RW Forum Six – Sub 2.50 Kier with Parkrunfan

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27/02/2013 at 13:25

I think the reason why the Asics lot ate so much before their halves was purely to test carbo loading before the main event, not because Ruth thougth it was needed for a half. I'm definitely going to pay a bit more attention to it this time round. I mean- it can't hurt to eat some extra toast with jam or cereal before going to bed, right? Not much chance of putting on weight in two days...

I think having a back up mara is a great idea. I ended up having a nightmare with the NY cancelation last year. Managed to book San Sebastian three weeks later but there was a lot of unnecessary stress involved...


27/02/2013 at 19:40

Yes Brol I think you're right.  But it didn't do them any harm... I'm thinking of totally pigging out on Saturday.  Actually one of my best half marathons was after a night on champagne cocktails and a deep fried cheese burger  (the burger and cheese were dipped in batter then fried ) at 2 am!  Actually my profile pic is from that half!

27/02/2013 at 20:38
Keir wrote (see)

Although it is early to be making definate plans, I think having a back up marathon is a good call. 2 years ago at my first sub 3 attempt I was ill in the week leading up to the marathon. Instead of wasting the fitness I found a marathon in Orpington. Although not ideal for a sub 3, I still managed a good run and pb'd. 

Good idea, but careful where it leads - one can end up racing both a week or two apart, then the world of back to backs and multi day challenges will beckon.

How do you feel the ultra recovery compares to a normal mara? Those short ultras are really a mara + a 10k, all run at LSR pace, so you should recover fast although the extra distance will maybe give a bit of muscle fatigue but nowt serious.

As for carbo loading, it must depend on the individual's metabolism. Personally I can scoff 5 meals a day without feeling heavy

27/02/2013 at 20:53

Deep fried battered burgers and champagne cocktails. No wonder Fraser has moved to your neck of the woods Minni!

10m after work. Started out at a hobbily 9+m/m, but as I warmed up and stride quickened so did my speed. More comfortable running up hill than on the flat. Wierdly final overall pace was 8.13m/m - exactly the same as Saturday nights pace. 

Results for Saturday are now out. Looks like 2nd place was 8mins ahead of 3rd, but still 41mins behind me. Perhaps I didn't need to be looking over my shoulder quite so much! Much respect for the people who were out there for over 7 hours! I don't think I could have kept moving for that long.

27/02/2013 at 21:07

x-post Poacher. I agree, not really an Ultra, but a Marathon + 10k @ LSR. Certainly recovery is quicker than a full-on marathon, but I think it is taking slightly longer than when I ran the Kent Coastal in training before Abingdon - which was at 7.40m/m. However I went into that fresher than I went into the race on Saturday, was able to fuel better (I actually finished that race with more gels than I started with, there was so much available on course!) and the conditions, terrain and time of day were all worse on Saturday. 

But overall, apart from some muscle fatigue, as you say, I feel pretty good. 

28/02/2013 at 14:27

3m this morning. Had to cut the planned 5m easy short as the hip stiffness has returned  My own fault as I haven't continued to stretch since Saturday. 

01/03/2013 at 09:23

Quiet here the past few days.

11m this morning. Almost tempted to try for one of those 5k @ 10k pace, but thought better of it due to dark and continued stiffness. Would probably have got half way, realised I was off pace and ended the session disappointed. Instead sped up throughout the 11m starting at 9m/m + and ending with some miles in the low 7s. Still keeping it easy to complete the recovery from the past weekend.

02/03/2013 at 20:19

Saturday. Not much happened. 

02/03/2013 at 20:22
No running today Keir?

I've got a HM tomorrow but suffering today with a hangover and a trapped nerve in my groin!
02/03/2013 at 20:25

Still complaining about the hangover? Thats lasted all day. Must have been a good friday night!

Trapped nerve sounds painful. Actually sounds like a footballers injury. Is the injury and hangover somehow related?

I have the Kent 20m Champs tomorrow, but not getting involved in all that racing. Strictly sticking to PRFs plan of 10m @ 7m/m, 10m @ 6.30m/m.

02/03/2013 at 20:35
No not related! Had the nerve pain first. I get it occasionally and running tends to release it but at the moment on strong painkillers and hoping it will have gone by the morning.

Good luck with the pacing tomorrow!
03/03/2013 at 16:45
How was the HM Minnie? I hope the head and groin cleared enough to allow a good run.

I did the Thanet 20m today around Ramsgate. Lovely day for a coastal run with only a slight breeze which picked up throughout but nice and sunny.

Despite resting yesterday I was still stiff all around hip and lower back area. A mate who saw me at the HQ said he was shocked I was running and said he thought I should recover more instead. I must admit hobbling whilst walking and when warming up doesn't breed confidence!

After a first mile in 6.40 I settled into a group running 6.52m/m garmin pace which was spot on 7m/m on the route. Took it steady on the climbs up the cliff, especially as i could feel stiffness in my thighs on the first one, dropping back through the group but leading on the descents. Perceived effort good although 162 is marathon bpm. Buts hip flexors tight and having to force the legs to move quick enough. Also useful to know that my new double skin 1000mile socks and my insoles rub together meaning my feet were slipping slightly in my shoes with every strike and making my feet a bit hot.

Hit 10m to plan in 1.9.36 and enjoyed the feeling of suddenly dropping people and catching those who had been dangling ahead. Comfortable at 6.30 but this averaged 6.35m/m after a few drags and turns. But by 15m I could feel that I wasn't running smoothly and was forcing things. Cardio wise things were tough but bearable but I was rocking and using my shoulders to move. Pain in glutes and hips was now concerning and pace was slowing despite the fact I was still passing people. At 17m I decided to back off to avoid injury and run 7.30m/m for the final bit, although this wasn't that much better. Finish time 1.18.54 I although the guys I was close to at 17m were in the 2.16s.

When I finished my left leg was really painful when I lifted it to walk with every step, but was ok after driving home.

Fitness wise I feel I am a little behind where I need to be, but close. However I am now really concerned that my back stiffness is getting worse, making everything hip wise hurt at different times and this is now affecting my training, performance but even day to day walking. Need to phone the physio on Monday urgently.
03/03/2013 at 17:30
Fingers crossed that the physio can get you sorted out quickly!
03/03/2013 at 18:08

Sensible running there Keir to back off when you had to: TR will quote matches.

03/03/2013 at 19:50

Best not to push too much at the moment Keir.  Get to a physio and fingers crossed it will be something simple.  2.18 is still a very good time!!

03/03/2013 at 20:02

Thanks for the positivity.

Edited: 03/03/2013 at 20:03
03/03/2013 at 20:09

Keir - similar to you today but I DNF.   The problem was the option was always there with 7 laps.  Nerve pain gone but had left some tightness around my hip and glute.  I did 5@ HMP before dropping back to 5@ MP then decided to call it a day - I have another HM next weekend.  Unfortunately I discovered I was first lady when I withdrew.   Bigger picture and all that.

I'm thinking about a visit to my more expensive physio this week (instead of my cheaper one who is very good but I the more expensive one is topnotch).

03/03/2013 at 20:26

Keir - saving matches indeed, well done, It was always going to be a tough ask so soon after that 32M race, and heavy on the matches. Dont force it now, you have been doing plenty enough for the 2:50 attempt.

minni - make sure that you're healthy first though ! also whatever happened to Mrs Obama did she get the red card ?

PMJ - agreed, keep the matches in the box. I like to think that I've got a well stacked match box at the mo, but need to work out how many to burn to reach a nice peak. So I mulled it over and I guess that the answer is as few as possible. So now I'm going to merely try to bag a few progressive 20s and put some ~MP in some midweekers and that will do me.

Edited: 03/03/2013 at 20:31
04/03/2013 at 07:42

I've been having no end of problems accessing RW the last few days, perhaps others have too which may explain why it has been quiet?

Keir - Perfect execution of the 20 miler yesterday, especially the backing off from mile 17 when you noticed warning signs. It also shows that the basic recovery from last week was pretty swift as would be expected.

Obviously of more concern now is what the outcome of the physio's assessment is. Fingers crossed it is something that just needs loosening up.


Minni - Very sensible. If you had known you were first would it have made a difference to your decision? Your symptons sound spookily similar to Keir's, so a comparison of physio assessments will be interesting.

04/03/2013 at 11:41

Phoned the physio - They are fully booked until next Friday, although I am not top of the waiting list. 

I know what is wrong and dug out the piece of paper I was given last year with recommended exercises and have found another couple to do. The only reason I wanted to see the physio was for a bit of lower back manipulation and have a massage booked for next week which helps the muscles a bit, but not as focused on moving vertibrate. 

So, should I try to find another physio or will I just be wasting time with them as they will want to go through the whole diagnosis again?

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