Sub 3 - schedules schedules schedules

what has worked for you

12 messages
30/09/2005 at 16:39
Hello all,

I've got a place for FLM 2006 and this year, I'm determined to crack 3 hours. At FLM 2005 I clocked 3:00:42 so I've got a pretty good idea that I can shed those extra 43 seconds.

My question is this - what schedules have worked for those of you with sub 3 times?

Last time round, I followed the RW schedule from the magazine and whilst it got me close, I feel that there weren't quite enough miles. I reckon that this is what caused me to slow down in the last two miles of FLM 2005. To combat this, I'm doing my first ever block of base-building - 3 months of high volume (for me!) slow miles, to get me to the start of a focussed marathon schedule.

I've had a look at the Higdon plans, Horwill's "14-day cycles" and the RW sub-3 on this site but I'm not strongly drawn to any of them.

So what has worked for you? Do share!

the bat
03/10/2005 at 09:45
03/10/2005 at 12:06
"Marathoning from start to finish" on the Serpentine website is what I am using, but with a couple of minor mods.

Does it work?

Well I hope to find out this weekend when I run in Cardiff. Tops out at around 75mpw which I think is enough in terms of volume.

Frank Horwill is just too damned complicated.

Incidentally I was less than 5 mins behind you in FLM05
03/10/2005 at 12:37
Cheers DN

I'll take a look at that bit on the Serpie website - my problem is finding a schedule that incorporates all aspects that I think have worked in the past (threshold runs + hills) but excludes those that send me to the physio (fast speedwork and huge miles)

Might have to make some mods to a few schedules and bolt them all together.

Good luck at Cardiff - I hope you beat my FLM time by more than a minute!
03/10/2005 at 18:41
BF - I followed the sub 3 guide for FLM03 and got a 3:13 - there just wasn't enough training time between me starting running from scratch in winter 2004 and a spring marathon.

Between then and Berlin (25/09) I think there were 2 factors that lead to me going comfortably sub 3:

Increased speed over 10k - I put this down to a weekly VO2 track session and very regular track races over the summer. I was able to get sub 37:30 despite 60+ mile weeks.

Longer long runs. I hit 27 miles once (ran a 10k pb the following day, so couldn't have hurt too much!) and also did a 23 miler in preperation this time. Looking at my training log, only one other run was over 20 miles.

03/10/2005 at 19:23
A vote for...
Pfitzinger and Douglas 18-week 70 miles per week schedule (bet you'd never thought I'd say that).

It's a hard schedule, especially what with the mid-week 15 milers but it certainly paid off, as I knocked nearly 10 min off my previous best.
I can't say I followed it precisely 'cos I way tri-ing for the first half of it, but made sure that I got the key sessions in and replaced a couple of recovery runs with bike sessions.
03/10/2005 at 21:06
just checked my log - in 12 weeks before berlin I did 5 20+ mile runs with the longest being a very hilly 23M. However following P+D I also did another 14 runs of half distance or longer, most done at marathon pace. I know this is faster than what the book says but my body just about held together and it worked for me.
03/10/2005 at 21:48
They reckon if you're 5 longest runs are over 100 miles you're in good shape.

Also, what worked for me was lots of long mileage weeks, up till around 3wks before the marathon, then a lot of shorter faster stuff and the week before,every run around MP.

Also ran twice a day a few times.
04/10/2005 at 09:31
thanks all!

my hope was to find a schedule that contained threshold and longer interval sessions, ie 1 mile repeats instead of Yasso 800s. Too much short speedy stuff just gets me injure!

The RW schedule last year which included threshold type runs got me down from 3:13 at FLM03 to 3:00:42 this year but not enough miles to get me to the line at one pace.

I have to say, 70 miles/week on P&D is a bit scary as I peaked at 47 mpw for FLM05. Perhaps some tinkering and replacing of sessions would be called for.

Any advice on which ones would be least detrimental to ditch/ shorten?

cheers, the bat
04/10/2005 at 17:40
The schedule my coach made me up had loads of long reps eg- 10 miles but with 3 times 2 miles at 10k pace with 2 mins jog recovery between reps, incorporated in the run.

Very tough, but rewarding.
04/10/2005 at 21:46
P+D doesn't have any speedwork up until ~7 weeks to go and then it's included within longer runs as your coach suggests hannkies. Reps are between 800m and 1M at 5K pace. Although I've got to admit I did do a few yasso type reps earlier in the build-up to keep some pace for club races.

As for which bits to pick out from P+D - I think the multiple medium long runs of 13-15M really made a difference as well as running 8-10M club night runs hard with the quick lads.
70mpw is scary but it is do-able, takes a lot of commitment and time, but it did work.
05/10/2005 at 10:56
Thanks Toucan - I've certainly got the committment and certainly got the time, it is my injury-prone right leg that is the sticking point!

I'll take it all on board and get back to you with a sample week for my schedule. Then you can all examine it with a jeweller's eye piece.

the bat

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