Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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19/08/2009 at 21:54

Marigold - LOL. Hadn't seen that. I did see that he wore a rather expensive looking aerodynamic lid for the ride though. His bike's probably worth a few bob too.

How hot, kinase? Cos it's pishing down here, and I might want to swap weather. 9 easy miles tonight, and soaked to the bone in the first 5 minutes.

Last night was first speed session for ages (months). 6min, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 efforts, with 50% recovery time in between. Think I just about hit notional 5k pace, averaging 5:51 for the efforts (or some flash fella's warm down pace, as it's now known). It means I probably need to find another excuse than lack of speedwork for only managing 6:32 pace for 10m last Saturday.

Edited: 19/08/2009 at 21:54
19/08/2009 at 22:07

Evening folks.

Mental read-back PtB. You're putting the rest of us to shame. Glad to hear it sounds like you're going well. Don't worry about the 10m race. All improvements are good improvements and there can be too many variables as to why it's not as much as you wanted.

selbs - fingers crossed you can resolve the ITBS one way or another. If 30-40 minutes is your limit though, would it not be an idea to gently push that limit, even by 1min on one run per week just to try force some adaptation?

Looking much improved already Marigold.

Nice 800 and mile reps from PP and marmite too.

coro - if the peroneal tendon is the one that runs around and under the ankle (IIRC) I had issues with it whilst coming back from my s-f (compensation). It required some quite intensive self manipulation. Basically a warming oil and dig your fingers in and work away from the heart. In my case it was caused by a gristle buildup from rubbing/inflammation (obviously though you should get a physio opinion to be sure that you've got the same).

RB - lol Sorry to hear you're still getting gyp from the tummy. Get some Aloe Vera juice down you. My excess sweating is because I am retaining masses of water because of my tummy problems so if you're having similar issues, then maybe.... (how girly* is it to be talking about water retention on a running forum? ). I'm seeing somebody next week that can hopefully help get me going on the next stage of getting my IBS righted......

Very disappointed with the IAAF's timing on the Semenya announcement. I mean right before the final? Ironically though, we had been joking about it beforehand, but interesting to hear that you could be born a woman and still class as a man in the IAAF's eyes if your chemicals are at the 'wrong' levels. Though as Mrs TT pointed out, if that was always the case, then how come she improved by 8s over 800m in such a short space of time?

Another strong aerobic fartlek session for me this evening (scorchio in this neck of the woods too and a bit blustery in places to make it interesting!). 2m w/u, then 3 x 2m @ Mara PB pace off of 0.5m jog recoveries - 11:26, 11:22, 11:23 (so an avg of 5:42 basically), then a 0.5m jog and, because of the heat opted to finish with a 5m medium (30:14 - 6:03m/m), rather than any more 2m reps. Delighted with how it all felt in the heat and given that I felt really rubbish most of the day. End result was 11 effort miles out of 12.5m (16m total incl w/u & c/d) at an average pace of 5:51m/m.

* apologies to all the laydees on the thread.

20/08/2009 at 08:32
Hello Everyone, i am really struggling with my training at the moment, doing a sub3 attempt at Abingdon. I just dont seem on it at the moment. Went out last night and tried to a 4 mile Temp run and struggled to hit my 6:30 target pace. i am not sure if i am ready for a sub 3. Mcmillan website says i need a 1:25 for a half for a sub 3, i do not think i could run a 1:25 which i have a target race next month. Do i carry on and try and get a 1:25 and perhaps blow up or adjust target MP for Abingdon? Averaging 50 miles per week and trying to hit 60 - 70 over the next few weeks. I am trying MP paced runs which seem o.k, struggling with threshold, Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Edited: 20/08/2009 at 08:32
20/08/2009 at 09:03

TT - thanks for the thoughts - nice training there btw - basically what you suggest is exactly what i am trying to do, just have no confidence it is working or that i am making any progress but i'll keep plugging away with v small increases and see what happens. 

Z666 - abingdon is still a fair way off still isn't it??  i'd do at least a couple of days taper for your half marathon and give it a good go, and let that tell you where you are at, otherwise just keep plugging away, if u keep getting 60-70 miles in them i'm sure the improvements you need will come.  MTR's advice just recently about the 3 key runs a week sounds spot on to me.

20/08/2009 at 09:20

Morning, and happy training to all.

Gobi, Great news on the continued running rehab.

PP, Congrats on the pb, more to come! Good news on the
cricket front. Hope you see some good stuff and the return of the urn.

Jock, Excellent podium.

Gred, As MtR said.

Benched at the mo. After last Thursdays session, hamstring felt dodgy indeed, not as it had done with the tendonitis, but more like a normal pull.
Resting now and it is starting to improve.
Hoping to get back out there by Monday.

Edited: 20/08/2009 at 09:21
20/08/2009 at 09:43

interesting quote from the SA team manager... 

South Africa team manager Phiwe Mlangeni-Tsholetsane would not confirm or deny that Semenya was having a gender test, but insisted: "There was no cheating on our part.

"We entered Caster as a woman and we want to keep it that way."

do they have a choice?

20/08/2009 at 10:05
absolutely wacked out this morning, spent yesterday reccying an off road marathon round the North York Moors, didn't measure it but got lost a couple of times so reckon I managed more like 27 or 28 miles.  It took a long time, including about an hour for 1 km fighting my way through waist high vegetation, I never found that footpath!  No idea how this helps me fo Nottingham, which is getting very near very quickly, 3 and half weeks to go.  Managed 2 miles this morning, and I am praying for rain so I don't have to paint the house.

Loads t catch up on, I'll read back later
20/08/2009 at 10:26

PtB - ta for mentioning the bargain Skylons at Sweatshop!  Will register my EA card later and buy some for Abo

Training is up and down, but couldn't give a shit!  A 10 mile running week during the work-life week from hell was followed by a tremendously therapeutic 200 mile coast-to-coast bike ride, and then a 99 mile running week with lots of quality (reverse-OCD prevents the ton-up).  Consistently inconsistent but fun nonetheless.  Currently in about the same shape as this time last year.  Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.....

20/08/2009 at 10:59
PtB - London Tri Bike and run courses were rather short, he still did well but not a 35 min 10km was more 37-38 if the course was correct.

2 miles for me this evening

slowly does it :¬)
20/08/2009 at 11:19
Gobi wrote (see)
PtB - London Tri Bike and run courses were rather short, he still did well but not a 35 min 10km was more 37-38 if the course was correct. 2 miles for me this evening slowly does it :¬)

I'm sure I've said it before but it really annoys me that they can't measure a course correctly!

I've replied DOT,

hope bench visit is swift Brian. Brid this year? 

Still doing a bit of cycling, bit of running and bit of swimming. and tonight playing 5s for the first time in about 2.5 years, I think I'm going to hurt tomorrow!

(and sat, sun, mon, etc etc) 

20/08/2009 at 11:35

Brian - sorry to see you benched.  At least you can watch Ashley Giles' mates try and win the Ashes.  I see the Sherminator gets the lucky decisions already that Bopara never gets.

Hilly once did a 15 min 5k at the end of a triathlon.  Are any of the courses measured properly?  Maybe if someone invented a £2000 measuring wheel with a carbon fibre rim they'd all be rushing to buy one...;-)

What a great great run from Jenny Meadows yesterday, showing they don't hand out medals at 500m when she was 7th.  Too many of them had the `go out hard and hang on' approach, which unless you have the class to do so will end in tears and defeat.  Well done her for running her own race and not someone else's.  Even pacing as well - have we ever discussed that on here...

Njord -varied training.

Paula Radcliffe - wonder if she'll turn up at a big money marathon in the autumn?

20/08/2009 at 11:39

Nice training guys.

Brian - hope the injury is a short one.


If you were as good as Paula would you prefer running for a possible medal in a championship or going out and winning a big city marathon with a nice pot of money at the end?

20/08/2009 at 12:07

BR - agree on the women's 800m. Great run by Meadows, I said to my gf at HW that I thought Meadows would get a medal. I did get slightly annoyed listening to Okoro's interview where she basically said she wanted to go out hard to give herself a chance, "that's how the South African ran 1:55". Ignoring the fact that she's nowhere near in shape to run 1:55, seemingly not having any regard to what she's actually capable of. That's like me being in 2:30 marathon shape and going through HW in 70 mins on the off chance that somehow I might hang on for a 2:20.

Hilly - I was contemplating that question already. I'm sure a lot of people would say the medal, but if it ever actually happened to one of us the result might be a bit different!

Njord - some awesome stuff in there. Good to see the variation, keeping it interesting.

Anyway, did an hour run yesterday and a bike ride in the evening, then an hour run this morning. Really enjoyed the runs, early morning through woods, fields etc. in the sunshine. National Triathlon relays on Saturday and then a big session on Sunday - something like 2hr bike, 1hr run, 2hr bike, 30min run. Should be interesting....

20/08/2009 at 12:23
Perhaps I'm a gullible twit, but I think Radcliffe's decision makes sense.  She's missed a lot of training through injury and surgery.  She knows how her legs feel after c MP half marathon and knows how she felt during the race - if she was working even semi-hard then she knows she's not in decent shape.  Given her calibre it's not worth running a WC marathon where she's going to finish 10th or something.  And sadly for her (given what a lot of her detractors say) another 3 months will be enough to get in shape for NY.  Final thought is that she's doomed either way: she doesn't run and she gets bashed in the meeja for that; does run and doesn't win and she'll get bashed in the meeja for that.  Hello rock, hello hard place.
Cheerful Dave    pirate
20/08/2009 at 12:26

Padams, re Radcliffe, I guess when it's your livelihood and you haven't had any races for a long time the lure of the paycheck must be strong.  I'm sure her decision to pull out would have considered the worst case scenario of running, her old injury flaring up because she hasn't fully recovered, not winning and then missing the autumn marathons as well. 

Okoro's interview was just strange as you say.

Edited: 20/08/2009 at 12:30
20/08/2009 at 12:53
Probably a bit naive, but I'd not thought of the money as being a major factor in Paula deciding on whether to run. But, presumably she could ask for an increased appearance money as the current world champion? She knows from last year what it's like to come back a bit too soon, and having battled round there, I don't think she has much to prove in terms of commitment.
20/08/2009 at 12:53

MtR - cheers for the advice RE endurance typey training.  I've been trying for sure - managed a slow 16 mile run last weds and 13 miles last night which seemed every bit as hard as the hill intervals the night before!!

 I think the endurance should come but i do find it harder to run at a quicker pace if i don't set aside some time in the week to go a fair bit quicker than 6.30 pace!!  a couple of 'easy' days after today and then a half marathon race type effort on sunday.  gonna try and crack 1.20 for it if i can...

20/08/2009 at 13:52

WTGY/BR/Hilly, Cheers.

BR/TR, Oh joy! Good session for the lads. Lets rack up 350+ and then watch the aussies
dance. Laddo used his new bat last sat, scored 34 no for the 2nd team, but not sure he's too happy
with it. Can see another visit to the bat shop coming.

Hilly, Medal for me every time.

Padams, Totally agree with you about Okoro. Tactics were definitely dodgy

18th Oct, now theres a date imprinted in my brain.
1. Brid - done it last 2 years and really enjoyed it both times.
2. Richmond Castle 10k - Friend of mine is from Richmond and suggested we did the 10k as s
'trip' run.
3. Bradford City 10 mile - New run and forerunner to a selection of runs staged in Bradford City Centre
next year. The runs will be looping round the 5 main parks in Bfd (signifying the 5 olympic rings),
and there will be 5, 10, 15, 20 mile races available, as well as a marathon, and a relay.
I have entered the Richmond Castle 10k, but if it doesn't turn out to be the social that was planned,
may look at the other 2.
Fancy the Bradford marathon next October, as this will be tough and hasn't been staged for 20-odd years!

Wetherby 10k is looking decidedly dodgy now.

20/08/2009 at 16:32

Brian - Pah! the impetus of having a fish and chip bet on could be the difference between me putting in a decent time or a crap one. I'm actually going to print off an entry form and even send it off, rather than say I'm doing a race without entering

Oh yeah any northerners doing the 6 stage relays in leeds end of sept? 

20/08/2009 at 16:49

GR: The thing is you're burning sugar at 6:00mm pace at the moment. This is fine when you're running 25 miles a week (4-5 runs of 4-6 miles), and for 5k and 10k work. It's what i call fit-bloke running - pretty fast but all at a surprisingly high HR I'd wager.

But for a marathon you need to be burning a higher percentage of fat at MP. Trust that you have the raw speed and run at MP or slower except when racing. I think that if you do this for 6 months you will not only bag a sub-3 marathon but be faster when you reintroduce speedwork.

You could also look into HR monitoring and read the Hadd document. There are a fair number of people here who are better equipped than me to offer advice. Or read Lydiard.

On a personal level, I'm following my own advice, with a 6 month training programme all designed to build aerobic capacity - based on Lydiard (but not as Lydiard-based as TT). All the races are planned as my effort sessions in the autumn rather than PB attempts. (Still hope to get a couple). Then in January I'll start a more conventional 12 week marathon plan for a sub-2:45 attempt at London.

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