RW Forum Six – Sub 4 Running Rachel with Cheerful Dave

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27/01/2013 at 19:17
Will - great running. A seriously impressive pace for the distance considering the very long day you had yesterday.

Rachel - good to see you back running in the fresh air. Must have been a great feeling of freedom after the TM.
27/01/2013 at 20:03
Good to see you off the treadmill & back out in ur natural habitat Rachel.

Will - super running!

I had a bit of a deflating & disappointing LSR today. I struggled with last 2 miles of my planned 16miler and for the first time ever had to walk. 0.4 miles of the last mile to be exact. This is concerning. I felt lightheaded & vision a little blurry at times - would this be consistent with being out of fuel.?

Ended up running 15.6 miles avg pace 9.20. Ran with a companion and chatted most of the way round (so thought the pace was comfortable) - until mile 14 I just wilted quite suddenly & unexpectedly over a period of about 5 mins. I struggled on into a fierce headwind until 15 miles where I took a walk break for 10mins and then ran the final 0.6 mls of the 16 mile route.

Went out at 12.30 with no food since 8.30am breakfast and nothing with me on the run so putting it down to fuelling issues. Will have to come up with a fuelling strategy for next sun as I am due a 17miler.

A little deflated after that experience today I must admit and has me thinking I may need to rethink my goal time & pace.
27/01/2013 at 21:08
Thanks guys, think I might be a bit sore tomorrow!

Ricky, I have been playing with fuelling for early mornin long slow runs and think around 900 cals is my minimum needs roughly for 17 mile distance run.

basically I on my last 17 miler I did a clif bar, a small portion of granola and yog with a banana about an hr before running (total cals around 550). I then took a lucozade sport with me which I drank in the first hour (150 cals) partly for fuel but also hydration etc and I also took clif shot bloks with me an started popping one every 20 mins or so after the first hr (200 cals). Kept me just on the edge of that empty stomach feeling! But was enough to get me round without any wall hitting...

I find the timing v tricky to avoid stitch...
27/01/2013 at 21:10
Ps: disclaimer; I have a VERY sweet tooth and my tum can handle lots of lucozade/clf shot blok energy gel things ;o)
27/01/2013 at 21:10

Bizarre...thought I'd posted a reply before....

Anyway...Ricky, you are forgetting all about the successful first 14 miles that you had!  Which you ran at a decent old pace might I say! I could never run that far without fuel! I certainly wouldn't be rethinking my goal time or pace based on one dissappointing run! I'd see how the next few go before being too disheartened! What do you think Dave?

27/01/2013 at 21:20
Agree with Rachel Ricky, I would definitely review fuelling strategy for the next few runs and just see how they go. You did a solid 14 mile lsr today at a good pace so I wouldn't worry. Does sound like empty stomach to me...
27/01/2013 at 21:52
Rachel - you posted it on carter's thread.
27/01/2013 at 22:02

Come to think of it I remember commenting to my running buddy at mile 12/13 that I was feeling hungry .... he offered me jelly babies but foolishly I declined saying that it would pass  .... we learn from our mistakes I suppose.

27/01/2013 at 22:18

Ah!!!! Thanks Carl! Thought I was going mad!!!!

Cheerful Dave    pirate
27/01/2013 at 22:56

Ricky, sounds like a classic bonk to me.  It comes on suddenly, you feel like you have no energy left at all.  If you've been reading some of the other threads you'll notice some people like to run without eating much, but that's not something you can just do if you're used to running 'fuelled up'.   

Probably a good thing you've done it today - you'll hopefully have an idea of the early signs if it's going to happen again.  Not nice when you've a fair way to go!

28/01/2013 at 15:57
13 miles yesterday at 9.04 pace it was the windiest day I have ever run in I swear I was going back words at one point.
Interesting regarding eating I like to get my long run in early at least to be on the road by 7.30, as our runs get longer there is a need to eat before which means getting up earlier to let it settle,in addition I am now thinking about hydration don't really like running with a bottle in my hand, but guess it,s bottle v running belt?
Cheerful Dave    pirate
28/01/2013 at 17:08

Yes, it was windy yesterday, which makes any pacing troublesome.  Sometimes you just have to run and not worry about pacing too much.

If you're going to eat before a run then yes, you need to let it settle.  Some people can go further without eating, it's a personal thing.  You can adapt to an extent but I'd suggest that this point in spring marathon training probably isn't the time to be trying anything too experimental, unless you've got a real problem with what you're doing now!

Personally I rarely drink during any long run, unless it's stupidly hot which rules out January!  I do try & make sure I'm hydrated before I start though, as I'll get stomach cramps if I don't.  Certainly in the colder weather I would try & get used to running with less water, as long as you're still running comfortably.

If you want to have some water, there are some alternatives to carrying it with you:

Run a lapped course, and leave a bottle somewhere discreet so you can have some every lap.
Take a smaller bottle, and route somewhere you know you can fill up: water fountain, mates house, friendly running shop.  Avoid stagnant ponds though
Take some cash and buy a small bottle halfway round your run if you need one.

28/01/2013 at 19:53

Rest day today. Weather for the morning at 6 am looks positively balmy (6 degrees!). So it'll be up and out in the dark for me. Will test the niggle before launching into intervals...but here's hoping!

28/01/2013 at 19:58

It was blowing a gale yesterday but it was my first run outside in what felt like ages! Loved in and ran 11 miles @ 9.43 pace.

Looks like people are generally doing great! Well done everyone.

28/01/2013 at 20:11

I think I prefered last weeks weather.

It is raining and blowing a gale. Hopefully it will have calmed down by tomorrow night when I go for a tempo run.

Best of luck in the morning Rachel. I don;t know how you do those 6am runs.

28/01/2013 at 21:07
Another rest day Rachel ??? Hope the niggle isn't too bad and have a good interval session in the morning !
Good running everyone, lets hope we can step it up to the next level now that pesky snow and ice has gone !
28/01/2013 at 21:51

Dave  thanks for the advice... it did come on suddenly was quite disconcerting to be honest.
I am wondering was I a little dehydrated also - it was cold & windy so I didnt feel thirsty plus chatting distracted me from taking a few mouthfuls of water on each mile split which I normally do (only drank about 100mls whereas I usually take on a full 500 mils on an LSR. Had 3 layers on also and the bottom two were completely saturated with sweat at the end of the run - scales also said I had lost 3lbs during the run! Never felt warm at all though during the run with the biting wind.

Anyway - I'll take the positives and learn from it for the next one.

29/01/2013 at 11:32

4 miles done this morning. Niggle definitely better but still noticeable, so didn't chance the intervals.

29/01/2013 at 18:50
Bit of a head cold today - going to venture out as planned later. Might switch the tempo run to Thursday and just do steady 7 miler tonite instead .
29/01/2013 at 20:55

6 miles tonight in awful weather. Gale force winds and driving rain. Still, its better than the treadmill!

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