RW Forum Six – Sub 4 Running Rachel with Cheerful Dave

Thanks Carter, yes, I possibly should run it slower..I just find slow hard! Will wait to see if I get a slap on the wrist from Dave! How's your ankle doing?

I've done a parkrun once last year with Jess who posted here last week. She is MUCH younger than me (and fast!) I decided to try and keep up with her and managed 23 mins. I don't think I'll ever run that fast again, and my word, it hurt!

As long as you were running it easy then pace is to an extent incidental.  You're better off running on how you feel rather than to a fixed pace because we don't really know what your marathon pace is yet.  When you get longer (say 16 miles) we'll need to watch for you going too fast, though.

As for music, well I'd echo what Spoons said.  By all means use it in training, but be prepared to have to run your races without it.  Sometimes it's banned, and even if it isn't, a race is a completely different vibe to long miles on your own and better experienced without a backing track, IMO.

On that note, it's worth having a thought (maybe during your long runs) on what you'd do if things aren't ideal on the day.  You might not be able to use music, your watch might give up on you before you start, you might drop gels, all sorts of things.  Some people will panic when that happens, others just get on with it.  They're the ones who have at least thought about what they'd do beforehand, so it doesn't come as a complete surprise.

I sometimes use parkruns as part of a longer run (anything from 10 to 20 miles) just to vary the pace and try something different.  Although these days I'm more often taking my son to our nearest one.  That's what we did this morning.  23 minutes is pretty decent, there's definitely some speed there!

carterusm wrote (see)

Dave - do more experienced runners like you mentally prepare for training runs or do you just lace up and get on with it ?

I guess I'm closer to just lace up and get on with it, although longer runs take a bit more planning, if only to fit in around family life.  You have to at least think about what you're going to do for that training run, and you still need motivation to get out of the door when it's wet and miserable outside! 

Carter, it's really a case of not really knowing what her marathon pace is.  Trying to prescribe a set pace aimed at a fairly arbitrary target is likely to mean she's running either too fast or too slow for her ability.  Running to how she feels (easy runs feel easy, hard runs feel hard) is a simpler version of running to heartrate. 

Interesting discussions indeed...I actually think I have the potential to run a fair bit faster than 4 hours...I think it's the preparation that let me down last time and making some silly mistakes. I love the feeling of having done a long run at a 9 min mile or faster, I just don't get the same "glow" after a slower run...That said, I know that it might be detremental once I up the miles...

Mind you, I'm also far too optimistic at times too....which probably doesn't help!!

Dd, we ran an almost identical time! What's your target again?

The 4 hour target was based on Rachel's first marathon which by her own admission was poorly executed, and I would agree with her that she can probably run a bit quicker than that.  Today's run was fine, I don't think it was too quick if Rachel was running easily and she did manage to pick the pace up towards the end which indicates that she was running well within herself. 

It's not such a big deal if a 10 miler is too quick anyway, it's more important for the proper long runs later in the schedule.  We'll need to look at a proper target nearer the race.

Dd, you have the knowledge that you've done it before at least! And the weather in Manchester was dreaful last year wasn't it! Probability says, it MUST be going to be better this year!

Rachel, just popping in to see how youa re getting on and find a fascinating discussion about pace. I agree that pace is a relative thing.

I cannot do easy runs at 10:00mm. I recognise that I need to run long runs slower than I am capable of running and have really being trying very hard to get mine around 9:30mm. This will hopefully benefit me when I get to marathon day.

But the most interesting thing about this pace for a LSR is that out of all the runs I do during the week it is becoming my least favorite because it is just about putting the miles in and not having that buzz from having had a great run. And in marathon terms it is a great run but the brain does not recognise it as such. Make sense ?

My natural slow pace is probably about 9:20mm.

I asked spoons what pace I should do a recovery run tomorrow morning at and he said conversational pace. Now thats a new one.

I can have a conversation when running at 9:20mm but as I did my 14.5m LSR today in 9:35mm I think I need to do my recovery run in the morning a little slower.

I say run at the pace that you find comfortable and just be aware of the toll on your body of the increased mileage.

H Carl!

I think you're right- long runs are just dull without the reward of the "I've just run fast " buzz. I may well have to learn to love them...

What time are you aiming for out of interest?

Funnily enough I find Sunday recovery runs easiest to do slowly, but maybe that's just because I'm shattered after the long run on Saturday!?

Rachel - I have set myself a target of 3:45 and I am running Paris on 7th April. I will let you know how my recovery run goes in the morning. I have never really done these before and it should be the slow run of the week as this week has been challenging as I did tempo on Tues, easy on Weds, intervals on Thursday and LSR today.

Good stuff Carl- will this be your first marathon or are you a seasoned 26.2 miler?

Carl, I'm sure sub 4's achievable, you've certainly made a great start with the training.

I've just got in form a 3 mile recovery run. Ran it without looking at my watch at all, and thoroughly enjoyed it. That said checked watch when back and pace was 9.14 mm. I love those runs when everything feels "right" and this was one

So, week 1 proper of training done. 25 miles in total. Anything I need to doin week 2 Dave? Obviously tomorrow is a rest day, but am wondering whether I should be aiming for a faster interval pace on Tuesday? (which incidentally is going to be a barrel of laughs cos I'll need to go at 6am before work and it will be dark!! Urgh!!!!)

Your intervals should really be at whatever you can sustain through the 4 minutes rather than aiming for a specific pace.  I'd expect them to get a bit quicker over the coming weeks but the first ones are always a bit variable, so don't panic if they're not radically quicker than last week.

Take care in the dark too.  Trying to run quickly in the dark is when you're likely to have an accident, so look out for yourself.