RW Forum Six – Sub 4 Running Rachel with Cheerful Dave

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13/01/2013 at 17:45

Great news about your "official" results Nykie! 

Just done a 3 mile recovery run. It has been dry all day, but by the time I had finished the ironing it was dark and sleeting...that said, I found what felt like a slow but comfortable pace and plodded round.  3 miles at 9:30 min mile.

So that's week 2 done- 27 miles in total!

Dave, I've noticed the forecast is suggesting -2 at 6 am most mornings this week. Hopefully it'll be safe underfoot, but wondering about intervals in these conditions? Shall I test the ground on the day? I do have a treadmill, but would have to run later in the day, as it would wake the house at 6am!! (My preference is to run early though....)


13/01/2013 at 17:46
Hi everyone. Great thread. I particularly like reading Dave's words of wisdom (ie the bit about training in warmish clothing for a spring mara makes good sense) and Rachel, sounds like you are making great progress. I am training for VLM, hoping to better my time of 3:54 from last year. I am a bit concerned by the fact that unlike the rest of you, I am not finding it hard to run slowly on long runs! Just the opposite. Maybe I am a bit sluggish at the mo. One thing, Rachel, if you are planning to have porridge before the marathon, shouldn't you be replicating that on your long runs? Just a thought...
13/01/2013 at 18:00

Hi Caz! Welcome to one who has already achieved the lofty heights of a sub 4 marathon!! What time are you aiming for this year? I guess it would be a good idea to replicate the marathon breakfast, but is porridge the best pre marathon food? What does everyone else eat??

13/01/2013 at 18:40
Thanks Rachel! Am doing London in April..

Don't know about the marathon but have eaten porridge and toast with peanut butter prior to the halfs I have done and seems to work v well as fuel.

Have been playing round with fuel for my LSR which has been tricky due to running at 7am (young kids). I've been getting up at 6am and eating. Today I did a clif bar and then small amount of granola with yog and a banana. Took clif shot bloks and a bottle of luc sport and that was basically perfect or me for 17 miles. Am going to use shot bloks for vlm and think they supply luc sport at the stations.... It's been tricky judging the amount of fuel to keep going but not get a stitch but think I'm there..

Rest now till intervals Tuesday, happy running all
13/01/2013 at 19:16
I stay at a hotel in London for the marathon and it's used by an organised running group doing the marathon. They always have a big vat of porridge on the morning of the marathon. I usually have it and it seems to work.
Cheerful Dave    pirate
13/01/2013 at 20:29
Rachel, your safety trumps everything else, so you can abort any run (or interval or whatever) if you have any doubts over being able to run safely on frosty streets in the dark. If you can get on a treddie instead then great, but your marathon won't be wrecked if you miss a session or two to bad weather. It might be wrecked if you fall over and crack a rib. Trust me, you don't want to find out how hard you hit the ground if you fall running.

Lots of people seem to use porridge. Not my thing, but it seems to do the trick for others. Good point Will about using what they have on the race - VLM does have lucozade as you say,and water in bottles which are easier to drink from than cups. I don't know what they have at Manchester Rachel, it would be worth finding out.

Another reason to do a half is that it gives you a chance to try your nutrition in a race. It's never quite the same in a long run for some reason.,
Cheerful Dave    pirate
13/01/2013 at 20:33
Oh, and welcome to will & caz, and anyone else lurking. There's a lot of good discussion going on, which is really what these threads are about: it's not all about Rachel, it's a chance for us all to learn something!
13/01/2013 at 20:35
Yes dave as I found out to my cost this morning! Did my best superman impression on a pavement nr smithfields at 3.5 miles. Didn't realise both knees were swollen and bleeding till I stopped for a pee at 7 miles (well, i probably did know judging from the pain at the time but think my mind decided best not to look!!)
13/01/2013 at 20:51

Ooo..Will, I feel your pain! I actually took a tumble myself a couple of months ago- the bruise on my knee was mighty impressive! And it took ages before I could bend it fully again (though it never affected my ability to run thankfully!) I think as adults we fall an awful lot harder than as children!!

All take it easy this week!!

13/01/2013 at 20:51

Sorry, not easy!! MAybe I should have said stay safe!! (Carter may be lurking, I don't want him thinking I'm not giving 100%!!)

13/01/2013 at 20:56
No, Carter's out running
13/01/2013 at 21:03

Haha,  He is back now and although it started snowing he got safely round. I'm hoping it snows quite a bit for the weekend so I can go offroad  into the Peaks. It's glorious up there when it snows although it makes running twice as hard !

I've no doubt you will be giving 100% Rachel, you dont want to have to buy me that beer when you get across the finishing line at Manchester and I'm there waiting for you to arrive 


13/01/2013 at 21:58

Just over 10 miles this morning that felt good @ 9.58 pace. I have the Brass Monkey Half Marathon in York next Sunday and I will be PB'ing if the weather is ok and I basically get round in one piece (PB is 2.06) as my training is better than ever. Hoping to do about MP or maybe slightly faster, so about a 1.55 time hopefully.

13/01/2013 at 22:37

Hi James! Good luck for the half on Sunday! A good run today too!

Dave, a question about a half during marathon you do any tapering for it, or keep up the usual routine. I know I've got a lot of weeks till then, but just wondering! 

Carter- you'd better give 110%- just saying!!

13/01/2013 at 23:15
Rachel, I am aiming for around 3:45, but any improvement would be welcome! I wish I could learn to like porridge, as it seems like the ideal fuel, but I haven't managed it so far, so I have granola, yoghurt and fruit. I have SIS gels while racing but am thinking of trying out Lucozadev as well this year as they have it at VLM. Dave, do you think it is a good idea to use both gels and drinks or to just stick to one or the other (which is what I have always assumed)?
Cheerful Dave    pirate
14/01/2013 at 08:51

Well Caz, I just stick to one and that's the usual advice, but the odd mouthful of lucozade between gels won't do you any harm and might be a useful pickup if you need it.  Or you may find it too sickly later in the race, it's odd how taste buds change during a race.

There is one important caveat on this subject though, and that's that I know very little about nutrition for a 4 hour run - you'll probably need to take on more than I do during a marathon, simply because you're running for longer.  Have you had any problems with SIS gels in the past?  How many did you take?

Rachel, with the half marathon on a sunday you could do a 'mini taper': intervals & tempo on tuesday & wednesday as usual, lighter runs thursday & saturday.  There are some specific things you can do in those to help your race, we can talk about those nearer the time.

14/01/2013 at 17:26

Dave, I am a big fan of SIS gels. Another mistake I made in Liverpool is realising they used High 5 gels and only testing one once before the day. It was disgusting, but rather tha stick with what I knew, I bought a stack of High5's and used them on the day. I look back and think how foolish it was! On the subject of such things I am planning a trip to Sweatshop this eve as they have SIS gels on offer at 64p each! I'm planning to stock up!

Rest day today, tried not to notice how cold it felt when I came out of work. Tomorrow am is not going to be pleasant!!

14/01/2013 at 18:53

Another rest day eh Rachel, you seem to have plenty of them on your training plan 

I have now rivalled you on Run Britain so I can keep an eye on you 

14/01/2013 at 19:03

I've never had any problems with SIS gels - I think I've almost learnt to like them.  The consistency is more pleasant than some of the others - not so much like toothpaste. And the caffeine ones are good for an extra boost (imagined or real) at the end of a race. I think I took four or five gels during the marathon, with the first one after about 45 min to an hour, but I'm wondering if I should start taking on fuel earlier in the race.

Dave, I would be interested to know what specific things you are talking about above. I am doing a half on March 3, so it's still a way off yet.

14/01/2013 at 22:37

Hello all,
I'm planning either Belfast or Limerick on Mayday weekend and have 2 weeks done of an 18 week plan.

Returned to running 9 mths ago (AFTER 6 YEARS OFF!) when the scales were telling me I was 17 stone! Have done 3 halfs since and scales are now showing a more respectable 14 stone.

Looking for sub 4... most recent half was 1.53 .
PB for half is 1.41 but that was in another life 6 years ago when PB for marathon was 3.44!

LSR yesterday of 15 miles @ 9.30 m/mls with nice low avg HR of 140bpm.

Great see everyone's training is goimg well and more importantly that everyone seems to be enjoying it!

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