out now my legs have had chance to rest.
I did the club 2 mile time trial last night, one mile out round a lamppost and back. (on Station Road prf, the last stretch on the Thirsk 10 route).
Splits were 5:28 and 5:40, guess which one was into the wind! I had to really graft to run 5:40, it was a lung burner.
Then after that did 4 x 0.25m with a minute recovery, all around 5:20 – 5:30 pace. Nice to get some quicker running in, not sure ill get chance to run that quick on Sunday!

31/01/2013 at 22:01

YD - I dont think you've set him too tough a challenge there

Legs fell off tonight, was looking at potentially doing an 18 but by 9 there was nothing left in them. Nothing injured, just very heavy.

I actually like this feeling because it generally means the training load is right up where it needs to be to get maximum training benefit once it has bedded in.

01/02/2013 at 12:46

I don’t know prf, a couple of easy days will have you raring to go. It could be a good battle, not sure where to put my money….

It’s funny that you take such a positive from a bad run, most would get all melodramatic about it, but you don’t and I like your logic. As you say, you are probably just dipping into overtraining and are going to reap those rewards pretty soon.

01/02/2013 at 14:11

Nice positive split laps there PRF. Always good to get a record (although I would have thought that De-Ream would have been only available as CD single rather than a record!). I guess that although the speed was regressive the HR and effort went up through out?

Plan YD is exactly what was planned for the week, just slightly slower (as recommended by Minni and Fraser) - apart from a rest day so missing the Weds 14m inc prog. 10 prep session (as recommended by PRF). So 11m in the rain this morning. 

01/02/2013 at 14:25

MartinYelling wrote (see)

@stuartwallace5 you should get your head down and crack on! At this stage the early miles you are running haven't yet kicked in.  Given time to adapt this should shine through as you get fitter.  You want to be pinging fit in April not now, so, suck it up and get on with it!  (A little tough love at this point!).  If you're still struggling and have progressed appropriately then reflect again in anohter 6 weeks.

So the same sort of thinking.

As you say, YD, it is a case of dipping into overtraining which is the line you want to be hovering around without breaking anything.

I have a 5K, 10K and 10,000m in the next 5 days, which may seem a bit of a daft idea when on the cusp of overtraining. However, this is where effort levels are adjusted according to feedback from the body. This is the period for getting the work in and not worrying about the output.

Keir - If you put an 11 miler in the gremlins must be well on their way out. Just carry on regardless now and dont try 'catching up' with any perceived lost training.

01/02/2013 at 15:47

I know that feeling PRF the miles are hurting me at the mo, but I know is like coiling up a spring ready for April. It should start to feel easier in 3-4 weeks time but till then its suck it and see!!

Anyway rest day for me today after 58 miles so far this week. 6-8 tomorrow (with a hangover no doubt, as have school Mum's night out tonight !) and then 20 with some MP miles thrown in on Sunday. Take me up to 85-ish for the week ...

Mind you rest day has involved cleaning bathrooms, two loads of washing, taking daughter to create and move dance class (I have to participate!), took her swimming, lunch at friends house (might sound glamorous but trust me 5 kids and 4 adults isn't quite so), rush home for school run. Now sitting with a coffee to give me a lift to get me out later!!

02/02/2013 at 08:52

PRF - You're hardcore! After that intensive 20m block to be going into a middle distance block will certainly bake a good cake, so long as your mixture survives the hot temperature in your oven! (perhaps this baking the cake analogy has gone to far?)

Think of it all as fat burning cross training MM! Very impresive mileage though.

I feel well now but still blocked sinuses. I'll go for it tomorrow, but hopes of a pb are now doubtful. Ho, hum. Bigger fish and all that.


02/02/2013 at 13:47

Keir - PBs are unimportant at this stage. As long as you're getting the effort and workload in over the full 8 weeks take everything that results with a pinch of salt. Trust it all to come good in good time.

This morning was a good example to illustrate why I was unconerned about the legs falling off on both Weds and Thurs this week.

3rd at Dewsbury parkrun in 18:58, which is equivalent to about 18:15 on a flat course.

The time in itself isnt spectacular but it actually tells me that I have just about got comeback PB fitness under the bonnet, it just needs the weight to come into line over the next few weeks and low 17:xx's at Hull should be back on the cards.

In the meantime, if I can get anywhere near to dipping into the 37:xx's at Dewsbury tomorrow that will represent a decent position to be in for the beginning of Feb.

Happy with progress

03/02/2013 at 14:58

A mixed day for me at Ashford 10k. Disappointing in one way, but considering your comment above PRF, a reassuring result. 

It was colder, windier and a month earlier than last year, all of which were going to make it a tougher day, but I was hoping to get close to last yrs time of 37.21 - 2 sec slower than my pb, in actual fact, I was hoping that if all went well I would get a 36.xx.

2.5 w/u then too fast a start meant I went through the first flat 1km mark in 5.35m/m pace and due to down hill over the next k I was at a similar pace at 2k. I was dangling off the back of a group, but they slowly pulled away and I started to get passed by others who I couldn't hold on to, never a good sign. I knew at 5k (18.15) when I was only 15sec slower than my 5k pb that I had pushed too hard and decided to reign things in a bit. Up the hill at 7k and I was in all sorts. However I did try to put on a burst over the top, thinking I could hold on for 2.5k. At this point I was bang on last years time (which was 1 week after my 81.30HM pb) so I knew a pb would be possible, but after 1/2k at the 8.5k mark I was screwed - stitch came on and despite easing right back I couldn't breathe and came to a complete stop and I strictly gave myself 30 sec to get my breath back. I have never done this before in a race. I tried to keep up with those who had passed me but lost another 10sec or so over the final 1.5k. Final time - chip - 38.10.

So disappointed not to pb and also not to get 37.xx, but without the head cold this week, windier day and the breathing issue I am sure I would have been 1 min quicker. I had also done a far bit of speed work prior to the 10k last year, so it s nice to know that improvement is still to come this campaign. 

On another note, I am excited to be going out tonight to see Leeds finest

03/02/2013 at 18:32

Keir - That represents a good chunk of hard graft. Considering the over zealous start and recent virus (which must surely have been a factor in the breathing issue) that is a decent outcome.

Rather than worrying about the time, the question to ask is whether you will be due to get a training benefit from the outing, which I would suggest is without question.

We had complete opposites today in terms of pacing. My first half was 19:35 compared to your 18:15 and the overall time was 38:12 compared to your 38:10.

Happy enough with that, my thoughts are here.

Meanwhile, YD was on another planet today.......

Keir - Bear in mind that a hard 10K is not a lot different in terms of benefits to the progressive 10 milers so emphasis this coming week would be better skewed towards longer, steadier stuff if you're struggling to get a full week in.

Edited: 03/02/2013 at 18:33
03/02/2013 at 21:16
Keir - I'd say that's very solid indeed for this stage. As you say unprecedented to come to a brief standstill for a breather during a race means you were obviously really close the wire. Wind and virus are both huge factors let alone putting the two together. Inward and upward

Nice racing from you prf. I like the way you give everything a positive spin. Was especially interested to read your interpretation of a day when your body just says it's not going to play ball is a sure fire sign that you're training hard ....very good philosophy

More miles over the crazy northumberland hills for me. Must be doing me some good
03/02/2013 at 21:24

I always thought Leeds finest were Soft Cell......

Keir – loads of factors that say you would have been a minute or possibly even quicker than that. I think you might have underestimated the effects of the bug with your start and it’s very hard to hold it together once you overcook things. The fact that you ran close to 5k PB and still ran a decent pace over the second half shows you are in good general shape. How would you have felt about running another 5k after your 5k pb?

prf – it seems you have had an enjoyable weekends racing, I know (Prince) SM enjoyed his tussle with you today as I am sure you did. Onwards and upwards!

As prf says, I had a very good day today, I have written up a longer report on the Middle Ground thread if anyone is interested, but the shortened version is I ran 35:24 today (35:21 on my watch!!!!)
Mile splits were:
Half way in 18:10
Last split was 1:11.3 or 4:59/m pace
Second 5k in 17:14 (2 second PB!)
That’s officially a 10k PB by 1:18.  

03/02/2013 at 21:29
Wow! Good work YD! Sub 2.40 awaits.

Nice run PRF. All the best ran 38.1x today Will discuss plan for next wk tomorrow. Still waiting for roadies to clear the stage. Yawning!
03/02/2013 at 22:23

Haha I nearly choked when I read that Keir. I think I will keep the 2:50 target just yet.....

prf, what were you saying to me today about the marathon being about toughness as much as it's about fitness? Where as a 10k is near enough all a question of fitness as toughness doesnt really come into it that much.

Edited: 03/02/2013 at 22:24
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