RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30

just realised that the paces didnt come out as they had looked before I had saved them! 

I will try again, although I will type them out this time in stead of copying and pasting them!

5k 6:40 - 6:55

10k 6:55 - 7:00

Tempo 7:05-7:10

HM 7:16-7:21

Marathon 7:45-8:00

Steady 7:55 - 8:40

Easy 8:50-9:30

recovery 9:35 +

Poacher - I was recommending Hilly listen to your MT interview since she's aiming for sub 3 and thought she would find it very interesting. In fact I'm recommending everyone listen to it!

Hilly - which marathon are you doing?  How many miles per week will you be doing?

Mr Puffy - I never used to do them either thinking they were a waste of time. But its all about a balanced week and consistency is so important, week after week.   What time did you get last year? 

Sarah emailed me the schedule she had written for herself, which looked fine.  She had quite a lot of cross training in it and was initially running 3 times a week but stepping it up to 4 later on.  The build up of long runs was fine but a 9 mile race 3 weeks from marathon day is meaning either a 4 or 2 week taper.  Just now she's opting for 2 week and we'll see nearer the time. 

She has marked day for speed training but wasn't sure what to do here.  In the past she hasn't really given it much thought and has just run fast miles so I've sent her a range of paces that I used when I was at a similar speed to what she is now (as above) and that gives her a guide of what's what and something to work with. 

sarah tinsel toes osborne wrote (see)

Im delaying my run too...my OH promised to come with me around derwent (as he doesnt like me going on my own)

I guess you haven't been married that long?   My husband just kicks me out the door.

Hi all, good stuff on here. Looks like minni has put a lot of thought into your schedule Sarah.

I hate tapering as well but I actually ran my PB without tapering a week after running a PB for 20 miles. I had no idea what I was doing back then - ran most of my runs too fast but had some very good results. The problem was that I found it hard to motivate myself afterwards. I'd basically trained too hard - I think I may have had a faster marathon in there somewhere but probably left it on the road on the 20 miler. I'm planning a 3 week taper for my spring marathon but may drop to 2!!

Brolish - that's brilliant to pick yourself up after the disappointment of NY. I guess the body just needs some kind of taper to consolidate the training in the weeks prior to the marathon. The fact that you had trained and tapered properly for NY was probably the key and it didn't matter too much what you did in the next three weeks as long as you didn't do so little that you started to lose fitness?

As for me, I bit the dirt rather hard yesterday at the end of steady 10 miler. Tripped at speed and face took most of the force as I hit the ground. Other than a few grazes here and there I seem to have got away quite lightly. I would love to have seen it - must have been quite funny!

Sarah - we have managed to find 2 in Southampton, one starting at 9am and the other at 10am so we should be able to get to both in that time

Which parkrun are you doing?  9:34 pace is fine, mine the other day was 9:38!

Minni - I have a championship place at London.  I hope to get up to 80-100 miles for a large part of the training.  I'm giving myself a longer build-up this time round due to losing fitness from illness/injury.  The last few weeks I've been around 50 and this week will be around 80.  I do not concentrate on sessions at this stage, but will do strides once a week and this week did include a 5 miles at around 7:21 pace in the middle of 15 and did a parkrun in just over 20 minutes.  This is not stressful for me though as both are hard, but controlled efforts.

I tend to do a 2 week taper, but I think it depends on the individual and you really have to find what works for you!  I've tried 4 weeks, 3 weeks and 2 weeks and no taper and run best on a gradual 2 week taper where I cut the distance, but keep the intensity up.

Sarah - does your club take part in a cross country league?

Re. tapers, we ended up getting lost on the final run before our marathon this year, doing 18 instead of the planned 12!  Then we both ran stormers 7 days later.

My best marathons came off a depletion approach which worked thus:-

Pre-race week

Tuesday - 60 mins with 10 x 100m strides at the end - protein and fats the rest of the day
Wednesday - 75 mins with 10 x 100m strides - same diet as above
Thursday - 60 mins with 10 x 100m strides - carbo-load.

Friday - 30 mins
Sat - 20 mins.

Funnily enough running an 8 / 10 / 8 sequence brought me my best results?!

really good discussion on warm up routines   Always did wonder what a good warm up was and clearly a few stretches just does not qualify.

DS - ouch.

Mr Puffy - so what was missing this year?  What are you going to change for the next marathon?  I guess sub 3:30 is still your target.  If you've run 3:33 previously then you know you've got it in you with the correct training.  Which half are you doing?  I'd say February is too early to set your marathon time - there's still lots you can do from there.  Which marathon are you doing?

Hilly - that is a big mileage.  What kind of speed session will you do when you start.  I sympathise with your calf trouble - its my weak area too.  I'm much better at recognising it now and pulling back.

Taper - I used to always do a 2 week taper because I used to race a 14m three weeks out.  I'm not sure when I slipped into the 3 week.  I did a 22m  thirteen days before a marathon once and it didn't do me any harm. 

BR - I'm really interested in your depletion approach.  Do you accurately measure everything as per your body weight etc?

Carl - most people are guilty of not doing a long enough warm up but try it and I bet it helps.

Sarah - hope you have a great parkrun tomorrow!

hilly - I'm meeting Sarah at Newcastle parkrun.  I think she might beat me.

good luck for the park run tomorrow...It looks like a wet morning here.hope you get a drier one

I'm in the process of putting together my sessions, but they will based around the 4 main elements of strength, speed, LT and endurance.  I don't do anything too special to tell the truth.  My favourite for my previous sub 3 was 20 x 400s and long run with a fast last 3 miles to finish.

Enjoy the parkrun tomorrow both - good to have someone to push you along for a bit of friendly rivalry

I have noticed thast one carter..i need a couple of dry hours for the bike this weekend

Hi Sarah - wow, this thread is moving fast. Still away so catching up a bit tonight. However, my mum's internet connection is useless so it's a painful process. May have to give up for now and focus on stalking you properly next week!

Question for you about speed work. Are you doing a speed session every week?

I'm currently considering delaying speed sessions until the latter half or even third of training this year and focusing initially on building endurance through increased slower mileage. This will be a big change from what I've done in the past. 

Enjoy the parkrun tomorrow both of you, it'll be like showdown - Blonde Ponytail vs Brunette Plaits!