RW Forum Six – Sub 4 Running Rachel with Cheerful Dave

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17/02/2013 at 14:41
Excellent Ricky, is that the first 20 miler? Running the last 6 that quick is a great effort at this stage.. Are you doing London? I forget...
17/02/2013 at 15:49
Yes Will first 20 miler. I'm doing a Mayday bank hol Marathon - either Limerick or Belfast... Haven't committed to one or the other yet though!

Are you in for London?
17/02/2013 at 16:59
Yes indeed, vlm for me. You shld just pick the flattest one ;o)
Cheerful Dave    pirate
17/02/2013 at 17:18
Nice 20 Ricky. Being able to stick in some MP miles at the end of your first one is a good sign. What are your plans for you long run from now on? 20+ on alternate weeks, something like that? You've got plenty of time before your race, don't want to peak early!
17/02/2013 at 17:56
Thanks Dave - i have to admit over the last 2 weeks I've been doing a few more miles than the original plan had me scheduled for - e.g. today was only supposed to be 18 and 44 for the week.

You have me a little worried now - thought getting longer long runs in early in the plan would build more endurance for the race. Never considered peaking too early! I have just finished wk 7 of an 18 week plan.

I have the following weekly LSRs starting nxt sunday planned in:
20, 14, 21, 22, HM, 22, 14, 22, 14, 10, Mara.

Now next suns LSR will be my 3rd in a row as I was due to take a cutback week in week6 but did a full 47 mile week with 17.5 miler instead (because I missed 2 sessions + LSR thru illness in wk 5). Do you think I should take cutback week now rather than wait to the following wk? If I do this however it means the following 3 weeks will be heavy weeks with HM week as the next cutback week.
17/02/2013 at 18:13

Some impressive stuff going on.

I didn't get a long run in this weekend, but just did my fastest tempo run for some time: 4 miles at 8 min mile pace. It was good to get the heart rate up!


17/02/2013 at 18:14
Dave - are these training plans for first timers or experienced marathoners as well ? Lets say you run your first one using a plan, have a couple of weeks recovery, how would you approach your training for your next marathon if it was in say 4 months ? I wouldn't have thought you would start right at the beginning of a plan as you gave built up a good base from your previous race ? So, how do you know if you have peaked too early ?
17/02/2013 at 19:08

p&d has "multiple marathon" plans for different gaps between races- longest one is 12 weeks between marathons- it gives you 3 farily light weeks after the race with 7, 10, 13 mile LSR's before going back up to 16,18,15,20,17,20,17 then 2 week taper. So although you aren't starting right back, you do get a bit of recovery time. The shorter plans still give you the light 3 weeks to recover, so you end up with very few decent LSR's, but presumably you are carrying the fitness over.

17/02/2013 at 20:55

Ricky - seems to me that even with your week out for manflu that you are ready to smash your marathon pb. There is probably something in what Dave is saying as you want to turn up on the start line on race day sans fatigue but you do seem to be getting stronger every week.

Very interesting discussion on training for multiple marathons. Just want to get this one right before I start thinking about the next one.

Before I moved onto a structured plan (my own version of a Hal Higdon merged with advice from these forums) I had been runnning 20 / 25 miles per week for about 10 weeks with 3 runs per week.

I then had 14 weeks to marathon day and have (apart from this week) been doing 5 runs per week, 40 - 50 miles per week with the usual mixtures of runs thrown in.

Once I have completed this marathon (with or without the pb I am hoping for) I must look at all the difefrent training plans that people are talking about and try and work out why some reckon that they are better than the ones made up on this forum.


17/02/2013 at 22:02

Bramley 20 today in 3hr 10 min, first 15 mile 9.30-9.50 depending on hills, then last 2 miles around 8min 20, a bit quick at the end i know but its given me confidence , just need to improve my speed work, LSR's fine

Cheerful Dave    pirate
17/02/2013 at 22:27

I didn't mean to ruin anyone's confidence with the comment about peaking too early, it's just that some people ramp up to 20 miles early, run that every week and by the time their marathon comes along they're feeling a bit jaded.  Ricky's plan of a shorter one every few weeks is sensible, looking at your plan there's 6 runs of 20 miles or more, split up by shorter runs.  That's about right I think, it's more than some recommend but there's scope for illness or life getting in the way and missing one or two of those and still going into the marathon with a solid block of long runs.  To manage MP at the end of your first long run is impressive though!

Carter has a point, most plans assume you're starting from scratch or a minimal base - they go out the window to an extent for multiple marathons.  If you're going into a plan having just completed one then you need to adapt it, partly because you won't need to build up your long runs from 10 miles, and also because you'll need an element of recovery from your marathon.  P&D has the essentials there, but you need to adapt it to what works for you.  Your experiences in the first marathon might tell you what you need to work on to correct whatever went wrong!  The basics of a few weeks recovery/not much structure, then get the quality midweek runs back in and then re-start the long runs is going to set you on the right track.  You just need to adapt to suit the timescale you have available.

SL, that's a nice run at Bramley, should give you a lot of confidence.

17/02/2013 at 22:55

Ok Dave thanks for that - I think I'll continue on building up this week and see how I feel come next weekend. If I'm tired I'll either do a shorter LSR or else do the 20 mls but slow all the way with no MP. Really would prefer to take my cutback not this incoming week but next week! Will play it by ear & go on feel though.

Simon good race today - a hilly course I believe?! Great to have a strong, fast finish like you did - bet you were passing loads of poor sods struggling. Nice feeling!

Carl - not so sure about smashing my PB!.... but would like to get fairly close to my PB & will be happy with that.... now you will deffo smash yours - you could easily go out now and destroy it!

Edited: 17/02/2013 at 22:58
18/02/2013 at 00:00

Ricky - the only thing I would smash right now would be my lungs.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
18/02/2013 at 07:53

Ricky, that's right.  I'd also say that your LSR closer to the race should have less MP in it rather than more.  It sounds a bit counterintuitive but the long run isn't done to teach yourself how to run at MP, it's teaching yourself to run for a long time.  Too much too close to the marathon risks burning some matches that are best saved for race day (to use an analogy from another thread!).

If you're feeling tired, you should listen to what your body is telling you.  It's a fine line between needing a motivational kick out the door when you don't feel like running and being genuinely in need of a rest.  Closer to the race though, when you're panicing that you haven't done enough training (everyone fels like that) it's sometimes more difficult to take a break when you need one, if you see what I mean.  You need to rest but you think your marathon will be over if you don't get in that extra 5 miler.

18/02/2013 at 19:39

Shattered today, but have been re-fuelling well.

Just after some advice, I've a 20miler planned on 24th March, I understand that I should aim to do 1 22miler before the day, should I do this the week before or after the 24th, or doesn't it matter. Thanks in advance

18/02/2013 at 21:57

Simon what marathon/date are you aiming at?.... i'm sure you have told us but I have forgotten & am too lazy to read back

Dave will I'm sure be along shortly to help you out with the timing of your 22miler however my thoughts would be to have your 22 miler as your last or 2nd last long run before your taper.

Slow 3 mile recovery run on the treadmill tonight after yesterdays LSR exploits.

18/02/2013 at 21:58

Not posted in a while but I am sorry to hear about health problems Rachel. Fingers crossed you get some good news in early March.

My own running is going pretty well. I did just over 15 miles yesterday @ 9.45 pace. The first 12 at about 9.50-55, with the last 3 at 9.26, 9.23, 9.21.

Generally sounds like everyone is doing pretty well, so thats good to hear!

18/02/2013 at 22:00

Rachel - nice speedy tempo run yesterday... its hard work at the time but a nice buzz when you get it done!

Good going James - nice to be able to lift the pace in the last few miles of a Long run - and good training benefits (so I am told) too!

Edited: 18/02/2013 at 22:02
18/02/2013 at 22:02

Ricky W - VLM 2013

Cheerful Dave    pirate
19/02/2013 at 08:35

Simon, at the risk of stating the obvious why not just do 22 on 24th March?  I don't normally like to do 20s on consecutive weekends so I'd hesitate to recommend doing it before or after. 

Since you're already up to 20s one idea would be to go for alternate weekends from now which would give you 3 more, finishing on the weekend of 31st March, which is easter weekend.  You could add a couple of extra miles to any of those, unlikely to be a problem if you're finishing as strongly as you did the last one. 

Having said that though, you could probably get away with an extra one on the 24th as long as it's an easy one.

James, that's a nice 15 with a good finish.  A good place to be at this point, if they stay like that as the runs get longer you'll be set fair. 

Edited: 19/02/2013 at 08:37
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