RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30

Sarah Osbourne with Minni

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11/01/2013 at 16:00

Hi Andy. It sounds like you have been given a few things to work on. I guess the arms will be the easiest thing to amend, but the other two, it will need some concentration and effort during your training, but it will be worth it in the long run .

A part of me is worried about shorter distance races aswell as I keep on thinking that I will get too comfortable running slow so when I get back in to 10ks and HM I will be more of a plodder!

I tried running on lucozade last year and it really didnt agree with me. I didnt try any of the gels as a friend recommended these shot blocks which I tried and actually liked. Their abit like jelly cubes with energy and salts in. You need to drink after taking them, but generally they were ok. I was fine with them when I run at MP but when I tried one during a half marathon near to the end (just for practice) it gave me stomach cramp. Lots of people at boot camp recommended the high 5 gels so im going to give them a go.

I was given a bottle of "for goodness shakes" at the end of Leeds abbey dash. I decided to try it when I got back from my run today...that was quite nice. It contains 3:1 (carb: protein) and lots of nutrients.....doesnt beat food but I had that aswell....and im hungry again already!

Ive just been reading some of the other threads and Ruth has been saying that fruit and veg doesnt count as carbs...they are (or were) my main carbs in my diet.....think im going to have to start eating more bread, potatoes, rice, cous cous etc now!

Edited: 11/01/2013 at 16:01
11/01/2013 at 17:04

Good work on the 16M today Sarah, if the route you did is anything as flat as Brass Monkey it's no wonder you were running quicker with the same effort!  I ran faster than planned last night and blamed the flat route  It's always a good sign when 16 miles isn't a long hard slog.

If you want to try the High 5 gels I'll bring a few along next Sunday for you to take home, saves buying a box if you don't like them.  I do like the High 5 gels, they're all I've ever tried.

11/01/2013 at 18:58
sarah osborne wrote (see)

A part of me is worried about shorter distance races aswell as I keep on thinking that I will get too comfortable running slow so when I get back in to 10ks and HM I will be more of a plodder!

Marathon training is all about building endurance but I'm sure you won't lose any speed. 

sarah osborne wrote (see)

Ive just been reading some of the other threads and Ruth has been saying that fruit and veg doesnt count as carbs...they are (or were) my main carbs in my diet.....think im going to have to start eating more bread, potatoes, rice, cous cous etc now!

Can you act as the go between and filter through any useful infor?  Why does fruit and veg not count?  I eat loads.  I find too much bread, pots etc when I'm marathon training doesn't work.



11/01/2013 at 19:07
sarah osborne wrote (see)
I initially suggested doing a speed session on tue but I have decided just to do a steady run instead as BM will be like my speed session for the week and I need slightly rested legs....what do you think? My aim for BM is to set of at 7:30 min/mls but slowly increase my pace over the run so my ave pace is more nearer 7:05 - 7:10 min/mls by the end of the run but we will see. How about you?

lol - you said that at the beginning of the parkrun too and were off like a rocket... and held on.    

That sounds good for Tuesday.  You could do some shorter intervals (not too many) or add in some strides to help increase the pace without running the whole thing too fast?

Have you thought about a warm up for the BM.  I'll be doing at least 2 miles - what about you carrot?  We could meet for a wu?

Hilly - I guess we'll see you picking something up at the prize giving?

Me?  Well... My last two HM were run in 1:33:08 (Sept) and 1:32:55 (Oct).  I've increased my mileage and done more speed sessions since then so might be looking at a pb.  However, I am a bit over weight and know I'd feel better racing if I were a few pounds lighter, and I don't always perform best on flat courses.  I find it draining on the legs, especially towards the end.  I guess its because I normally train on hilly routes.  So we'll see.  I'm not all that bothered to be honest.  I know my training is going well and that's as much as I can ask for.

11/01/2013 at 21:18

Well done on your 16 miler. It must have felt nice keeping that pace with such ease. I always find nicer scenery makes the miles pass quicker and also makes me run quicker as well. 

11/01/2013 at 23:58
Ruth and Sam were saying that fruit and veg have too much water in them to make them effective carbs...they still recommended the cous cous, rice, potatoe etc.

Minni I dont think I would be able to hold on to a pace like that for a half.....or even 7 min miles for a half, wish i could though but i know i stand my best chance if I start slower and speed up.

Maybe add some strides on tue if thats ok? I have another netball match on wed....least I will get a few intervals in during that....just hope it doesnt leave me the way it has done this week!

I havent ever warmed up before a half before but im happy to give it ago as long as its nice and steady so I dont tire my legs.

I have my fingers crossed for you for a new PB, with doing more milage and speed training, it gives you a good chance but you never know what you will feel like on the day. Im same as you, I always do better on the hillier routes. Minni, your so not overweight. I guess like me your main aim is the marathon, so any PBs along the way are just a bonus!

Hi Ady....the miles did seem to disappear quite quickly.....didnt clock watch like you end up doing on the TM! Good luck for your park run in the morning
12/01/2013 at 07:41
Sarah - I know I'm not overweight as such but I'm carrying about 5 pounds more than I was when I ran London last year and I can really feel it when I'm racing. However I can't seem to shift it. I'm hoping cutting out the alcohol will help. I eat loads of fruit and drink lots - maybe I'm carrying too much water?
12/01/2013 at 07:55
I get what you mean, when I went to Kenya and didnt run for 2.5 weeks, I think I put a couple of pounds on and lost some muscle, everyone laughed at me when I said I felt podgy and had put weight on because they couldn't see it, but I could see it and mainly I could feel it! I think you should shift those 5lb no problem with stopping drinking and the increased mileage your doing. I really can't believe how many calories you end up consuming when you do have a drink!

Loving your water theory idea.....I must be the same with the consumption of my at least 10 portions of fruit and veg a day!
12/01/2013 at 08:20

That was a cracking run Sarah, I remember a visit to York when a chap was running round the City Walls at twilight locking the gates as he went.  You should come down here, we have a boxing day race around our walls, though I suspect yours are in better condition.  Very good pace to be running that distance comfortably.

Is there a table of calories per drink? How many in a 440ml can of lager for instance?  Half a bottle of red wine?  a very large malt whiskey?

None of which I consumed last night I hasten to add! I used to be able to do a long run after a couple of beers but not now. 14 miles planned for today but I have to give my son a lift somewhere so I'll drop him off and I've planned an undulating route around that corner of Cheshire.  Last week I ran, lunched, showered and slept the whole afternoon away so I need to keep my eyes open today.

So what's the plan today Sarah?

12/01/2013 at 09:40
Thankyou Mr P. My legs feel surprisingly ok today which I'm surprised by as I thought that they would ache alittle. I did put compression socks on once I got in after a shower. I really think that they may be helping. I've just arrived down in sheffield to see my parents, see some friends and go to the match. I was supposed to be coming down last night but due to traffic and a would be "lonely husband" I stayed up in york and came down this morning in stead. This means that my recovery run first thing this morning hasn't yet been done. Fingers crossed I will get a 3 mile recovery run in later, but if not I do end up walking about 1.5 miles to the match and the same on the way back. Tomorrow I have a roughly 10 mile off road run in the peaks with a friend planned.

I love history, ancient buildings, castles etc so the more I see the better. How far is your Boxing Day run?

You can google some thing to get their calorie content but a month or so ago I put myfitnesspal app on my phone- you can search for things and scan barcodes- it tells you the calorie content and the amount if carbs, fat and protein your consuming...its great I'm addicted, although it has put me off baileys. One night I consumed over a 1000 kcal just in baileys!

Hope you have a fabulous and successful run today with no cat naps afterwards.
12/01/2013 at 12:23

Blimey, I'm partial to a B52 myself.  The Boxing day run is 4-5 miles but it was shortened this year because of the wet, it was 3 miles, I daren't put the time on here.

Well I just got in, change of plan, after pottering around waiting for Puffy Junior to surface for his match, he told me it was cancelled, so I politely explained that had he told me earlier I could have gone for a run, bless him.  I went a different route that included a long gentle climb of around 200ft and a short off road section that was pretty muddy, ending with the mile long hill back to our house. Overall was 13.8 at 8:58mm.

As for raceday pace, I feel like I'm working a little too hard to keep this pace, in the past 9mm would have been like almost not even running, so 8mm on raceday might be a bit of a struggle. At this point though I will introduce a marathon pace longer run into midweek

I didn't see many sights, just  a kestrel and a Llama farm!

12/01/2013 at 12:51
mmm, I like a B52 or two myself!

Im sure it will still be a reasonable time the day after christmas....I believe anything, what ever distance or speed is an achievement on Boxing Day after all the over indulgence the day before.

How old is your kid?

Your run actually sounds quite tough....you will always be a little slower off road and up hill. 8:58 min/ml pace sounds good...its probably more what I should have been doing yesterday. Its still along way off until marathon day so just see how you go.

I love kestrels, one of my favourtite birds after reading a kestrel for knave. A Llama farm sounds different and interesting as well.

I missed the York eye of my list of sites yesterday!
12/01/2013 at 13:09
This one is 19. He passed his test last year and is saving for insurance, usually he arranges transport but this match was at a school right on a really good footpath where you can do around fifteen miles without touching the road so it suited us both really and I only lost an hour or so, probably did me good to wait a bit.

Oh, as for weight I buckled on my water belt for the first time since last year...had to slacken it off a bit to get it to close without cutting me in half.
12/01/2013 at 14:38

Hi Sarah/Minni - I've had the odd little look in the last week or so, but not much chance of keeping up now I'm back at work.  Will continue to pop in every now and then though to see how you're progressing - looking good so far!

Minni - I'm not doing BM now.  I sold my number this morning as I don't feel I'm in shape to do myself justice.  The last time I did the race I did 84 mins and at present I'm nowhere near that.  I was going to run it as a MP session, but I know me and I'd get caught up racing  So I've decided to give myself a few more weeks before doing a proper race.  Dewsbury will be my next one and then Snake Lane 10.   Training is not going too much to plan at present though, but trying to stay positive about it and put in what I can.

Sarah - gels are very much an individual taste I think.  I've tried all the ones you mention and for me I keep going back to SIS as they're the only ones I like the consistency of.  Shot blocks sound a bit

I wouldn't worry about losing pace from doing marathon training and slowing down.  I set all my shorter distance pbs within a couple of months of my marathon pb off marathon training!  Then when you go back to adding in a bit more shorter distance specific stuff you'll be flying

12/01/2013 at 18:31
Sorry to hear you're not going to be at BM
Hilly and also sorry to hear you're training isn't exactly were you want it to be. You put in some good miles over the Christmas hols though so hopefully it'll all come good.

I'm an SIS girl too.

Puffy - yes off road is always slower and tougher. Your feet stick to the ground with every step for one thing.

Did you get a win today Sarah?

With all the debates about whether to fuel or not here is my experience today: I normally just carry water on a long run and really just take gels later on to get used to them for the marathon but have never actually run with no breakfast. I ate 'dinner' last night at 7:30, which turned out to be a chicken and cheese roll on brown because it was all I fancied! Didn't eat anything else then had only a mug of coffee first thing (about 7:30am). 20m run started at about 8:30. I took an emergency gel with me and expected my energy levels to run out about 15 miles (due to hunger).

I'd dumped a bottle of water on the hedge to have at mile 6 and 17. It was a cold morning with sleety rain so started at brisker pace than anticipated and this didn't subside. Started to feel hungry about 12 miles in but it was a different hunger to what I normally feel when I've eaten when I sometimes feel quite sluggish with it. It was a fresh hunger, if that makes sense. I didn't need to take the gel and felt really good the throughout the run. Avg pace: 8:02 with the last couple of miles under 7:50 pace. This was the fastest 20m I've done in training without having MP section in, and it did feel comfortable thought.

So, I would have said prior to this that I couldn't run 20m without some pre-fuel but that's obviously no the case. It'll be interesting to see of the next one has such positive results.
12/01/2013 at 20:45

2M warm up sounds good to me Minni! Great 20M today, if you can run 20 @ 8:02 you can run 13 @ just under 7mm surely? Have faith.

Enjoy your 10 tomorrow Sarah, running is always easier with friends

Might have to try that app, just to check out the alcohol calories.

12/01/2013 at 22:15

Evening Sarah!

Sounds like your training is going really well! I haven't tried the shot blocks but can definitely recommend the Hi 5 gels! ... I'd hasten to add not like snot at all (which is my boyfriend's description! ... how does he know...!!)

Re the cous cous I had some for lunch but I was starving about an hour and a half afterwards so wasn't too keen but will maybe give it another go tomorrow. Still reckon fruit and veg should count!

Have a fab run tomorrow!!

13/01/2013 at 00:25
second attempt at writing something tonight....thought i would quickly put something up before I went to bed and it failed to go up and lost everything what I had wrote-grrr...I want to go to bed!

Cant believe that im saying that at half past midnight on a sat night...im getting old!
13/01/2013 at 00:35
Mr P, im sure your water belt will be much slacker by marathon week!

Hi Hilly, im so sorry to hear about your training and that you have had to give your BM number up. I hope you get back on track soon. Ive always fancied that snake lane race in Pocklington but it always seems to be full up by the time I think about entering. Thankyou for your reassurance about racing after Marathon training, its very reassuring to me and others on here, especially after you have had an amazing time of 84 mins at the BM before, you must be delighted with that time?

Wow Minni, I cant believe that you managed to run all that way without breakfast or taking anything in along the way, you must be made of steel! Its amazing that you was able to keep such a fabulous pace up all the way around....who needs to eat!!!! How have you felt for the rest of the day?

My team were awful today, we lost 2-0. It was cold and the match was worse than watching paint dry. The players just didnt seem interested and they looked like they had never played together...if i went to work and put the same amount of effort in as they did, I would be sacked!

Hi Sarah, you and me both...your training looks to be going fantastic, your getting so speedy, im getting jealous. I think fruit and veg should count too....only time ive had cous cous is in a stuffed pepper!
13/01/2013 at 00:41
Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

Week 2 (day 13), recovery run.
Aim; an easy 3 miles.

Actual; due to having a busy day with travelling between York and sheffield, taking my mum shopping and my dad to the match, followed by driving through to Derbyshire to go to Clowne's AGM (a running club alot of maltby members are second claim for) I didnt have chance to get a 3 miles recovery run in, however I did instead;
1. 2 x 1.5 mile walk to the football match and back
2. ran on the spot/in my seat for almost 90 mins to try to keep my feet warm and less painful....does anyone else have raynauds?

..........can this count as a recovery run??

My legs have felt fine all day after yesterdays 16 miler but ive felt hungry all day and done nothing but eat!!!

Tomorrow.....hopefully about 10 miles of road at a steady pace!
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