RW Forum Six – Sub 2.50 Kier with Parkrunfan

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04/03/2013 at 21:03

It is difficult to know what to say on that one, Keir, because you're probably as clued up as anyone on the symptoms and possible solutions.

I didnt realise physios were that popular that they had nigh on 2 week waiting lists, must be a decent business to be in!

There must be decent physios around that you can see next day though, surely?


My last week's training.



04/03/2013 at 21:25

Keir - not sure what to recommend.  I resisted the temptation to call the physio today since a cold has come out as the day progressed.  I think I'm just feeling a bit low and its making things ache.  Going to take a couple of days off, does up with Nightnurse, eat well and hope for the best.

parkrunfan wrote (see)

Minni - Very sensible. If you had known you were first would it have made a difference to your decision?

No, I'd decided when I started that if it wasn't right I'd stop.  I knew it was crucial not to push so hard that I got a crap time and ended up needing a week to recover.  I still got a quality 10 in, just not quite what I'd hoped for on the day.

04/03/2013 at 21:59

Keir – sounds like a well-executed run the other day at the Thanet 20m, as others have said backing off like you did was the smart call.
As for the physio, probably not something your wife or wallet wants to hear, but wouldn’t a 2nd opinion be a good thing anyway? Diagnosis might be the same but the other physio might have some other treatment ideas, just a thought…….

Fingers crossed it’s just a bit of man flu taking the edge off Minni. A couple of days off won’t do you much harm with all the good training you have banked already.

I just got back from a long weekend at Centre Parcs this afternoon, not much running due to injury and I took two right foot trainers with me, doh!!!
I just bought two pairs of the same shoes due to a bargain online price last week (2 x Green Silence for £53 delivered) and I somehow got the pairs mixed up. So my only run was in a pair of sneakers/fashion type trainers!
Not much running in general for me, 12 miles last week and 13 miles the week before, Marathon training this aint! Hoping to get a breakthrough this week, if not I might have to start thinking seriously about alternate race plans.

05/03/2013 at 12:41

I was wondering how your running/not running was going YD.  You've done well to back right off.  Hopefully this week will show some improvement for you.

Where's Michie Moo?

05/03/2013 at 12:50

Rubbish excuse YD. There's always barefoot running!  Although with 2 right feet I would imagine you were a killer on the dance floor.  Sorry to hear about the lack of mileage. Being in your same position last year, and pretty close to it again this time I do sympathise. Thanks for the smart call comment although at the time it felt a bit like a failure. 

You've pushed things pretty hard recently Minni. Your mileage is very high and you have put in some good sessions so it might be a case you a message from your body.

I'm glad you can get back on to post PRF. I have decided to stay with the physio, as I know they are good (I saw 2 others over 6 weeks last year before this one diagnosed me and I got better). As well as the top of the waiting list I have booked in for next Friday. The problem is they do have day time appoitments, but I need one after 4pm, which are in high demand.

That said, I am sure that the issue stems from tight 3 - 4th vertibrate. Yesterday afternoon / evening I spent 30mins rolling aorund on a tennis ball, 10mins on the foam roller and 20mins stretching. This seemed to help and I was able to run, very wobbly and stiffly this morning. I had 12m steady on the plan, so got up at 5.30 but due to stiffness had to jog / walk / stretch throughout and only covered 8m in the 90mins. However as the run continued and I stretched more I felt better, so I am sure the potential to recover is there.

The problem is getting the balance right between doing enough decent running to keep the training progressing and not doing too much to put me back and make the stiffness worse. I am very much aware that time is ticking and I am in the peak training time, so every day / session missed is another handful of seconds I will be behind on the big day. Then again, the most important this is making it to the startline in one piece. 

05/03/2013 at 12:55

x-post - I have been wondering about MM as well Minni. I hope she is ok. Last post she was talking about a toe injury and seeing a physio. 

It certainly is a good time of the year for Physios!


On a more amusing note, a colleague yesterday told me that Cheryl Baker is running VLM, and that they knew because she called in at their house to have a mid run gingerbreadman at the weekend. Turns out Cheryl was running with a mutual friend of my colleague when on passing ther house she got caught short (or rather her buck started to fizz). 

05/03/2013 at 13:00

Lol that is so funny Keir!

You're right about getting to the start line in one piece - that's the real challenge.

05/03/2013 at 13:17

Oh thanks guys for worrying about me. I am here and have been reading but not posting as life just so manic. I read and then something happens. Wee girl watching cBeebies so I have a few mins peace!

Had a knee wobble myself 10 days ago, had to have 3 days off and missed one long run, but seems OK now. Lots of other niggles but hopeful can keep them at bay. Knee just gave out while on a run with the fast boys at the club but was fine on stairs etc very odd. So 3 days later I ran and it was pretty OK. It feels like its going to give way quite a bit at the start of every run but once the first 1.5 mils is done it seems to be OK. Fingers crossed. 88 miles last week with 24.5 on Sat and a 10k race but run at MP on Sunday. A very social weekend too which didn't help with the exhaustion levels plus my better half started a new job yesterday so has been in rather an odd mood all weekend. Combine that with FIL staying and doing some house hunting with him, its been rather full on!!!

This week is another big week probably about the same 88-90 with the Intercounties x-country on Sat in Brum. Not easing down at all tbh other than just running steady on thursday instead of caning it with the boys at club. Not expecting a great xc race but good to get a county vest on again and experience it as been a few years, well about 8 to be exact! Easy week next week and a mini taper for Reading half. So looking forward to an easier week tbh, and really looking forward to the month off I have planned after London!!

So sorry to hear of your injuries Keir. Have you tried an osteopath? I see one regularly and keeps my back in shape. I also do pilates once a week which stretches me out and works a treat. I do hate mind you and clock watch for the entire hour!!!

I am terrified about not making it to the start line. I got injured in Jan last year and was out for 3 months so am anal about all my exercises to prevent that and other stretching and strength exercises. I also get regular massage and osteopath sessions.

Hope you feel better too Minni...

05/03/2013 at 13:19

Oh my arthritc foot is on going and will be forever sadly. Had an x-ray last week to confirm arthritis. Physio just helps alleviate the swelling a bit. Its pretty good this week though. I have found some bunion pads on the medical shelf in the chemist and they seem to be really helping for the long runs. A kind of gel pad. Sadly just something I have to manage as I will get flare ups from time to time and it will always be worse in winter ...

05/03/2013 at 14:08

YD - sorry to hear things are looking a bit ropey. When will you make a definite decision one way or t'other ? Are there places left in Edinburgh in May??

Keep your nerve Keir. There's loads of top training banked - don't let it go to waste with silly nonsense at this stage

I wonder if Baker had to think for a while Making her Mind Up before having that semipublic gingerbread. Perhaps she had to get a male colleague to dramatically remove her skirt in a comical pirouetting crazee dance move pre evacuation. If she thinks it wouldn't get gossiped about however she's In the Land of Make Believe. At least no one was taking photos I hope cos The Camera Never Lies

Errr....can't think of any more. I suspect that's their "greatest" hits in brief

05/03/2013 at 16:16
parkrunfan wrote (see)

My last week's training.

Can you talk me through the logic of Monday and Tuesday off after a hard weekend but then seeming to get the 4 hard sessions into 5 days with the only concession cutting the Sunday 20 to a 16. Those 5 days look hard and if it was necessary to rest 2 days I would have thought 3 hard runs in 5 days enough.

Edited: 05/03/2013 at 16:16
05/03/2013 at 16:41

MM - glad to see you're ok, although hectic as usual.  I too missed a marathon due to injury a couple of years ago so I'm happy to step back now if need be.  I wouldn't want to go through that again - it was like a bereavement.

Keir - I've now made an appointment with my more senior physio (insofar as he is more expensive that the one I normally use) because I met him in the bakers at lunchtime (a chance meeting, I haven't seen him for 18 months) and we discussed my niggles and he thought I should see him!  I'm so gullible.

Frazer -  showing your age!

05/03/2013 at 16:57

Funny RE: Cheryl Baker Keir, Frazer wins the pundown!
My physio says its my freaky hips that are the problem, thing is, its my freaky hips that make me an such an excellent dancer…….

On a mroe serious note Keir, I imagine this is a very frustrating period for you, after such a solid start back in Jan, things looked to be building nicely. As Frazer says, get healthy and the rest will fall into place.

Good luck with niggles MM and Minni

Fraser - the Edinburgh Marathon website says places are available. If I want to defer my Manchester Marathon entry until next year I have to decide by the 17th March (next Sunday). So, D day next week.
The other option is to keep my Manchester entry and just jog it and use it as a long training run. That is assuming I am ok to run the distance but maybe am not race fit. That could fit with an Edinburgh plan, a full distance run @ MP+60 seconds 4 weeks out could be useful, but expensive at £50.
Other option is, defer Manchester, forget the Marathon this spring, just get fit and then make race plans once I am fit, it shouldnt take long to get back up to speed once I am running pain free.

Edited: 05/03/2013 at 16:58
06/03/2013 at 15:01

Feeling a bit better today. But will continue the recovery and go for a 5m easy run. 

I am still hoping to stick to the plan of the HM on Sunday. With this in mind PRF, if recovery continues and I feel ok to run harder tomorrow, would I be better attempting the run a progressive 10m within or the 5k @ 10k pace.

07/03/2013 at 09:30

Finally sorted the tech problems (I think)!

Minni - It sounds like your bigger picture head is well and truly screwed on in that case

YD - Top quality haplessness And a bargain too, just when I need some.........
As we mentioned before, a couple of down weeks may turn out to be a positive based on how much work you had already got in the bag but of course you could do with the frustration coming to an end pretty soon now.

And it sounds like you have your options worked out rationally!

Keir - That makes more sense re the physio appts, it did seem like a long time to wait for any appt at all.

It seems to be a delicate balancing act between training and giving yourself healing time. I know we always have that kind of balancing act going on to some extent but this sounds like a proper ballache. Has it disappeared with no explanation in the past or is that just wishful thinking?

I think a progressive 10 is going to put more strain on your infrstructure than a 5K at 10K pace (and the HM will produce similar training benefits anyway) so try the latter but with a cuatious start and longer than normal warm up.

Love the CB anecdote

PMJ - I'm not sure I understand the question. I do whatever session feels most appropriate on any given day with an eye on getting the right overall mix of sessions in over each 3-4 week period.

Edited: 07/03/2013 at 09:30
07/03/2013 at 17:40
parkrunfan wrote (see)

PMJ - I'm not sure I understand the question. I do whatever session feels most appropriate on any given day with an eye on getting the right overall mix of sessions in over each 3-4 week period.

So it is really about the benefit of a day off versus a day with a recovery run, and then having two days off and then back at full bore.

07/03/2013 at 18:01

It disappeared after the Moonlight Ultra, but came back 3 days later. Last year I just stopped running for a couple of months

At the moment, wth lots of stretching, easy running and rubbing myself with a tennis ball / foam roller, it is easing every day. I'll go out now for a few miles w/u and run the 5k on the track and see how I am tomorrow.

07/03/2013 at 18:25

Keir - I've been to see the physio today.  A lot of money to tell me there's nothing really wrong!  I'm pleased there's no signs of injury though.  Basically my lower back was a bit tight and he did some ultrasound and worked on loosening it off, my hips too.  He's given me some exercises to do to help keep it loose and suggested some of them before I get out of bed in the morning.  Not sure about that though - Mr Minni might get the wrong idea and I have no time for that nonsense in the mornings!

I'm still feeling slightly under the weather and think I must have a low grade virus, which is making things ache. 

He lectured me on posture too......


07/03/2013 at 20:58
Good news Minni (though not for Mr Minni it seems) and hope you are feeling better soon

How did the test run go Keir?
07/03/2013 at 23:20

Minni that’s good that there is nothing obvious wrong

Keir – how was the test run?

I have been to see the physio again, he gave my quads, hammies and hips a right pounding, it bloody hurt!
He has recommended I take a week off running to give the hamstring damage time to heal while I work on the exercises he has given me (some new extra tough ones tonight).
He is sure it’s not serious I just need to get my legs balanced out, but I reckon the Manchester Marathon is off for me now, at least as a race, I could probably jog it. Edinburgh the month after might be an option, depends how soon I get back to proper training really.
Not too upset, there’s plenty good races to target once I am fit again!

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