RW Forum Six – Sub 2.50 Kier with Parkrunfan

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23/04/2013 at 18:48

carter - 2:54:06

23/04/2013 at 20:54
Great time. Was it a PB ?
23/04/2013 at 21:11

no, my PB is 2:51, so not far off.

23/04/2013 at 21:38

So sorry to hear about the bottle PRF. That is a really nasty way to go out, especially as you have had such a great build up. I was really hoping you would get that 2.49.xx. Hope you recover well in order to achieve that 4.59.xx mile over the summer instead.

It is funny how close we were to each other, especially early on. Having not run VLM before, I didn't realise how small the GFA pen would be and how easy it would have been to meet up, if we had pre-arranged it. I am sorry that I didn't get the chance to shake you hand to thank you for your mentoring. 

I must admit, although I enjoyed VLM as an experience, I am not sure if it is the right place to try to pb. Apart from the bottles all over the place, I found it really hard to judge my pace. With so many runners it was really hard not to get sweapt along, I've nver experienced that before. In other, smaller marathons I've gone from one group to the next, or followed / shared the pace with someone for a few miles, but it was so busy at VLM I wasn't able to turn off and do this. I found the crowds and sights amazing and this would have been great for a 'fun run' but when trying to focus and chase a time, it all added to the distractions and affected my focus. 

Having run it now, I would definately do it again, but I don't think I would try to pb there. Just too many variables.

23/04/2013 at 21:41

Thinking about it, didn't you mispace the race TR? Weren't you after a 2.55 for the collection? Surely you could have walked the Mall? 

23/04/2013 at 21:48

Keir - no, I have 2 x 2:55, I didnt have a 2:54, although I wanst slowing for a 2:54 deliberately. I manage to zone out from the other runners and just run my pace. But i wonder how I'd do at a smaller marathon.

The 2:5X sub3 bingo card now has 2:51, 2:52, 2:53, 2:54 and 2 x 2:55 ticked off. Consistency is key ! As I approach V50 I can allow myself to slow a little to collect the 2:56 to 2:59 !

23/04/2013 at 21:53

But for the complete set, one year you are going to have to have a great from these 1/2IM, continue the running over the summer and come to Abo for that 2:50.

23/04/2013 at 22:06

MrBoat said to me at the Red Lion that if I stopped twatting about on a bike and in a pool and simply just ran, then I'd go sub 2:50, I agree with him. But I'm not sure I will. Being able to run commute all year round is tricky for me, in the winter its easier as there's no outdoor cricket.

Edited: 23/04/2013 at 22:07
23/04/2013 at 22:09
Keir - well done on Sunday! Glad you got there and got the job done in the end.

And you PRF. Sorry to hear you had an incident with a bottle.
23/04/2013 at 22:24

Well done to you as well Minni. Nice PB (despite those pesky few extra seconds) You continue on an upward trend. What's next?

TR - You're just overly multi-skilled. 

23/04/2013 at 22:30
Keir - for the first time in my life the thought of another marathon makes me want to vomit so it looks like it'll be shorter distance for a while!

Those seconds don't bother me. I wanted to finish with 3:1X:xx so very happy. Also confident that I can go faster so got the best of everything!
24/04/2013 at 09:45
Keir, well done on Sunday. You gave it a go and deserve credit. Good luck with the recovery and Abo campaign.
24/04/2013 at 16:00

Keir. Is it too early to reflect on this campaign's ups and downs ?? If it is I'll shuffle off in to the corner......

24/04/2013 at 16:34
parkrunfan wrote (see)

It was a great weekend as always but my race came undone due to a slip on a water bottle around Docklands.

I was at the drinks station at mile23 and spent the majority of the day pushing bottles to the side so the main path was clear. We had about 25,000 lucozade bottles to hand out and we were one of 5 lucozade stations so 125,000 bottles of the sticky stuff before you start to count water. This surely is way too many bottles but I guess for these the big sponsors the incremental cost of 25,000 over 10,000 is minimal.

Keir wrote (see)


I must admit, although I enjoyed VLM as an experience, I am not sure if it is the right place to try to pb.

I think that is a personal statement. Many people PB at VLM. If I look at the results page on po10, there are 204 PBs in the first 350 runners.

Scary thing is age winners:

V40 2:27:29
V45 2:28:35
V50 2:41:32
V55 2:49:37
V60 3:00:00

No easy slots until 60 years, so TR with 50 coming up is not going to get an easy ride.

24/04/2013 at 17:58

thats ok, I harbour no aspirations of trying to win the thing.

24/04/2013 at 18:11

Kier - all my pbs have been at London.   It is easy to get swept along in the first half - I was very strict with my pace and apart from the 3rd mile, which is always fast, I constantly kept my pace in check.  I think the bottle issue must be far worse later when the route is very crowded.   The only issue I had was with someone on the drinks station tidying up and bent down in front of me to pick up an empty bottle!

24/04/2013 at 21:48

Dunce cap and detention for Fraser! 

Not sure about highs and lows. But here are a few brief reflections and learnings:

Pre marathon training through Nov and Dec following a HADD build went well and I could feel and measure progression in fitness, happily running 6 days per week, around 50+mpw.

Weeks 1 - 6 went really well. Sticking with a rest day every week I hit weekly mileage of 55, 53, 74, 57, 63, 73 - although I did have 2 days off over Xmas whilst a bit ill. LSRs built up to 22m by the end of this time and I also continued following a mainly HADD approach with 1x80min @ 80%max HR (sub LT) run per week and a steady MLR. By the end of this period I started preparing for PRFs 10m progressive runs with some MLRs ending with 4-5 progressive miles. Although hard sessions, these gave me quite a bit of confidence and I felt good winning a local muddy duathlon in mid Jan

Over the final 2 weeks of Jan I think my over confidence might have started my downfall. Following a 20m LSR in the snow on Sunday I ran a 16m still in the snow on Monday, a 17m run on Weds inc 7m@ marathon HR and followed that up with a bleep test and core workout. After a 22m the following Sunday I developed a cold.

Weeks 7 - 10 were 50, 72, 61, 61 and week 7 started with that cold but still continued to run with 2 early 5am starts to squeeze in 11m before work and was motivated to do well in a local fast 10k as I was pretty sure if not ill I would pb. Secretly hoping for a long 36min time, I was on pb pace (37.19) with 2k to go, but stitch and a breathing issue meant I completely stopped for 30sec and finished 50sec off my pb, pretty disappointed, although I could put it down to illness. 

Trying to put this behind me in week 8 I covered 70m, inc a pre-progressive 10m (7m @ 6.40m/m then 6.16, 6.00, 5.39) and a 2.5m @ 10k pace, along with a 22m unfuelled. It was on this run - around mile 16, that I first became aware of the hip issue - stopping my legs moving forward properly, resulting in a waddle stride. However it took another week of 60miles before I really recognised this issue.

Even so, I didn't back off, and ran 22m wth a fast finish while carrying the injury, then had to take 2 days off. In panic I then came straight back with a progressive 8m -6.57, 6.56, 6.49, 6.41, 6.34, 6.28, 6.14, 6.04 and an MLR. Despite the injury I still continued with the plan to run my first Ultra - the 33m moonlight ultra. Despite the cold, dark and snow, running 8.15m/m constantly seemed to settle the injury and I comfortably won the event.

In week 11, after resting my legs I was quite confident, but the injury soon returned and although I managed to hit 50m again for the week, the Thanet 20m didn't go as well as planned. The first 10m were ok at 7.00m/m but the planned 10m @ PMP - 6.30m/m broke down after 7m with the hip issue really causing pain and I struggled to walk at all when I finished. After the previous 4 weeks of not quite hitting perfect training, illness and injury I really needed 4 good final weeks. So after this 20m race I became really worried.

Weeks 12 and 13 were pretty much written off, with 19m and 10m weekly totals. I spent the time visiting the physio and getting massages. Although this helped, I know it was all a bit too late. 

Although by week 14 I finally felt I could run pain free and tried to make up for lost time with 72m week it felt a struggle to run decent sessions and I felt tired. It wasn't long before I was ill again and just felt tired all the time. Motivation was pretty low at this point and the marathon felt like something I had to just get done and I wanted it all over so I could be free of the chore. 

So things I have learnt:

1. Underlying niggles and issues, although appear fine at lower mileages, unless addressed will come back and find you out.

2. Despite pressure to move forward, if tired, recover first. I think many of my sessions, especailly the faster ones were compromised and the early mornings took their tool

3. Take into account family. work and weather issues. They all affect training, health and illness.

4. Don't take too much confidence or despondency from races in the build. Easier said than done, but they should be seem more as intense training sessions rather than form guides.

5. 5k @ 10k pace is a tough session to do by yourself. It might well be worth a trip to a park run to get th session done well.

I am sure there are other things as well.


One thing though, I do intend to follow the plan PRF set for me on this thread when I run an autumn marathon (hopefully Abingdon). One of my main weaknesses is speed endurance and I feel that the progressive 10m will be key in tackling this.

24/04/2013 at 22:16

well played Keir, you learn more from the bad runs and ruined campaigns than the good ones. You were doing so well with the Hadding and then did get a bit carried away in the snow. Its a marathon during the build up as well as on the day, and they both need pacing and a lot of match saving along the way. Do not underestimate the affect of life stress, your life is a busy and stressful one. The downs of the rollercoaster make the ups all the better. Keep plugging away.

02/05/2013 at 21:45

Keir, that's a good read. Self analysis (and criticism) is a tough old game and even tougher going public with it. I think you already know that you will come back stronger. Stick with it and you will have your reward.

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