RW Forum Six – Sub 2.50 Kier with Parkrunfan

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05/03/2013 at 12:50

Rubbish excuse YD. There's always barefoot running!  Although with 2 right feet I would imagine you were a killer on the dance floor.  Sorry to hear about the lack of mileage. Being in your same position last year, and pretty close to it again this time I do sympathise. Thanks for the smart call comment although at the time it felt a bit like a failure. 

You've pushed things pretty hard recently Minni. Your mileage is very high and you have put in some good sessions so it might be a case you a message from your body.

I'm glad you can get back on to post PRF. I have decided to stay with the physio, as I know they are good (I saw 2 others over 6 weeks last year before this one diagnosed me and I got better). As well as the top of the waiting list I have booked in for next Friday. The problem is they do have day time appoitments, but I need one after 4pm, which are in high demand.

That said, I am sure that the issue stems from tight 3 - 4th vertibrate. Yesterday afternoon / evening I spent 30mins rolling aorund on a tennis ball, 10mins on the foam roller and 20mins stretching. This seemed to help and I was able to run, very wobbly and stiffly this morning. I had 12m steady on the plan, so got up at 5.30 but due to stiffness had to jog / walk / stretch throughout and only covered 8m in the 90mins. However as the run continued and I stretched more I felt better, so I am sure the potential to recover is there.

The problem is getting the balance right between doing enough decent running to keep the training progressing and not doing too much to put me back and make the stiffness worse. I am very much aware that time is ticking and I am in the peak training time, so every day / session missed is another handful of seconds I will be behind on the big day. Then again, the most important this is making it to the startline in one piece. 

05/03/2013 at 12:55

x-post - I have been wondering about MM as well Minni. I hope she is ok. Last post she was talking about a toe injury and seeing a physio. 

It certainly is a good time of the year for Physios!


On a more amusing note, a colleague yesterday told me that Cheryl Baker is running VLM, and that they knew because she called in at their house to have a mid run gingerbreadman at the weekend. Turns out Cheryl was running with a mutual friend of my colleague when on passing ther house she got caught short (or rather her buck started to fizz). 

05/03/2013 at 13:00

Lol that is so funny Keir!

You're right about getting to the start line in one piece - that's the real challenge.

05/03/2013 at 13:17

Oh thanks guys for worrying about me. I am here and have been reading but not posting as life just so manic. I read and then something happens. Wee girl watching cBeebies so I have a few mins peace!

Had a knee wobble myself 10 days ago, had to have 3 days off and missed one long run, but seems OK now. Lots of other niggles but hopeful can keep them at bay. Knee just gave out while on a run with the fast boys at the club but was fine on stairs etc very odd. So 3 days later I ran and it was pretty OK. It feels like its going to give way quite a bit at the start of every run but once the first 1.5 mils is done it seems to be OK. Fingers crossed. 88 miles last week with 24.5 on Sat and a 10k race but run at MP on Sunday. A very social weekend too which didn't help with the exhaustion levels plus my better half started a new job yesterday so has been in rather an odd mood all weekend. Combine that with FIL staying and doing some house hunting with him, its been rather full on!!!

This week is another big week probably about the same 88-90 with the Intercounties x-country on Sat in Brum. Not easing down at all tbh other than just running steady on thursday instead of caning it with the boys at club. Not expecting a great xc race but good to get a county vest on again and experience it as been a few years, well about 8 to be exact! Easy week next week and a mini taper for Reading half. So looking forward to an easier week tbh, and really looking forward to the month off I have planned after London!!

So sorry to hear of your injuries Keir. Have you tried an osteopath? I see one regularly and keeps my back in shape. I also do pilates once a week which stretches me out and works a treat. I do hate mind you and clock watch for the entire hour!!!

I am terrified about not making it to the start line. I got injured in Jan last year and was out for 3 months so am anal about all my exercises to prevent that and other stretching and strength exercises. I also get regular massage and osteopath sessions.

Hope you feel better too Minni...

05/03/2013 at 13:19

Oh my arthritc foot is on going and will be forever sadly. Had an x-ray last week to confirm arthritis. Physio just helps alleviate the swelling a bit. Its pretty good this week though. I have found some bunion pads on the medical shelf in the chemist and they seem to be really helping for the long runs. A kind of gel pad. Sadly just something I have to manage as I will get flare ups from time to time and it will always be worse in winter ...

05/03/2013 at 14:08

YD - sorry to hear things are looking a bit ropey. When will you make a definite decision one way or t'other ? Are there places left in Edinburgh in May??

Keep your nerve Keir. There's loads of top training banked - don't let it go to waste with silly nonsense at this stage

I wonder if Baker had to think for a while Making her Mind Up before having that semipublic gingerbread. Perhaps she had to get a male colleague to dramatically remove her skirt in a comical pirouetting crazee dance move pre evacuation. If she thinks it wouldn't get gossiped about however she's In the Land of Make Believe. At least no one was taking photos I hope cos The Camera Never Lies

Errr....can't think of any more. I suspect that's their "greatest" hits in brief

05/03/2013 at 16:16
parkrunfan wrote (see)

My last week's training.

Can you talk me through the logic of Monday and Tuesday off after a hard weekend but then seeming to get the 4 hard sessions into 5 days with the only concession cutting the Sunday 20 to a 16. Those 5 days look hard and if it was necessary to rest 2 days I would have thought 3 hard runs in 5 days enough.

Edited: 05/03/2013 at 16:16
05/03/2013 at 16:41

MM - glad to see you're ok, although hectic as usual.  I too missed a marathon due to injury a couple of years ago so I'm happy to step back now if need be.  I wouldn't want to go through that again - it was like a bereavement.

Keir - I've now made an appointment with my more senior physio (insofar as he is more expensive that the one I normally use) because I met him in the bakers at lunchtime (a chance meeting, I haven't seen him for 18 months) and we discussed my niggles and he thought I should see him!  I'm so gullible.

Frazer -  showing your age!

05/03/2013 at 16:57

Funny RE: Cheryl Baker Keir, Frazer wins the pundown!
My physio says its my freaky hips that are the problem, thing is, its my freaky hips that make me an such an excellent dancer…….

On a mroe serious note Keir, I imagine this is a very frustrating period for you, after such a solid start back in Jan, things looked to be building nicely. As Frazer says, get healthy and the rest will fall into place.

Good luck with niggles MM and Minni

Fraser - the Edinburgh Marathon website says places are available. If I want to defer my Manchester Marathon entry until next year I have to decide by the 17th March (next Sunday). So, D day next week.
The other option is to keep my Manchester entry and just jog it and use it as a long training run. That is assuming I am ok to run the distance but maybe am not race fit. That could fit with an Edinburgh plan, a full distance run @ MP+60 seconds 4 weeks out could be useful, but expensive at £50.
Other option is, defer Manchester, forget the Marathon this spring, just get fit and then make race plans once I am fit, it shouldnt take long to get back up to speed once I am running pain free.

Edited: 05/03/2013 at 16:58
06/03/2013 at 15:01

Feeling a bit better today. But will continue the recovery and go for a 5m easy run. 

I am still hoping to stick to the plan of the HM on Sunday. With this in mind PRF, if recovery continues and I feel ok to run harder tomorrow, would I be better attempting the run a progressive 10m within or the 5k @ 10k pace.

07/03/2013 at 09:30

Finally sorted the tech problems (I think)!

Minni - It sounds like your bigger picture head is well and truly screwed on in that case

YD - Top quality haplessness And a bargain too, just when I need some.........
As we mentioned before, a couple of down weeks may turn out to be a positive based on how much work you had already got in the bag but of course you could do with the frustration coming to an end pretty soon now.

And it sounds like you have your options worked out rationally!

Keir - That makes more sense re the physio appts, it did seem like a long time to wait for any appt at all.

It seems to be a delicate balancing act between training and giving yourself healing time. I know we always have that kind of balancing act going on to some extent but this sounds like a proper ballache. Has it disappeared with no explanation in the past or is that just wishful thinking?

I think a progressive 10 is going to put more strain on your infrstructure than a 5K at 10K pace (and the HM will produce similar training benefits anyway) so try the latter but with a cuatious start and longer than normal warm up.

Love the CB anecdote

PMJ - I'm not sure I understand the question. I do whatever session feels most appropriate on any given day with an eye on getting the right overall mix of sessions in over each 3-4 week period.

Edited: 07/03/2013 at 09:30
07/03/2013 at 17:40
parkrunfan wrote (see)

PMJ - I'm not sure I understand the question. I do whatever session feels most appropriate on any given day with an eye on getting the right overall mix of sessions in over each 3-4 week period.

So it is really about the benefit of a day off versus a day with a recovery run, and then having two days off and then back at full bore.

07/03/2013 at 18:01

It disappeared after the Moonlight Ultra, but came back 3 days later. Last year I just stopped running for a couple of months

At the moment, wth lots of stretching, easy running and rubbing myself with a tennis ball / foam roller, it is easing every day. I'll go out now for a few miles w/u and run the 5k on the track and see how I am tomorrow.

07/03/2013 at 18:25

Keir - I've been to see the physio today.  A lot of money to tell me there's nothing really wrong!  I'm pleased there's no signs of injury though.  Basically my lower back was a bit tight and he did some ultrasound and worked on loosening it off, my hips too.  He's given me some exercises to do to help keep it loose and suggested some of them before I get out of bed in the morning.  Not sure about that though - Mr Minni might get the wrong idea and I have no time for that nonsense in the mornings!

I'm still feeling slightly under the weather and think I must have a low grade virus, which is making things ache. 

He lectured me on posture too......


07/03/2013 at 20:58
Good news Minni (though not for Mr Minni it seems) and hope you are feeling better soon

How did the test run go Keir?
07/03/2013 at 23:20

Minni that’s good that there is nothing obvious wrong

Keir – how was the test run?

I have been to see the physio again, he gave my quads, hammies and hips a right pounding, it bloody hurt!
He has recommended I take a week off running to give the hamstring damage time to heal while I work on the exercises he has given me (some new extra tough ones tonight).
He is sure it’s not serious I just need to get my legs balanced out, but I reckon the Manchester Marathon is off for me now, at least as a race, I could probably jog it. Edinburgh the month after might be an option, depends how soon I get back to proper training really.
Not too upset, there’s plenty good races to target once I am fit again!

08/03/2013 at 10:23

I arrived at the track after parents evening and bumped into my triclub who were doing a running session around the local streets. I decided to join them for a warm-up few miles and started enjoying myself so contined for them for 90mins of fartlek rather than running the 5k on the track.  But I it did include 2 x 3/4m @ 5.50m/m pace. 

However, I am at the point now where I am not enjoying running. Reading back on my posts on this thread over the past week I can see my enthuasim waning and fustration growing. Every run is a chore and I am mentally not looking forward to any run. Actually going out with the club last night, chatting to people with upcoming Rome and Paris marathons helped to regain a bit of this motivation.

A club mate noticed how I seem to 'waddle' when running easy and yet run smoothly when running fast and certainly this is how I feel. However after running fast I am then in a much worse position the next few days. Today I am really waddling when walking around - each leg is an effort to lift up and move at the top my thighs. I am stretching a lot, but this is not getting better. I am seeing the physio and receiving a massage next week, and got the recommendation of a local chiropodist from a clubmate last night. 

The thing is I feel as if I am quite fit and if my lower back allowed my legs to move freely then I should have some excellent endurance (although a bt of a lack of speed) come marathon day. But at the moment there doesn't seem to be anything much I can do. I will run 5m easy today, maybe the same tomorrow and then run hard at the HM. That way I am still maintaining some fitness and hopefully the massage on Tuesday will mean I can run steady again on Weds. 

08/03/2013 at 10:26

I hope that is good news Minni. Sometimes receiving the news that nothing is wrong, yet it still feels wrong, Is the most fustrating news of all. 

Good perspective YD. I am trying to maintain a similar positive outlook and not thinking about it all too much. A colleagues favourite quote springs to mind: 'Manage the art of the possible'.

Good training PRF. I am glad that at least one of us is still on track. 

08/03/2013 at 10:57

Not a surprise you are not enjoying it Keir, I have to say I have felt the same way since my recent issues started up.

People (usually non runners) often say to me that I am so disciplined and dedicated doing all the training I do. I simply reply I am not particularly disciplined or dedicated as it requires no discipline or dedication to run as much as I do because I love doing it. I would do more if my body let me!
However, when things aren’t going well or I am injured, keeping on training requires discipline and dedication as your motivation inevitably drops. Don’t have any answers I am afraid but just keep on keeping on and hopefully with some careful management you can get back to it Keir.
Also annoying about the easy running ‘waddle’, faster running setting things off catch 22. Any idea why running fast would aggravate a back complaint where waddling doesn’t?

08/03/2013 at 11:35

Keir - It seems like a complete dilemma all round. In some ways it would be easier to deal with if it was a complete injury, marathon plans were abandoned and you could just get on with recovering.

But as it is you know that you are basically fit for purpose but with a background annoyance loitering around. And as a result, as you say, it is making it increasingly difficult to maintain any decent level of motivation and/or enjoymentl.

Much as it is a last resort, I think the HM on Sunday is going to give feedback one way or the other about whether a deferral might be the best option. There is no point in getting seriously broken for the sake of a marathon.


Minni - Good news on being basically intact Also nice to see someone using the word loose correctly, it seems like a rare event in recent times

PMJ - I see what you mean now. Tbh though I take each day as it comes and, as a result, the actual sequence of sessions/rest days is probably about as far removed from a 'formal schedule' as you can get.

YD - It could well work reasonably well for you if you take the option you suggested, ie Manchester being used as a laid back 'time on feet' run in prep for Edinburgh. And there are plenty more marathons in future of course....


Edited: 08/03/2013 at 11:36
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