RW Forum Six – Sub 2.50 Kier with Parkrunfan

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26/02/2013 at 15:05

Thanks Minni. I'll get myself some shots as well. Any advice on when to take them?

Sorry to hear about the left leg YD. At least it is well timed with your wife's birthday. Where does it hurt / what do you think caused it / does it hurt when walking and standing or just running?

My wifes birthday is in a couple of weeks. I have paid for single room in a Travel Lodge 10 miles away. She is really looking forward to a hot bath and undisturbed nights sleep! 


A shoe question: I have bought myself some new shoes for VLM. Adidas Tempos. Still in the box. Would this Sunday be a good idea to test them out or should I save the test for an LSR when my legs are slightly fresher / closer to home?

26/02/2013 at 16:50

It started out as a calf thing, a  bit of a dull ache/soreness right at the top of the calf/behind the knee. Then as the week progressed the soreness moved up to the back of the knee and then into the bottom of my hamstring.
At first I thought it was just a bit over worked muscle after a couple of tough weeks, so I rested it at first, but resting hasn’t done anything for it; working on glute strength and doing some more hip, ITB and hamstring stretching seems to have improved things. As the soreness was moving up the leg over the week (and was much worse when running up hill) it suggests to me the problem might be somewhere else in the leg and not a calf or knee problem; hence the glute, hip, ITB and hamstring work
I wish I had run more last week though, as running isn’t too bad, its just a dull ache and there is no pain what so ever when I stretch. It’s a tendency of mine to back off a bit too much and rest when more often than not resting isn’t the answer.

Anyway, I didn’t run yesterday but did loads of strength work and climbed up the side of big hill in the Lake District and the soreness eased as I climbed the hill, that has given me hope things are improving as it was a tough climb that should have set it off!
I will run easy this week, but hope to get in a decent number of miles.

Good call on giving the wife a night off Keir, I am finding it a very useful tactic to factor in some ‘her’ time in now as I will want plenty ‘me’ time closer to the Marathon.

As for new shoes, I would wear them for short easy runs first before testing them on either a session or long run. Just to be sure they fit properly and don’t rub or anything like that. Better to have a disrupted easy 5 miler than a session or long run IMO.

26/02/2013 at 16:51
No Keir!!! Don't get Minni started on the beetroot discussion again. The woman's obsessed !!

Hope all the family recover quickly and - more to the point - you avoid it

Sorry to hear about your injury niggle YD. hope it settles quickly too but don't sit on it without some decent device too long
26/02/2013 at 18:37

YD - I did worry for you when you said you were going to run 23M on deliberately tired from hills legs the other week. Resting wont hurt you, you have tons in the bank. I missed the first 10 days of March with a calf issue last year and still got back to it ok, just dont try to play catch up.

I try to make sure that my latest pair of trainers has less than about 300M on them for VLM.

26/02/2013 at 20:23
Y D wrote (see)

I wish I had run more last week though, as running isn’t too bad, its just a dull ache and there is no pain what so ever when I stretch. It’s a tendency of mine to back off a bit too much and rest when more often than not resting isn’t the answer.

Better to be over cautious than over optimistic. You unecessarily might miss a few days this way, but better than missing a few weeks whilst recovering from over-doing it. Fingers crossed for your recovery. The uphill walk sounds promising.

Good idea about the shoes YD. I think a couple of short runs, a MLR and then a LSR will probably be best rather than rushing to try out at a 20 inc MP.

How many miles do you run in your race shoes before you change them TR?

I don't want to open up the debate, but am interested in what Minni does Fraser. When it comes to red and purple liquids Minni seems to be an expert!

5m very stiff this afternoon, but felt better as the run went on. 

Edited: 26/02/2013 at 20:25
26/02/2013 at 20:40
26/02/2013 at 20:49

Keir - anywhere between about 600M to 1000M I guess, But dont forget that outside of VLM season I'm only ~100M/month.

26/02/2013 at 21:15
YD - I hope the run goes well tonight and you've seen the back of your niggle/injury. Well done for stepping back - that's not something easily done.

Keir - I did a lot of reading about beet juice last year. At that time there was no evidence that prolonged use of beet juice made any difference to taking it for a short time prior to races. The recommendation was to take it for 4 days before a race, with race day being no 4. I think when I juiced my own I had about 300ml per day ( in one go).

Does it work? I don't know. I've taken it before main races and done well, however, I've also trained hard for them. It agrees with me and apart from the red pee doesn't have any side effects. Perhaps there's something in it or maybe it just placebo but either way I'm willing to stick with it.

I don't know if anyone was been following the Asics threads? I've tried to lurk on and off but find it hard to keep up. Anyway, they ran a HM a week or so ago and Ruth the diet lady had them eating masses the day before - carbon loading big time. I think some of them were struggling with the amount they had it eat and I wondered how they'd get around with out bursting. On the day they all ran really good PBs and all thought the big food has helped.
Edited: 26/02/2013 at 21:18
26/02/2013 at 21:21
Minni. Only pulling your leg! You've got to fight for your right to juice. I tried it myself ( I'll give anything a bash) but it made me boak ....

Will have aloof at that's asics thread. Interesting they were doing just for a half.
26/02/2013 at 21:26
That's the good thing about the shots Fraser, just take deep breath, close your eyes and down in one. It's over before you know it.
26/02/2013 at 21:38

Went out for a few miles tonight, first 4 miles felt great, but then I started to get some aching in the IT band on the left side. As the run progressed the aching spread across the back of my knee and got steadily worse for a couple of miles then to just stayed the same for a couple of miles.
I have suspected the IT band was at the root of the issue for a couple of days now, tonights run suggest this is the case, but going to get a professional opinion to be sure.
It’s actually the best run I have had so far, so suggests the work I have been doing is starting to improve things. Think I will just keep to short daily runs to help keep things ticking over, hopefully I can start to increase the miles soon.

Positive that the run eased the stiffness the further you ran tonight Keir. As for the shoe plan, that’s exactly what I have been doing with my new Marathon shoes. Done a few MLR’s/long tempos in them and am ready to test them out on a long run now.

Saw the Mo interview today, funny

Minni - how much do the shots cost? Are the special shots any better than getting a couple of litres of beet juice from a health food store or supermarket? i.e. is the nitrate concentrate levels any different?

Edited: 26/02/2013 at 21:46
26/02/2013 at 22:03
Minni wrote (see)
Ruth the diet lady had them eating masses the day before - carbon loading big time. 

What were they eating? Coal? 

I know SIS do some nitrate gels, but haven't tried them. Interesting as SIS tend to avoid jumping on any old band wagon. For example they don't (or at least last time I checked) make any during race carb drink with added protein.

What ITB exercises are you doing YD? I know Phil recomended some to me a few years ago which worked well. 

26/02/2013 at 22:23

Foam rolling and the stretch where lie on your back you bring your leg down over the other leg and point your foot at 9 o’clock or 3 o’clock depending on the leg.
Also tried the butt band stretch tonight, seemed like a good one.


27/02/2013 at 08:47

Minni - I would carb up for a 1/2 too, but I only do d1/2s as 1/2IM prep so do them after a 3hr bike the day before and no taper, so need the calories. Still seem to run ok though so carbing up works for me.

27/02/2013 at 09:41

I certainly have one leg on the bench Woke up with a sore leg from last nights run suggesting I pushed it a bit far. I have checked, I can defer my Marathon entry for a year, hope it doesn’t come to that!
Physio appointment booked for tomorrow night.

As for carbing up, why would you need to carb up for a half? How many calories will a fit person burn during a half, a thousand maybe? Surely a reasonable portion of carbs the night before and some carbs for breakfast will be sufficient to get you through without any issues?

27/02/2013 at 10:23

YD - Patience will certainly be a virtue for you, but you know that anyway!

But even a full 7-10 days out wouldnt derail you for Manchester.

As for carbing up for a half, it is just a way of taking extra baggage around with you, ie pointless. Although those pints of liquid refreshment before GNR that we had didnt seem to do too much harm


Keir - That run description sounds fine, just the expected stiffness that did its best to loosen off as the run progressed. Should be ok by the weekend.

27/02/2013 at 10:25

You could try for this YD

Seriously, it is early days. See what the physio says.

I also don''t carb load nor take on gels or energy drinks for a HM. 

27/02/2013 at 11:10

That crutch record is rubbish, I reckon that’s a shoe in for me! At least I have a plan B if I cant run it.

Not worried about losing two weeks training, the concern is when it becomes two weeks of no training and two weeks limited miles while I build back up, before I know it I am half way through March with a month of low miles and no quality running behind me.
I will see what the physio says, fingers crossed he gets me back to it soon. If not I had thought that maybe the Edinburgh Marathon at the end of May might be a good fallback should I want a bit longer to prepare after a time out. But that’s not a call I can make just yet.

27/02/2013 at 12:03

Although it is early to be making definate plans, I think having a back up marathon is a good call. 2 years ago at my first sub 3 attempt I was ill in the week leading up to the marathon. Instead of wasting the fitness I found a marathon in Orpington. Although not ideal for a sub 3, I still managed a good run and pb'd. 

27/02/2013 at 13:07

I think Ruth did also say that seasoned runners may not need to carbo load as much as newcomers but maybe we're all missing a trick here....?

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