RW Forum Six – Sub 4 Running Rachel with Cheerful Dave

Will - I am running a HM on 24th Feb which is 6 weeks out from my marathon in Paris.

My aim is a PB in Paris. That said I would love a PB in my HM.

My LSR's between now and the HM are both 20 milers, one slow and one with 8 miles of MP run as 4 miles slow, 4 MP, 4 slow, 4 MP and 4 slow.

The HM is during my cut back week and then I go back to 20+ miles LSR's before my taper.

The HM course I am doing is not flat and it is not all on the road either so a PB might be unrealistic. If I get to the start line and I feel good I will go for it. Otherwise I will use it as a training session.

I reckon that all this training must mean that I can recover so if I push it a little I might have to ease off on some the runs the week after but in the scheme of things should be ok.

Makes sense ?

Will I think you'll be fine pushing on for a PB... my half PB also came 5 weeks before my marathon ... and I ran sub 3.45 in the mara (just!) as planned. I suppose the only risk is increased chance of an injury but as long as you don't pull/strain anything 5 weeks is plenty of recovery time for a race effort IMO. You will find that this is the time for a PB with your Mara training having just peaked so why not put it to good use - go for it! Good mental boost too pre-marathon.

Go caz - I suppose the pace is easier to control on the treadmill for tempo running but I'm of the opinion nothing beats a session out on the road/track. Mind you better doing a treadmill session than no session at all.

I just had my 1st treadmill run in years tonight - bit of a novelty running an easy 5 miler while watching Top Gear on I-Player! Forgot about that "floaty" feeling when you get off the machine at the end of the session -  definitely odd

Will, 5 weeks should be fine, as long as you don't do anything silly like averaging 8 min miles by starting at 7 and finishing at 9+.  The good thing about doing a half off marathon training rather than moving up from 10k is that if you find the right pace you'll be able to cruise through at the same speed all the way. 

On the subject of races and pacing, does anyone use a gps for pace in a race?  If you do, beware that they're not always accurate and you're usually better off using the mile markers and taking splits manually.  The London marathon is notorious for this, the gps signals through the high rise buildings around Canary Wharf always through it out.  There are many tales of people doing fancy tricks with their garmin, like setting up virtual pacers and all that, but that's not much help when it tells you you've finished 26.2 miles in 3:58 but you're only halfway down birdcage walk with half a mile to go!

Sorry, that started turning into a bit of a rant! 

Will, while I remember, a tip for the reading half: they've had problems in the past starting on time: they can't start until all road closures are in place and they don't want to do those too early.  If it's a chilly morning, and you're using a bin liner or old top for warmth, leave it right to the last moment before getting rid.

I ran it many years ago and they put the start back by half an hour, literally 2 minutes from the scheduled start.  Lots of people in running vests huddled together like penguins for warmth!  Good event though.  I think they finissh in the football stadium these days.

But a good one CD.  It's the same advice we always give to our marathon runners too.  I even go as far as switching the screen to show time only.

If you take laps manually at each mile marker and display "average lap time" it'll effectively be giving you your average pace.  If you forget at any marker, press the lap button at any point to get you back on track: as long as the total number of laps equals the number of miles completed then you're fine.

Although if you're aiming to average a nice round number, like 8 minutes per mile, you don't really need pace at all: the maths is straightforward. 

I think the straightforwardness of maths decreases with each mile run! I would agree with you Dave about Garmins in central London. I run along Embankment quite often and the pace always seems to be way out, ie faster than I can possibly be running! So if you just use average lap time, do think it is accurate? I have had problems with even that in the past - thinking I am running a certain pace but it turned out to have been slower than I thought...

Caz, if you're showing current pace it'll always vary hugely.  Just check the fastest pace during any run, it's usually way faster than you can manage.  Using average pace is better and fine for training, as long as you're not worried about a few seconds a mile.  I find it fairly consistent over routes I do frequently, which doesn't necessarily mean it's accurate, it could be consistently inaccurate, but it does allow comparison of runs.  They're useful tools but lots of people managed to train for marathons before they were invented, so you don't have to be a slave to it.

If you uploaded your runs to garmin connect or strava so you could plot them on a map, you might be surprised where it thinks you've been running.  According to some uploads from VLM, the marathon route goes through at least one high rise block and involves a swim across one of the docks... 

In a race with mile markers the best solution is to turn autolapping off completely and just do it manually.

Thanks Dave, I will try that. I'm not too concerned about training paces, more pacing for races - VLM in particular!

Will, in a race with lots of runners like Reading you can use the crowds to your advantage in keeping the pace sensible early on, as long as you avoid the temptation to speed up at the first sign of a gap.  Some people start to panic when they feel they're being held back by slower runners, but your plan of running it as a negative split (2nd half quicker than the first) is a good one.  I'm not sure you really mean 'as fast as possible' on the downhill though!

Mile 3 at London is downhill, so inevitably it's a bit quicker than mile 2, but ideally it's still run at the same effort rather than an all out attempt to make the most of it.

I was pretty sure that's what you meant Will, but I've heard people say in the past that they're going to make the most of the downhill to get 'time in the bank' which is a mistake.