RW Forum Six – Sub 2.50 Kier with Parkrunfan

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26/02/2013 at 20:23
Y D wrote (see)

I wish I had run more last week though, as running isn’t too bad, its just a dull ache and there is no pain what so ever when I stretch. It’s a tendency of mine to back off a bit too much and rest when more often than not resting isn’t the answer.

Better to be over cautious than over optimistic. You unecessarily might miss a few days this way, but better than missing a few weeks whilst recovering from over-doing it. Fingers crossed for your recovery. The uphill walk sounds promising.

Good idea about the shoes YD. I think a couple of short runs, a MLR and then a LSR will probably be best rather than rushing to try out at a 20 inc MP.

How many miles do you run in your race shoes before you change them TR?

I don't want to open up the debate, but am interested in what Minni does Fraser. When it comes to red and purple liquids Minni seems to be an expert!

5m very stiff this afternoon, but felt better as the run went on. 

Edited: 26/02/2013 at 20:25
26/02/2013 at 20:40
26/02/2013 at 20:49

Keir - anywhere between about 600M to 1000M I guess, But dont forget that outside of VLM season I'm only ~100M/month.

26/02/2013 at 21:15
YD - I hope the run goes well tonight and you've seen the back of your niggle/injury. Well done for stepping back - that's not something easily done.

Keir - I did a lot of reading about beet juice last year. At that time there was no evidence that prolonged use of beet juice made any difference to taking it for a short time prior to races. The recommendation was to take it for 4 days before a race, with race day being no 4. I think when I juiced my own I had about 300ml per day ( in one go).

Does it work? I don't know. I've taken it before main races and done well, however, I've also trained hard for them. It agrees with me and apart from the red pee doesn't have any side effects. Perhaps there's something in it or maybe it just placebo but either way I'm willing to stick with it.

I don't know if anyone was been following the Asics threads? I've tried to lurk on and off but find it hard to keep up. Anyway, they ran a HM a week or so ago and Ruth the diet lady had them eating masses the day before - carbon loading big time. I think some of them were struggling with the amount they had it eat and I wondered how they'd get around with out bursting. On the day they all ran really good PBs and all thought the big food has helped.
Edited: 26/02/2013 at 21:18
26/02/2013 at 21:21
Minni. Only pulling your leg! You've got to fight for your right to juice. I tried it myself ( I'll give anything a bash) but it made me boak ....

Will have aloof at that's asics thread. Interesting they were doing just for a half.
26/02/2013 at 21:26
That's the good thing about the shots Fraser, just take deep breath, close your eyes and down in one. It's over before you know it.
26/02/2013 at 21:38

Went out for a few miles tonight, first 4 miles felt great, but then I started to get some aching in the IT band on the left side. As the run progressed the aching spread across the back of my knee and got steadily worse for a couple of miles then to just stayed the same for a couple of miles.
I have suspected the IT band was at the root of the issue for a couple of days now, tonights run suggest this is the case, but going to get a professional opinion to be sure.
It’s actually the best run I have had so far, so suggests the work I have been doing is starting to improve things. Think I will just keep to short daily runs to help keep things ticking over, hopefully I can start to increase the miles soon.

Positive that the run eased the stiffness the further you ran tonight Keir. As for the shoe plan, that’s exactly what I have been doing with my new Marathon shoes. Done a few MLR’s/long tempos in them and am ready to test them out on a long run now.

Saw the Mo interview today, funny

Minni - how much do the shots cost? Are the special shots any better than getting a couple of litres of beet juice from a health food store or supermarket? i.e. is the nitrate concentrate levels any different?

Edited: 26/02/2013 at 21:46
26/02/2013 at 22:03
Minni wrote (see)
Ruth the diet lady had them eating masses the day before - carbon loading big time. 

What were they eating? Coal? 

I know SIS do some nitrate gels, but haven't tried them. Interesting as SIS tend to avoid jumping on any old band wagon. For example they don't (or at least last time I checked) make any during race carb drink with added protein.

What ITB exercises are you doing YD? I know Phil recomended some to me a few years ago which worked well. 

26/02/2013 at 22:23

Foam rolling and the stretch where lie on your back you bring your leg down over the other leg and point your foot at 9 o’clock or 3 o’clock depending on the leg.
Also tried the butt band stretch tonight, seemed like a good one.


27/02/2013 at 08:47

Minni - I would carb up for a 1/2 too, but I only do d1/2s as 1/2IM prep so do them after a 3hr bike the day before and no taper, so need the calories. Still seem to run ok though so carbing up works for me.

27/02/2013 at 09:41

I certainly have one leg on the bench Woke up with a sore leg from last nights run suggesting I pushed it a bit far. I have checked, I can defer my Marathon entry for a year, hope it doesn’t come to that!
Physio appointment booked for tomorrow night.

As for carbing up, why would you need to carb up for a half? How many calories will a fit person burn during a half, a thousand maybe? Surely a reasonable portion of carbs the night before and some carbs for breakfast will be sufficient to get you through without any issues?

27/02/2013 at 10:23

YD - Patience will certainly be a virtue for you, but you know that anyway!

But even a full 7-10 days out wouldnt derail you for Manchester.

As for carbing up for a half, it is just a way of taking extra baggage around with you, ie pointless. Although those pints of liquid refreshment before GNR that we had didnt seem to do too much harm


Keir - That run description sounds fine, just the expected stiffness that did its best to loosen off as the run progressed. Should be ok by the weekend.

27/02/2013 at 10:25

You could try for this YD

Seriously, it is early days. See what the physio says.

I also don''t carb load nor take on gels or energy drinks for a HM. 

27/02/2013 at 11:10

That crutch record is rubbish, I reckon that’s a shoe in for me! At least I have a plan B if I cant run it.

Not worried about losing two weeks training, the concern is when it becomes two weeks of no training and two weeks limited miles while I build back up, before I know it I am half way through March with a month of low miles and no quality running behind me.
I will see what the physio says, fingers crossed he gets me back to it soon. If not I had thought that maybe the Edinburgh Marathon at the end of May might be a good fallback should I want a bit longer to prepare after a time out. But that’s not a call I can make just yet.

27/02/2013 at 12:03

Although it is early to be making definate plans, I think having a back up marathon is a good call. 2 years ago at my first sub 3 attempt I was ill in the week leading up to the marathon. Instead of wasting the fitness I found a marathon in Orpington. Although not ideal for a sub 3, I still managed a good run and pb'd. 

27/02/2013 at 13:07

I think Ruth did also say that seasoned runners may not need to carbo load as much as newcomers but maybe we're all missing a trick here....?

27/02/2013 at 13:25

I think the reason why the Asics lot ate so much before their halves was purely to test carbo loading before the main event, not because Ruth thougth it was needed for a half. I'm definitely going to pay a bit more attention to it this time round. I mean- it can't hurt to eat some extra toast with jam or cereal before going to bed, right? Not much chance of putting on weight in two days...

I think having a back up mara is a great idea. I ended up having a nightmare with the NY cancelation last year. Managed to book San Sebastian three weeks later but there was a lot of unnecessary stress involved...


27/02/2013 at 19:40

Yes Brol I think you're right.  But it didn't do them any harm... I'm thinking of totally pigging out on Saturday.  Actually one of my best half marathons was after a night on champagne cocktails and a deep fried cheese burger  (the burger and cheese were dipped in batter then fried ) at 2 am!  Actually my profile pic is from that half!

27/02/2013 at 20:38
Keir wrote (see)

Although it is early to be making definate plans, I think having a back up marathon is a good call. 2 years ago at my first sub 3 attempt I was ill in the week leading up to the marathon. Instead of wasting the fitness I found a marathon in Orpington. Although not ideal for a sub 3, I still managed a good run and pb'd. 

Good idea, but careful where it leads - one can end up racing both a week or two apart, then the world of back to backs and multi day challenges will beckon.

How do you feel the ultra recovery compares to a normal mara? Those short ultras are really a mara + a 10k, all run at LSR pace, so you should recover fast although the extra distance will maybe give a bit of muscle fatigue but nowt serious.

As for carbo loading, it must depend on the individual's metabolism. Personally I can scoff 5 meals a day without feeling heavy

27/02/2013 at 20:53

Deep fried battered burgers and champagne cocktails. No wonder Fraser has moved to your neck of the woods Minni!

10m after work. Started out at a hobbily 9+m/m, but as I warmed up and stride quickened so did my speed. More comfortable running up hill than on the flat. Wierdly final overall pace was 8.13m/m - exactly the same as Saturday nights pace. 

Results for Saturday are now out. Looks like 2nd place was 8mins ahead of 3rd, but still 41mins behind me. Perhaps I didn't need to be looking over my shoulder quite so much! Much respect for the people who were out there for over 7 hours! I don't think I could have kept moving for that long.

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