RW Forum Six – Sub 2.50 Kier with Parkrunfan

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24/02/2013 at 21:28

Plan for week 5 of magic8:

Mon Rest
Tue 5m easy
Wed 10m MLR
Thur 5m inc 3m @ 10k pace
Fri 11m MLR
Sat 5m recovery
Sun 20m progressive

The 20m on Sunday will be at the Thanet 20m race. The plan is for 0-4m @ MP +45-60sec, 5-8m @ MP +30-45sec, 9-12m @ MP +15-30sec, 13-16m @ MP – MP+15sec, 17-20m AVIT! - What do you reckon about this run and also the week PRF

25/02/2013 at 10:33

Keir Congratulations, great report and tactics. Whoop dee doo, whoop dee doo chicken vindaloo.

25/02/2013 at 11:42

Awesome sauce keir, loved the report, keep up the good work and good luck with the progreesive run at the weekend.

25/02/2013 at 14:51
Just checking in to say congrats to keir. Fantastic win and enjoyed the report.
Recover well and don't worry if you need another rest day after all that.
Very impressed with your approach thus far.
25/02/2013 at 15:03

Thanks for the positives. I am still feeling stiff and sore in my legs, but I think running slow in the cold has resolved the other niggly issues I was having. I plan to go for an easy 5m tomorrow as I think that might help to shake out the stiffness a bit, but pace will be sloooooowwwwww!

25/02/2013 at 16:07
Woop de woop [insert some kind of vegetarian] soup. That ones just for you Keir.
Well done fella.
25/02/2013 at 20:10
Hi Keir. As stiff as a post hard raced marathon type feel or worse/different ? No other major ill effects I trust

Au contraire poacher - I think keir's medal-let is actually a smoking cessation device since the ash of one fag would more or less fill it. Jealous?? Moi ??
25/02/2013 at 21:05

I also thought ashtray on first seeing it, but as it would be totally redundant as such, it will make a nice plant pot tray at some point in the future. 

About level with typical marathon stiffness. Getting better by the hour. Actually climbed the stairs without using the rail earlier!

25/02/2013 at 22:14
Keir wrote (see)

Actually climbed the stairs without using the rail earlier!

I never have issues going up stairs afterwards, it is coming down that is hard: have to turn round and come down by walking up backwards.

25/02/2013 at 22:23

  After one marathon I did I couldn't run a couple of days later.  I could walk but if I tried to break into a run, jog or even shuffle my legs just wouldn't move.  It was weird.  Definite breakdown between brain and muscles.

26/02/2013 at 08:49

Keir - Looking at that 20 mile plan, it looks just about right. As long as the first 10 is around 70 minutes, or a touch over, you can then push the second half along as much as you fancy. But keep it controlled and tidy and try to use it as a mental rehearsal for London.

You dont want to hit the finishing line feeling as though you have given it everything in the final miles though because that will then put doubts in your mind about maintaining pace for 26 miles. Something around 70 mins followed by 65 mins with plenty in the tank at the end would tick all the boxes.


As far as the rest of the week is concerned, it looks fine but of course the Weds and Thurs runs might have to be binned or reduced depending on any residual stiffness.

26/02/2013 at 09:40

Minni - I wouldnt even try to run within a week, I still cant walk easily for about a week and my legs will still ache when i run more than a few miles for a couple more weeks !

26/02/2013 at 09:44

Keir - fantastic win and report!  You're almost getting me in the mood for an ultra!  (One day...)

W.r.t the 20 miler, I don't want to confuse matters but my preference would be running a solid portion of it targetting marathon pace bang on.  Racing a 20 mile race with a number on is the nearest you will get to race day environment and visualisation and if you can bang out 10 x 6:xx splits within a few seconds of each other (depending on terrain/wind...) and finish feeling like you had few gears left...  On the other hand, you've done a few more progressive type MLRs than I have in any of my mara build-ups, so if you find it easier to treat it as an extension of these, maybe that would also work?

26/02/2013 at 10:05

I did manage to go down without the bannister today PMJ.

Wife and 2 sons ill, so I was up 6 times in the night, seeing to them and my 1yr old daughter. Surprisingly fine this morning, but I did ditch the early morning 5m run and will sneak it in later in the day (what's it called? A code 9 run Minni?).

Minni, I saw somewhere that you said you had stocked up on beetroot juice. I've never given this a go, but I have heard it can create a purple patch . Where did you get your supplies? Can you post a link?

From my limited experience of one small ultra Phil, to misquote Poacher on sub 3.15:'the pain is less but the suffering is greater' However the pressure to count seconds is certainly reduced which makes for a more supportive and fun atmosphere. I guess there is more of an Ironman 'were all in this together' rather than Olympic distance 'we are all competiting against each other' feel.

I haven't run any MP stuff and haven't really go much on the plan Phil. However if I run to PRFs plan and hit 70mins for the first 10m (7m/m) and 65min (6.30m/m) for the 2nd 10m then that would tick that box. 

When we first discussed the programme PRF I think you said I needed 6 x progressive 10milers (4 being progressive over the whole 10miles) and 6x 5ks. Although I will listen to my legs on Weds and Thurs, I am a bit worried about missing some of these sessions. 

26/02/2013 at 13:01
Keir wrote (see)

Wife and 2 sons ill, so I was up 6 times in the night, seeing to them and my 1yr old daughter. Surprisingly fine this morning, but I did ditch the early morning 5m run and will sneak it in later in the day (what's it called? A code 9 run Minni?).

9a Keir!  I did one of those yesterday along the cliff tops before a Governors meeting.  Stayed out too long then had to just pull my business clothes on top of my running kit and sit in it for 3.5 hours!  Hope the family recover.  If I were you I'd be tempted to move out for the week - you don't want to get ill.

Beetroot juice - I have tried various: shop bought as a long drink, shop bought as a 'shot' and juiced my own.  Juicing my own was my favourite but very messy.  This week I'm going for the shots - expensive but don't have time to juice.  I get them from Holland and Barrett.  Yes for the purple wee - mix this with a Berocca and the toilet bowl resembles some kind of scientific experiment.


26/02/2013 at 13:13

Keir – a bit late to the party but well done on the excellent execution of the Ultra! Loved the report and the turning your lights off and on tactics. Should give you a massive boost going forward as well, nice one!
Shame about your poor nights sleep last night, had similar myself last night, it’s a pain. Be interesting to see how you recover this week, fingers crossed you are back at it in time for the 20 at the weekend.

Been a bit absent from here for a while myself. Reason being is I have had a bit of a sore left leg meaning I only ran 13 miles last week + I was in the Lake District over the weekend for Mrs YDs birthday.
I hope I have got to the bottom of the leg issue and am going for a decent length test run tonight. All being well with some careful management I should be ok to resume full training in a week or so. If not it's off to see the fizz

Edited: 26/02/2013 at 13:23
26/02/2013 at 15:05

Thanks Minni. I'll get myself some shots as well. Any advice on when to take them?

Sorry to hear about the left leg YD. At least it is well timed with your wife's birthday. Where does it hurt / what do you think caused it / does it hurt when walking and standing or just running?

My wifes birthday is in a couple of weeks. I have paid for single room in a Travel Lodge 10 miles away. She is really looking forward to a hot bath and undisturbed nights sleep! 


A shoe question: I have bought myself some new shoes for VLM. Adidas Tempos. Still in the box. Would this Sunday be a good idea to test them out or should I save the test for an LSR when my legs are slightly fresher / closer to home?

26/02/2013 at 16:50

It started out as a calf thing, a  bit of a dull ache/soreness right at the top of the calf/behind the knee. Then as the week progressed the soreness moved up to the back of the knee and then into the bottom of my hamstring.
At first I thought it was just a bit over worked muscle after a couple of tough weeks, so I rested it at first, but resting hasn’t done anything for it; working on glute strength and doing some more hip, ITB and hamstring stretching seems to have improved things. As the soreness was moving up the leg over the week (and was much worse when running up hill) it suggests to me the problem might be somewhere else in the leg and not a calf or knee problem; hence the glute, hip, ITB and hamstring work
I wish I had run more last week though, as running isn’t too bad, its just a dull ache and there is no pain what so ever when I stretch. It’s a tendency of mine to back off a bit too much and rest when more often than not resting isn’t the answer.

Anyway, I didn’t run yesterday but did loads of strength work and climbed up the side of big hill in the Lake District and the soreness eased as I climbed the hill, that has given me hope things are improving as it was a tough climb that should have set it off!
I will run easy this week, but hope to get in a decent number of miles.

Good call on giving the wife a night off Keir, I am finding it a very useful tactic to factor in some ‘her’ time in now as I will want plenty ‘me’ time closer to the Marathon.

As for new shoes, I would wear them for short easy runs first before testing them on either a session or long run. Just to be sure they fit properly and don’t rub or anything like that. Better to have a disrupted easy 5 miler than a session or long run IMO.

26/02/2013 at 16:51
No Keir!!! Don't get Minni started on the beetroot discussion again. The woman's obsessed !!

Hope all the family recover quickly and - more to the point - you avoid it

Sorry to hear about your injury niggle YD. hope it settles quickly too but don't sit on it without some decent device too long
26/02/2013 at 18:37

YD - I did worry for you when you said you were going to run 23M on deliberately tired from hills legs the other week. Resting wont hurt you, you have tons in the bank. I missed the first 10 days of March with a calf issue last year and still got back to it ok, just dont try to play catch up.

I try to make sure that my latest pair of trainers has less than about 300M on them for VLM.

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