RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30

Sarah Osbourne with Minni

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15/01/2013 at 12:47

Ant/Zuvai - I've been in that camp.  Got a 4 minute pb at a HM on the Sunday, 20m on the Friday (where I ran a bit too fast with my new found confidence from the HM) then did a 16 or 18 on the Monday with MP miles in.  My calf felt tight after the Friday run and I iced it the whole weekend then it hurt during the Monday run but still I didn't stop.  In the end it cost me my Autumn marathon.

I think there were a few things going on:  I definitely pushed the paces far too hard, I didn't listen to my body, I didn't look at the bigger picture, but I was also a tad unlucky.

However, I learnt a lot from that and I am more careful now following a race where I've 'gone for it'.   I would expect next week to be another 50+ mileage week, mostly of easy running, but probably without the speed training on Tuesday night, although might do something later in the week.  I'd still expect to do a 20m next weekend too.

I don't think its necessarily the mileage that is the risk when running on tired muscles but more the faster paces.

This year I did an off road race on the Tuesday before the GNR.  Plan was to take it steady but was teamed up with three men and I ended up running the 5m loop more than 5 minutes faster than I had previously .  I had severe DOMS in the days that followed and was a bit concerned about injury at the GNR, so opted for compression socks for the first time ever.   During the run my legs started off stiff but got better as I went on and actually felt a hundred times better at the end!  

15/01/2013 at 22:05
Thankyou Ant, Mr Z and Minni for bring up a useful discussion on something I hadnt really considered. I will certainly take what you have said above into consideration before I start week 4 of training....provided that the BM goes ahead. Ive just looked at the weather forecast and its not looking too good at the moment. They have forecasted snow and rain all day on sunday (and snow on fri and sat). I think even if the race isnt cancelled it might not be the best conditions to race!

After my last two long runs ive wore my compression socks and I really do think that they help, my legs have felt fine the following day. I havent ran in them yet though!
15/01/2013 at 22:15
Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

Week 3, (Day 16). Aim; initially it was a steady 8 miles


As I did a slight speed session yesterday and 8 miles overall instead of the 8 miles steady today, I was going to use today as either a rest day or a recovery run day.

I had a really busy day at work and didnt actually leave until 19:30, this together with me planning on actually cooking a meal mid week for once made me choose today as a rest day.

Most evenings because of running or netball I dont tend to get home until around half 9 so I dont tend to cook much for my evening meal. Due to doing a long run on a friday I normally use thursday as my catch up time with my husband and reading (work related things) and cooking a good meal. This Thursday I have a run planned instead due to the BM, so it was nice to be able to get home earlier today instead.

Tomorrow hopefully I have a netball match...if it isnt too icy. If it is cancelled I will go to the gym to do some resistance training and probably 5-6 miles steady...unless Minni has any better suggestions? ?
16/01/2013 at 10:29

Yeah - I think dropping say speedwork on the Tuesday after a big race is definitely wise. I picked up my recent achilles injury at the track before Xmas doing intervals after just a measly 5K on the Saturday. However, that 5K was the last of a series of 6 races in 5 weeks, so I was probably cruising for a bruising. It's always easy to spot it with hindsight 

Would they really cancel a race called the Brass Monkey if it was cold? Those hearty Yorkshire types would be a laughing stock 

16/01/2013 at 13:29

Our half has in the past been cancelled due to snow, but it's rural with some steep sections and was unrunnable.

Rested yesterday, 7-ish miles at 8mm planned tonight.


16/01/2013 at 13:43
Which half is that puffy - 4 Villages?
16/01/2013 at 17:43
Sarah - I'm assuming the netball is cancelled since we seem to have entered the ice age? If you're feeling ok and running tonight you could add another couple of miles on and make it into a 7 or 8. I know you're itching to get going so what s out sticking a couple if MP miles in the middle? I wouldn't go any faster because you did your intervals on Monday.

How is the weather looking down there? It's forecast snow on Saturday so I guess it'll depend how much falls.
16/01/2013 at 19:14
I'm guessing that every year the weathers like this and not like the mild week we had last week, therefore I'm hoping knavesmire have a few tricks up their sleeves (gritters etc) to keep the race on

Netball got cancelled at lunch time (yay) but I just haven't had time to come on here, been a bit of a nightmare day but I've just arrived at the gym now to destress and let off some energy. 7-8 miles with a few at MP sounds great, alot more sensible than the stopping and starting I would have done during netball. The weather is pretty awful, was -8 this morning but only -3 at the moment, but there is thick fog and ice everywhere. My car door wouldn't even shut to get me here until the car had warmed up it was that cold!

Now for the gym,speak to you soon.
16/01/2013 at 21:38
Not that cold here Sarah, a nice Zero degrees quite comfortable to run in.

It is 4 villages Minni.

8 miles tonight nowhere near mara pace in the end, Felt very tired and couldn't pick up the pace so I think I'll pass on tomorrow's run there's a long way to go yet.

Sarah Di you play indoors or out?
16/01/2013 at 23:55
Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

Week 3, (Day 17). Aim; cross training (netball match)

Due to the freezing fog and icy netball pitch our match was cancelled today. I was quite relieved, 1 because I didnt want to play outdoors in this weather and 2 because I didnt want to risk any injuries or muscle aches (like last week after a long break from netball) so close to the race on sunday....which will hopefully be still going ahead.

I went to the gym to do some resistance training and do a run instead. This was instead of doing the run that I had planned tomorrow. After reading Minni's advice I decided to increase the run to 7-8 miles, at a steady pace with some MP miles in the middle.

Mile reps;
1 Started at 9:30 min/ml and increased my pace to 8:34 min/ml
2 8:34 min/ml
3 8:00 min/ml
4 8:00 min/ml
5 8:00 min/ml
6 8:13 min/ml
7 8:20 min/ml
7.5 8:34 - 9:30 min/ml

Total miles 7.5
TM setting; hills but only on level one so it ranged between 0-1.5% incline just to get a bit of variety and mimic outdoors slightly but not risk exhausting myself for sunday

I use to always run at around 7:30 min/mls on the treadmil for all my runs. I was always capable of maintaining that pace but I always came of the TM feeling like I had dome something. Today I was fine running at 8:34 min/mls but when I increased the pace to 8:00 min/mls I actually felt like I was running faster than I use was quite odd. However when I slowed the pace back down to 8:13 min/mls it felt significantly slower and as though no effort was needed. All pretty strang especially as the 0.13min/mls difference in paces appeared to make such a huge difference in how comfortable I felt.
17/01/2013 at 00:00
Hi Mr P, glad to hear that you had slightly favourable running conditions.

I think its best to listen to your body and if its showing signs that it needs a rest then take it. There is no point pushing yourself over your limits and causing yourself injuries or illnesses (especially as there are loads going around) resulting in your training being set back further.

The rest will probably do you some good so that you will have a more effective training run next time instead.

Think its a bit too early to be worried about MP aswell, looking on the ASICS challenge threads and the advice from the coaches.

Our netball games are out doors. It doesnt really make sense as we have a winter league outdoors and then some of us play a summer league in doors!!!
17/01/2013 at 06:39
Another nice session Sarah. I don't think that 8 m/m should have felt hard for you since you've been knocking out mile reps much quicker. There could have been a few reasons for this: you had a busy day so perhaps were tired; It was only 2 days since you did your intervals; sometimes we get over anxious about PMP, thinking 'can I keep this up for 26 miles', which seems to make it a difficult pace! Either way I wouldn't worry.

Puffy - at the moment MP effort is just that and used for training purposes and doesn't necessarily relate to your final MP in April. It's wise to get the training under your belt then had a HM or 10m race in March to assess where you are and set your MP from that.
17/01/2013 at 07:43
Thankyou minni (i think i will blame it on a combination of the things youve suggested above and not having ate for 7 hours), lets see what today brings....least Thursday is my Friday!

I don't have a clinic this morning but instead I'm doing 15 dementia reviews at the nursing home that I cover, not sure yet if it will be better/worse than a normal clinic!

I've a sports massage booked in for tomorrow morning....I can't wait.
17/01/2013 at 08:33

Hi sarah - That feeling of finding 8mm hard when you have been running at 8:30's is one I get on every long progressive run I do. Then I finish and think how the feck am I going to be able to maintain 7:20's for 26.2. I think it's probably the effect of the fatigue in your legs, from the days before, catching up.

As long as when you need to run faster you can then I think you are doing it right and probably more importantly getting the balance right. I felt the same way yesterday for most of my run but my legs feel great after a 55 mile week last week and 21 in two days so far this week so I'm glad I listened to the likes of Minni and the Sub 3:15 threaders a couple of months ago because I feel fresh going into my serious training with a better base than in 19 years.

In the past I've tried to run too fast, too early, and too often and encountered the type of injuries Minni spoke about earlier

Looks like a sensible session that you did on the dreadmill last night - I thought I was on the wrong thread for a moment. Was expecting to see 16 miles at MP wityh a few at HMP thrown in for good measure. (That's Half Marathon Pace, not Her Majesty's Prison).

Finally, enjoy the massage tonight but make sure you aren't running too hard tomorrow!

17/01/2013 at 19:55
What's the weather like down there today Sarah?

Are you running today/tonight? Enjoy the massage - tell them you're racing on Sunday when you go.

How's it going DS2?

I wonder how Malcs is getting on?
17/01/2013 at 21:30

Hi DS2. Thankyou for your advice, its really helpful. I completley agree with what your saying. At the end of the day at the moment im running about ten miles a more a week for the last three weeks than what I was doing for the previous 10-20 so that is probably going to have some effect, that and the speed session on Monday. It is strange though how sometimes your legs can feel great and at other times like lead. I have found that sometimes if they dont feel quite right, picking up the pace more and then dropping it back down helps, however I didnt dare do this yesterday as im trying to be good and stick to my paces.

You look like your getting some serious miles in . Im being really sensible...its not like me as I try to do everything too fast...but this slowing down has meant that Ive felt fine after my LSR rather than having slightly aching calfs and toes. Im just going to do a gentle 3 miler tomorrow and a 5 mile walk to sort some things out for my friends hen party...its easier to walk into town than drive...provided there isnt too much ice on the pavements!

Evening Minni, I couldnt decide whether to run tonight or in the morning but after finishing work after 8 (12 hour shift) I decided to just go home and get some tea. Its actually quite mild at the moment (0 degrees, instead of the -8 this morning again). All the roads appear fine as do half of the pavements (which have been in the sun) but the other half are still slightly iced up.

Will they do things differently for the massage because im racing? I have it at 11 tomorrow morning.


Malcs is back on the road, he tried a run a couple of days ago and didnt have any relapse afterwards

17/01/2013 at 21:36

Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

Week 3, (Day 18). Aim; 5 mile easy

Due to running 7.5 miles yesterday instead of playing netball I was either going to run 3 miles easy today or have a rest day as usual on a thursday. Due to finishing work after 8pm (after starting at 8am) and it being an horrendous day I decided to just come home and have my tea. I tend to like running all out when ive had one of these days to detress and didnt want to risk starting steady and increasing my pace stupidly as this wouldnt benefit my marathon or the BM on sunday.

Ive now had my tea and dont really know what to do with myself as im still het up!

17/01/2013 at 22:05
One of the benefits of running I think is if you don't know where your next breath is coming from it's hard to worry about work.
17/01/2013 at 23:24

Evening Sarah!

7 miles on a treadmill sounds like such a long way!! Do you struggle not to push the off switch?

You'll have to let me know how you get on with your sports massage as I've got my first one booked next week!! Everyone keeps recommending them so I thought I'd just bite the bullet and have a try!! 

Mr Puffy - That's an AWESOME saying!!

18/01/2013 at 14:09

Puffy - I like it!


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