RW Forum Six – Sub 4 Running Rachel with Cheerful Dave

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Cheerful Dave    pirate
19/03/2013 at 09:12

Nice to see 8:52 described as leisurely, Rachel.  You've still got it!

Will, at what point did you realise 1:45 might be on?  You made up a lot in the second half - I'm not surprised you got a stitch after a throwing in a 7:26! 

19/03/2013 at 21:13
Carter, that's a great time, well done. What's that sub 7'30 min miles the entire way - really impressive.

Nice Rachel, how are you feeling about the marathon?

Dave, I always thought I would start conservatively and really go for it in the second half! I think I always thought it was on and poss even a bit better until I had to slow down for the stitch. Then I realised it was going to be really tight about 2 miles from the end!
19/03/2013 at 21:36

Will - great running from you at the weekend.

Rachel - running in daylight and a leisurely run at that. Well done you.

Have got round 2 of the dreaded flu and after bearing with it since Sunday gave in today and came home early to see the Doc. He has concluded that rest is the most important but prescribed antibiotics as I suspect he thought that is what I wanted.

I know I need to rest and not panic but it is hard. It has been a tough winter and alot has gone into the training. And paris is 2 weeks on Sunday and  and and ....

So I was planning a normal distance / pace midweek session of tempo, MLR and intervals with a reuced LSR of 12 miles this weekend.

Next week I was planning on reducing the distance of the midweek runs and their intensity and then doing an 8  mile LSR.

I am going to be sensible eventhough my head is telling me that I need to run, and skip tonight and tomorrows run. I will try and get out onThursday for an easy 4 - 6 miles. All going well I will get the 12 miler in at the weekend.

Then next week during the week I will do what I was planning to do this week if that makes sense.

Really frustrating ....

19/03/2013 at 22:06

Carl - looking at the "glass is half full" perspective:

- better to be ill now & get recovered rather than it to happen in 2 weeks & on the eve of Paris.
- if you have to take time off for illness/injury during your training there is no better timing for it than the start of your taper.

Rachel - sounds like you are running freely & stress free which has to be a good thing.

Will - I am doing Larne HM (N Ireland) on Saturday. It is an out & back/double ended lollipop course with 11 miles out & back along the coast road complete with scenic views of the Scottish coastline & gale force winds if the weather is bad (which it is forecast to be ), It is reasonably fast & flat though - half mile climb out the town early on and then a steeper half mile pull inland in the mid section.

Tempo run tonight for me: 6 miles - first mile w/up 8.17 pace, last 5 at tempo 7.48 pace.

19/03/2013 at 22:22
Thanks Carl. Real bummer about the flu BUT as Ricky says actually not bad timing. Maybe your body needs a little rest and it does tie in with your taper nicely perhaps. Hope it clears up soon in any case but perhaps running thur may do more harm than good? Is it flu or man flu?

Ricky, disregarding the gales(!) you seem in fine fettle with a good paced tempo today. Feeling fit surely? Go for it Saturday, bet you surprise yourself!
19/03/2013 at 22:23
Ps my legs are SO sore from Sundays race. Got a 7am run planned for tomorrow, 0c is the forecast!
Cheerful Dave    pirate
20/03/2013 at 09:32
Will Cross 2 wrote (see)
Dave, I always thought I would start conservatively and really go for it in the second half!

Will, in that case it was perfectly executed.  It takes a lot of confidence to run slower than your planned average pace but it's the best way to a good time.  You must have been passing loads of people in the second half. 

The 'go for it from the start and hang on' approach that Ricky's using for his half can work in a half (up to a point!) but not over twice the distance.  It'll be a good test of where he is though, and a good pointer to what MP should be.

20/03/2013 at 19:57
Sore legs means it was a good hard effort from you Will!

Dave - I rested on Monday after my 22miler the day before and did a 6 mile tempo yesterday & 5.5 miles today with a 8 x 250 hill session.
My question is, given I have my HM on Saturday morning and Friday is a natural rest day for me anyway, should I take tomorrow as an additional rest day to give me two full days rest before the race?
Or should I go out tomorrow for an easy run to keep the legs loosened up?

Which is likely to leave me in better place for a hard effort on Saturday??
20/03/2013 at 22:32
Thanks dave - think I did pass a lot more people than passed me that's for sure! What do you think about my target mp? Am thinking 8'45 for first half and 8'35 for miles 13-20 and then just see what happens in the final six. Seem about right with my HM in mind?

Good point Ricky! This is actually the first time I've been sore like that from a run this year!
20/03/2013 at 22:35
Ps: 2 easy miles and a nice easy feeling tempo of 8 miles at 8'35 this morning. Have lost the art of the early morning run though (7am today)!
20/03/2013 at 23:00
Ricky - I think it's a case of trying both ways out and seeing which suits you best. For me, 2 days rest prior to a race seems to work.

Will - things are looking positive for you.

I have a dodgy knee (ITB) Need to see a professional
Cheerful Dave    pirate
20/03/2013 at 23:12

Ricky, personally I'd go for an easy run tomorrow.  The hard weeks you've been doing as marathon prep should mean that you're recovering from the hard midweek runs pretty quickly, and you'd barely notice an easy run, and as you say it'll keep you nice and loose.

If you did an easy run Friday it probably wouldn't affect your half (not that I'm suggesting you change your plan, just making a point).  Some people like to go for an easy run the day before a marathon, with a few strides thrown in (accelerate to race pace for 50m or so) just to get things going. 

Will, a 1:45 HM converts roughly to a 3:40 to 3:45, so your pace seems about right, give or take.  A slower first half is a good plan, especially since you've proven that you can run like that, but I'd suggest that once you've got to 10k in around 54 minutes or so that you don't worry about your speed drifting up a bit - you're better off with a gradual acceleration rather than any sudden changes in pace.  Your stitch in that HM may have been down to what was quite a change in pace.  Just don't let it drift up too much, keep a lid on it until 20 miles at any rate.

I have in the past made the mistake of having a nice steady first half, then getting to halfway and carried away early in the second half, because I was expecting to run a negative split.  The 10k between 25-35k (this was Berlin, no mile markers) was too quick and the last 7k were painful to say the least.  Overall I'd have been better keeping that for 30-40k.  The one downside of a slower first half is that you're constantly fighting the urge to go quicker!

Cheerful Dave    pirate
20/03/2013 at 23:14

Oh dear carter, hope that's not too serious.  Get stretching!

20/03/2013 at 23:18
Thanks carter, I have a small niggle on my left ankle if any consolation. There always seems to be some minor injury for me! Hope the itb gets sorted sharpish.

Thanks dave, interesting. So hold easy for 10k but then don't worry too much about holding back I.e. it's not an issue to hit 8'35 miles from mile 7 onwards in the marathon you think?
Cheerful Dave    pirate
21/03/2013 at 07:11

As long as you feel you're still holding back at that pace I think you'll be fine Will.  You just don't want to feel like you're forcing the speed up that early on.

21/03/2013 at 07:46
Got you dave, makes sense, thanks
21/03/2013 at 21:30

Well the weather here has made my mind up whether to run or not - blowing an absolute gale out there so sofa for me tonight.

On a more worrying note my HM may be cancelled on Saturday due to bad weather. 30 cms of snow & gale force winds predicted tomorrow & into Saturday

Route is a coastal route for 10ish miles so even if the race proceeds the winds will be brutal and rule out any realistic chance of a PB.

Not happy.

21/03/2013 at 22:26
Oh shit Ricky, doesn't sound good at all. Maybe the FC will change a bit tomorrow?

I'm off to Cornwall at 6am for a week of family holiday so may not be able to chek in for a bit. Ricky good luck for Saturday if it goes ahead - look fwd to hearing how it goes if so.

Happy running everyone. Got my last 20 miler on Sunday and then basically into the taper for London, gulp!
21/03/2013 at 23:09

Checking in to see how everyone is getting along. Hard to believe that we can have such a snow fall coming up to Easter. Madness.

Emjoy your hols Will.

I am much the same as earlier in the week. This whole flu / virus thing is beginning to wear me down. Despite antibiotics,fruit, vitamins, fluids etc it is refusing to budge. Beginning to worry that this marathon may not happen for me. It all depends on how many more days does it stop me from running and how much time is left to get in some decent sessions. I do not think I could go all that way just to plod around to the finish line.


22/03/2013 at 07:38

That's no fun Carl. Is there any others you could realistically do slightly later?

Had to pretty much resign myself to the fact I'm pulling out of MK. Two weeks of no running. Had physio and it's definitely sciatic nerve, and might take a while. Even walking is really painful atm so prettttyfrustrating! Hoping to do a marathon in my home town end of June instead but its hilly and the course is pretty rubbish, but I guess for my first one it doesn't matter too much - means I can get a pb for my second one if I find a flatter one!

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