RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30

Sarah Osbourne with Minni

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17/06/2013 at 23:44

Good evening, entered Chester today I think it will fill up this year so don't want to leave it any longer.

Angela I don't think there's anything wrong with hitting shorter distances, it keeps you fresh, is easier on the body and mind, and it is still good prep for marathons When you start to add in longer runs again.

what does the avocado tool do? I love to rub a piece of toast with garlic then spread it with whizzed avacado, not quite guacamole bit really good

18/06/2013 at 08:42

Acocado tool was potentially a waste of money as a knife, spoon and fork or potato masher do the same thing... Basically it has a scoopy slicey bit on one end, and a masher on the other end...

i think it probably is best to stick with shorter distances, tho I was really hoping to get my sub 4 this year, it would have taken a perfect trainincampaign o get it.  If I can get my 5k and 10k times right down thru the second half of this year then a spring sub 4, or even well below 4 may be more possible...

19/06/2013 at 13:39

Ello ello,

I can only assume that you are all diligently recording your training in your training logs, and will regale the group with them later tin the week

I managed a 3.7 run, though in 2 parts, 2 and from the Dr on Monday.  And then today, I have cycled to 1 station closer to london, and will cycle home from it later today. Just over 6 miles from home.  It was a bit damp this morning, so not the most comfortable.  But a lovely exhilerating start to the day, felt much more alert today than I usually do.

I have been researching later in the year marathons.  Although the only manageable one I've found in the UK is Brentwood, which is offroad, there are LOADS of overseas ones that might be possible, although our budget is so tight at the moment, I think the sensible thing would be to stay in the UK and focus on those shorter races.  Overseas trip would just go on the credit card, no matter how reasonable it was unfortunately...

Anyways, I shall continue talking to myself until someone else feels like posting....

tum te tum.... 


19/06/2013 at 16:12
Feeling very bad for not posting, Angela. Work has been busy, marathon training poor! I need to read back and catch up before properly posting but I hope you have a great cycle home tonight and aren't too tired.
19/06/2013 at 20:46

Andy - great to hear you enjoyed your Scotland trip. We went past the Camera Obscura place but didn't go in. One for next time. We did see Arthur's Seat and the streams of people going up and down. It did look quite cool but we got to the parliament buildings at the end of the day and were worn out by then.

Angela - I think you have the job of chief whip for the thread  Work and children have been consuming me lately. Not literally of course - the kids do bite but they would struggle to eat a whole me. 

Sounds like you're doing well keeping the training ticking over. I'm into week 2 of my build towards TR24. Nice recovery 5 miles on Monday and not so nice 400m intervals yesterday. Rest day today, I'm good at those

I think I am getting excited way too early about TR24. Just over 5 weeks to go - I may need to be sedated!

Mr P - well done on taking the plunge and entering Chester! So that's another one training for the autumn , excellent!

Clive - get that silly black rubber suit off and concentrate on your running man  There is no absolutely no open water at TR24 so you are wasting your time

Dotty - I wouldn't worry, I think we're all struggling to match Angela at the moment. I would say that even Sarah has gone AWOL but she's knee deep in packing at the moment which is a fair enough excuse I guess

I can't remember are you doing an Autumn marathon too?

19/06/2013 at 21:43

But I have a wedding to plan, and two bridesmaids who have decided to get married before me.... They werent engaged when I asked them to be bridesmaids!

we booked the honeymoon! 10 nights in the golf sandals- yippee- you can all send me gifts now- clothes to wear at the honeymoon etc.

dotty I'm jealous ur doing Berlin right?

ive had a thought of doing beachy head marathon... Looking at the course profile, it looks as if sub 5 would be a challenge!

my ccycle home was half a mile longer but 5 minutes quicker- cycling in the dry takes away my fear and I go faster . Feel good for 2 training sessions in a day, even if it was just a couple of easy rides.  Wish I had time to do more double days...

20/06/2013 at 00:10

Malcs you always manage to make me smile. I did england proud stealing of the scotish 

We had our move confirmed as friday today. Its been nice to know that we will def be moving on friday as its been a stressfull week with will we/wont we be moving. Was on call today and had to transfer the money to the solicitor. The local braanch wouldnt let me do it there so I had to go into town instead. What I thought would only take 15 minutes ended up taking almost three hours, this then led to all my jobs for the day backing up so I didnt get to leave work until 8...such a stressfull day. I know moving on friday isnt going to be great but I dont think it will be as bad as today!

I cant believe York is only 18 weeks away. You have me scared now as I dropped something on my foot on sunday and im still unable to run as it hurts. Im starting to panic now...dont like not being able to run. I did 1.5 miles today and had to stop and go on the bike instead 


Hi Angela  think im feeling the same as you did....not enough running, too much eating and now ive just treat myself to a berry cider to celebrate our completion! Im proud of you not eating the carrot cake...alot of people would have!

I tend to do the same circiut when im at the gym. I have thought about doing the lower body one day and the upper body the next but I dont mind getting on with all of it on the same day. Normally takes me about 45 minutes to complete the circuit


Thankyou Andy. I did have a fantstic time although my running has gone down hill since so im getting into a bit of a panic now. I knew I needed at least a weeks break before starting training for york but now it looks like its going to be two weeks (if you exclude the slow 15 miles inbetween) due to my foot being quite sore. I just hope it settles soon as im already getting moody! Glad you liked glasgow/ edinburgh and had a good holiday. Im up in edinburgh in a few weeks time for a hen party...will be completley different to the weekend ive just had! Hope you get a few more runs in this week and good luck for your next 10k

20/06/2013 at 00:21

Sorry again to hear about you not being able to run bournmouth angela but there will be other marathons and races. Your sisters engagment celebrations will be far better im sure. By doing shorter distances this autumn you are sure to speed up ready for a spring marathon. 

Congratulations on your runs and cycles and im terribly sorry that I wasnt around to post...had another busy day with work, teaching after work and then moving house...think I preferred being on holiday!

Fantastic news Mr P on entering turning back now 

Thankyou Malcs for sticking up for me...had a pretty awful week so far. I cant wait for TR24 either, I cant believe that its only 5 weeks seems to be flying by! I recall walking up arthurs seat when I was a kid and loving it. 

20/06/2013 at 09:50

Hi Sarah,

Massive congratulations on getting the moving date!  I remember when I bought my place, I had been back from Australia for almost a year- all my stuff was in my parent's house, and I was living with my sister in New Cross, with pretty much only the stuff I had survived on the previous year witha 20kg baggage allowance.  Because I bought a new build, and I was eager to move in as soon as it was ready, we exchanged and settled on the same day.  I went home to sign the contract on the thursday before the royal wedding, and the 4 day weekend.  I remember sitting at my parents waiting to receive the call that it was settled, so I could get the keys and move in!  they finally called at about 3pm.  Dad drove me to get the keys, but couldn't really help with lifting the boxes up 1 flight of stairs to get me in there... so I did it all alone!!  I vowed that the next time I move, I'm paying movers!!

Sucks not being able to run, doesn't it!  I hope your foot gets better soon- I guess you've been icing it and resting, as much as you can?  I may still eat that carrot cake and make a fresh one.  We are celebrating midsummer's day at our parkrun on Saturday with cake etc to raise some money for Help for Heroes...

So tonight's session was supposed to be 5 miles steady on a hilly course - how can I adapt it so its more suitable for 10k prep?  I will have to totally rejig my training schedule at the weekend - wondering whether I should still keep some of those 20 milers in anyway, to maintain the endurance?  I would think with my bike riding I am probably doing enough for endurance at this stage for a spring marathon - what do we think?

20/06/2013 at 10:30

Angela - well done on making the booking, you can relax (a bit) now.

Angela Isherwood 2 wrote (see)

you can all send me gifts now- clothes to wear at the honeymoon etc.

Which of my clothes would you like for the honeymoon?

Re. your 10K prep - if you have some hills and you're not doing any other speed stuff then I'd be tempted to do some hill reps at speed. Best thing I find for 10K's is intervals. 

Not sure what you mean about the 20 milers. Are you talking about when you start a  training programme for a spring marathon or between now and then? I reckon there is no substuitue for running long when it comes to marathon endurance. Cycling is just not going to do it. It'll keep you fit and improve stamina but it won't do enough for your legs.

However, if you're just talking about in between times then it's not so important. Some people do base building over the summer and autumn in prep for a spring campaign. This is all done very slowly though. Others have a big rest and cross train. I think it's up to you really.

PS. move away from the cake!

Sarah - hang in there, not long now and you'll be in the new house and things can start to return to normal. Hopefully the foot will be sorted by then and you'll be back in business ripping up PBs


20/06/2013 at 15:43
Sarah - congratulations on the new house! Don't envy you the hassle of packing and moving though. Hope the foot is better or can you use it as an excuse to get out of carrying stuff to new house?! Enjoyed reading your race report, well done. Sounded like a tough race.

Malcs - glad you had fun in Edinburgh. You put me to shame as I've never been to see the pandas. I often run round Arthur's Seat, great views of Edinburgh. The other summer I took part in the Speed of Light, it was on during the festival. Volunteer runners got to put on light suits and run about Arthur Seat making patterns. Performing the can can with about 60 other runners at top of the hill at 1am is a lasting memory

Angela - your TR team are so lucky. Carrot cake, my favourite. Sorry to hear you can't do Bourmouth, how selfish of your sister to pick that weekend, tee hee! If you are concentrating on speed and shorter distances this summer, I wouldn't have thought you needed to do 20 miles. It might take too much out of your legs and you won't be able to do your speed sessions effectively.

Feeling a bit more confident regarding training for Berlin. Managed 10miles this morning without too much discomfort. A tennis ball has become my new friend! I'm making sure I do proper stretching after each run too.
Edited: 20/06/2013 at 15:54
20/06/2013 at 15:58

Hi Malcs, do you have a Mankini??

I meant keeping the 20 milers I had planned for the run up to autumn marathon that i now wont be doing.  I guess it doesn't make much sense.  If I'll be doing more intervals and speedwork, uberlong runs as well will probably break me.  I'll keep them to no longer than 15 miles, though more likely around 12, if I'm honest.

Dotty, I may share the cake with people who are not on my TR team, like Malcs, if he gives me a decent gift for my wedding!!


20/06/2013 at 17:21

Angela - If a mankini constitutes a 'decent gift' then you better get that cake ready!

Gotcha re. the 20 milers. I agree with the Dotster - if you're focusing on speed then you don't need to do very long runs. Your revised plan sounds fine.

Dotty - I've never done half the things most people do when they come to London. Always the way, when it's on your doorstep there is no urgency to make use of it, so you never do

Well done on the 10 miles! I always feel a bit depressed coming back to running after a rest. You go from being at your peak to feeling useless. However, it's always surprising how quickly it starts to get more comfortable. I'm on week 2 of my comeback and it's all starting to click again. 

21/06/2013 at 00:31

We've been packing since I got home from work at 18:00 and we still have stuff left to pack and dismantle. This is despite more than 20 hours of never moving again!

after we move in tomorrow we've got to drive up to newcastle as were watching the athletics on saturday and then were going out for a leaving party so I have a feeling im going to struggle to come on here again properly for a few days as we will need to continue unpacking on sunday....wish I had a week off now! Thankyou all for your good luck wishes.

I can't wait to sample this carrot cake at just remember if you can't resist it angela, you need to make another one!

I've always tried to rotate round 10,13,15 miles for my long runs when im not training for a marathon So I agree with everyone else...20 miles might take take too much out of you and stop you from being speedy!

Hey Malcs, the foot is still frustrating and worryimg me but as this house move is taking alot longer than I thought I really don't think I would have the time to run even if it felt ok...just hoping that its ok when I do get chance to run, hopefully after the weekend! I feel reassured by your comment that your fitness quickly returns.

Dotty your speed of light sounded amazing, I wish I'd had chance to do something like that. Congratulations on your 10 miler today, wish I could run ten so annoyed at myself!


Edited: 21/06/2013 at 00:35
21/06/2013 at 09:57

Morning All,

Now I feel bad for being chief whip.... 

Sarah, lots of luck on your move - seen its already been a bit of a stressful morning for you, but thinking of you and sure you will have lots of success and happiness in your new home!

So, I didn't do my hill session last night, instead I convinced OH to take me out for dinner- I had Gammon Egg and Chips.... NAUGHTY!!!!, but I did get up to do a 10k specific session before work- Its one I'd seen in a recent women's running article:

The session was 6x 5 minutes with 90 seconds jog/walk recovery. Intervals 1-3 at tempo pace and intervals 4-6 at 10k pace. I figured tempo would be my half marathon pace at 8:50, and 10k would be somewhere around 8:20. Turns out the paces I ran were about 30s per mile faster than this, which gives me some confidence my next 10k will be a pb.

Here are the paces:
Interval 1: 8:20
Interval 2: 8:19
Interval 3: 8:04
Interval 4: 7:52
Interval 5: 7:48
Interval 6: 7:48

I was really trying to push the last interval, but couldn't get it any faster, and in my cool down I had to give up running after about half a mile as I was just too tired. I think this is pretty good going given I didn't eat before, but I'm not sure how realistic 7:50mm is as a pace for a full 10k.

To get into BQ territory, I would need it to be sub 46 minute 10k. My pb from 2008 is 52:50. Pretty sure I could replicate that today. 7:50 pace would give me sub 49 minutes, so almost 4 minutes off my last pb. I think my next 10k will be Felstead on 14th July, so that's 3 weeks of training. Is that enough to make 49 minutes achievable?




21/06/2013 at 16:18

Ooo another question for the thread- whilst I'm not in marathon prep, do I still have to do my long runs v slow, or can I pick up the pace a bit?

22/06/2013 at 22:41
Angela - To be honest I'm not too clued up on the speedy interval training. Hopefully one of the others can help. I am confident that you will have a shiny new 10k PB this summer! Regarding the longer runs perhaps you could do some MP or even HMP sections in them or some strides at end of run.

Hope everything went well with the move, Sarah and that you don't have a sore head tomorrow when you have to start unpacking.
23/06/2013 at 10:26

Angela - nice interval session. Don't worry that you were tired at the end, that means you were putting everything into it which is great. 

5 mins at that pace will be between half and full mile repeats. So thats good as a long interval. Maybe also do some short ones - 400m reps or 1:30 flat out with 2 min rest. Try and do 8 reps if you can. Concentrate on leg turnover.

Also throw in a threshold run so 5-6 miles, first and last miles at a jog then do the middle set at 10K+ pace.

Do two of these sessions per week with a 2-3 day gap between them and you should see a big difference. With 3 weeks to go you could squeeze 6 in. 

I agree with Dotty re. long runs - keep them slow but insert some pace in the middle or at the very end.

23/06/2013 at 20:56

Evening everyone, hope the move is going well, got to be pretty stressful .

I wouldn't be afraid of a bit more speed either Angela, you're unlikely to injure yourself if your overall mileage is lower. I think.

i am seriously thinking of changing clubs, mine is a bit stale and fuddy duddy, I keep looking at the "new" clubs website and it looks a lot more fun.  Then I think I ought to make more effort to get my own club to be a bit more forward looking, but it would be so much effort I think I should just go where I might enjoy myself a little more.



23/06/2013 at 22:27

Hidihi, yes, I guess the session I did was much more 10k specific.  I had a really bad time in 2012, where at the start of the year I had a personal trainer, I told him my ultimate goal was NYC marathon, and I had a couple of halfs on the way- his plan was so focused on fast intervals and running fast all the time that I never went above 9 miles trainin for a half marathon, got a really bad time, and picked up this knee injury, that still bugs me from time to time.  I'm honestly a bit scared of the short intervals and think I need to perhaps start with fewer, just so I don't go and twang anything.  I also (perhaps naievely), fail. To see how running 400m flat out is going to help me in my 10k  that will take approx 50 mins, except, in the last few minutes.  I know it's in many plans. So I'm not rejecting the idea, I guess I'm just trying to get to the theory.

Long and slow builds aerobic fitness and endurance.

race pace long intervals or tempo runs improve ur speed endurance, so u can improve Overall pace.

what do short intervals do?


Mr P, that's a tough one, its like when u have A job but u feel like uve done all u can there, and there's elsewhere that's offering a new challenge.  I've always been one to go for it when I think the grass is greener.  In reality, it isn't always, but surely u could try out the new club without obligation? Or is there too much rivalry between them? Don't peopl join more than 1 club and have a second claim or something as well?

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