Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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11/11/2012 at 17:34

Sounds like, er, fun, Philpub. Did you get a prize for 3rd V40?

Back at the sharper end for me at XC today - 3rd. Men and women start off together in this league, but men do two laps and women just one, so technically 3rd overall . To be fair some of the faster ladies didn't show up. Sarah Harris was notably absent. I need to find the results somewhere to compare my position with the Uni girls who beat me last time. Legs were way more trashed today. 

I have stupidly signed up for a half in 4 weeks time, so I need to get back into the swing of things post holiday. 43 miles this week, but Monday and Tuesday were lost to hols and lurgy. Next week will be better!

11/11/2012 at 17:41

Consistent running, indeed, Phil (I can't judge bike times, I'm afraid).  Hope you got some pretty bling for your V40 efforts!

Nice XC-ing, Speedy.  There's no way I could have contemplated going fast again today, so hats off to you.

Hi, CL.  Long-ish time no see!

Edit: I spy with my little eye Athens marathon results on PO10.  Happy birthday, indeed, Dids

Edited: 11/11/2012 at 17:47
11/11/2012 at 18:42

CC2 - Cracking podium on a double XC weekend.

It's a good job I do this multi-sporting for the love of it.  An intriguing purse for my efforts; the choice between money-off another event from the organisers, to the value of a little over half the entrance fee I paid for this one, OR hard cash to the value of somewhat less than half of the entrance fee.  It's a dilemma, and no mistake.

Edited: 11/11/2012 at 18:44
11/11/2012 at 20:07


CC2 - nice one

PP - likewise, great performance

TR - 12 miles, anyone would;ve thought you were putting in pre marathon training

Jools - solid 15

Welll what an interesting event, lol Nice 1 minute silence at the start then everyone went off but it there was a right turn instead of a left turn and runners started doing what should;ve been the last lap around to the finishing section. Then some runners went left and some went right and carnage ensued Basically people stopped running and the race was void - culimation of cock ups. Everyone back to the start to go again.....

This time no hitches/directions sorted and off we went.... and I can't decide whether running 1 1/2k flat out already helped or hindered. Anyway 20th position in a new pb of 36.17 so I'm pleased with that. Never felt fantastic but indicative of general improvements that I was able to knock out a decent time on a course which included lots of tight turns and some off road sections.

The less said about the football the better

11/11/2012 at 20:41

I read about that RS78. Apparently a member of the public cycled onto the course just after the start and they were wearing high viz so some of the front runners mistook them for lead bike and followed. All my NE friends seem to have run well despite/because of that though!


11/11/2012 at 20:54

Well run Dids

PP - impressive stuff, 2:51 at the NADbuster is decent. Hope your legs dont hurt too much in the next few days.

RS - sounds like the warm up helped you, thats pretty quick. I usually look at your times and reckon I could keep up, but not sure I could run that fast. I'm more trying to get in some pre training for the pre marathon training. I need some consistent miles in the bank by the end of Feb, ready for the marathon training to start. 

11/11/2012 at 22:14
Had a decent run. 2.58. Came 88th out of 6,000+
Think the hill may have added 4-5 mins, warm and sunny but there was a nice breeze behind.
3rd in my age category. What a joy moving up is.

Really pleased I've done Athens. Doesn't compare to , say, London but its got history on its side and there can't be many tougher big city marathons.
11/11/2012 at 22:31
Ps, even though it was quite warm (about 19-20 deg C at the end) and i am not acclimatised to anything more than 8-9 deg, I went for a no drink, no carb approach - apart from the Gatorade I drank over the first couple of miles.
I was washing my arms and neck at every water stop to stay cool.
Didn't bother carbo loading in advance either - just brekkie and the Gatorade at the start.

I know I'm a sceptical old duffer, but I get more convinced with every race of the myth about drinking and carbs etc.

The Expo was absolutely rammed with stalls selling all manner of gels and magic potions. A huge industry built on absolute codswallop.

I had a banana, souvlaki and loads of beer afterwards. Guess what? I feel great.
11/11/2012 at 23:18

well done Dids, sub3 on a tough course as a V50. See you at the GFA start in April. You can hold my gels for me !

12/11/2012 at 07:54

Great stuff LD and Happy Birthday. You can indeed hold TR's gels while he sets up your Garmin for you!!

Nice XCing from CC2 (nice podium!), joolska, CL and JH1.

Great result for Phil too - you've got to be pleased with that I'd have thought. Sounded like a very well-judged effort, well done!

Great PB from RS too, and yes I also read about the problem at the start where the leaders followed some random bloke with a high vis on. Quite funny really!!

Nice longr effort from TR too.

XC for me yesterday. It was 'interesting', mainly due to the fact that I was a bit p!ssed the night before! Went for a post-Mara night out with a few folk (including BR/Hilly) - a few too many beers drank and a lovely meal. I felt rather delicate in the morning but wanted to run for the team thing. I ended up doing ok actually - a pretty hilly 6 mile route in about 39 mins, but there was a beast of a long climb that we had to run up 4 times, so I'm happy with how I ran. I felt a LOT better for it afterwards too!

12/11/2012 at 08:05

PP - good effort, 2:51 is a solid time. I can't remember my bike time from when I did it, but I think it was quite similar to yours. I came 2nd when I did it and I think the prize was only slightly less than the entry fee! I'm thinking of doing the spring version - fancy another go? How are the legs today?

Speaking of prizes, the prize I got for winning the HM last weekend (about 1,000 entrants) was just a strange trophy.

Nice XCing JH, CC2, LS and CL!

RS - that sounds like a right cock-up! Well done for a PB after that!

LD - well done on a sub 3 on a tough course. Agree re. some of the dodgy science!

XC for me on Saturday. Quite pleased as I placed a bit higher than last time in this league (10th vs. 15th last time), probably because the course suited me a bit better (not much mud!). Really had to push the last 400m as there was a few guys right on my shoulder - held them all off but must have got close to max HR!

Also did a relatively hard turbo session that morning, then tri club annual dinner in the evening. Got to bed around 2:30am but managed to get up for the usual 8am 3 hour ride with the usual crowd.

Edited: 12/11/2012 at 08:51
Cheerful Dave    pirate
12/11/2012 at 09:07
I had a bad day at the office (well, Boxhill) yesterday, just couldn't get going. The first run felt comfortable enough, PP was in sight for the first half of it, but I was losing ground on the guy in front up the hill which doesn't usually happen.  I went to check the time going in to transition to find my watch hadn't started (gloves, eh?) so I was going blind time-wise.  It turns out it was around 3 minutes down on what I normally do.  The bike seemed OK at first but on the hill I was managing 2mph less than I normally do on there.  I was also getting passed by more than usual too.  That said the bike split was a time I'd have been happy with a few years ago.  The second run started pretty well and I passed a few who looked like they were running well as well as some who were obviously cyclists rather than runners, shall we say.  All was well until I reached Mickleham for the last time, at which point the wheels fell off rather drastically and I was struggling to put one foot in front of the other up the hill.  It was strange because the engine was still going well but my legs just didn't want to know.  If I'd pushed too hard earlier on I'd have accepted it, but I never felt I was overdoing things and I was confident of a decent last run.  I ended up finishing in the slowest time I've ever done, in maybe the best conditions (apart from traffic on the course, which was far worse on a sunday than it ever was on the usual Saturday race.

Good to catch up with PP though, great result mate.
12/11/2012 at 09:30

Morning all,

Lots of XCing going on over the weekend, well done Speedy (x2!), LS,  JoolskaCLJH and Padams. Makes me think I should do a bit too, our club isn't particularly pro XC racing, odd as we run off road a lot, but then again the club isn't massively competative. The ladies usually put out a decent team for the Hants winter XC series, but the guys struggle. I haven';t done any yet as they are generally on a Saturday (conflict often with a Sunday race) and quite spread out around the county. Planning to do the county champs in Jan though.

CW - Good call to do the long run a day early!

TR - that garage session must have left quite a puddle...

SL - great 400s, I'll be looking to do a few sets (no where never as fast) like that in the run up to the 10k I'm doing in December

PP - Sounded like a good race, congrats

CD - Sounded like a bit of a of those days

RS - Interesting race start, well done a new PB!

Dids - Cracking running in Athens, top marks for the sub-3.

I've been having similar thoughts about race nutrition and drinking lately. I'm in the middle of reading Noakes new book on hydration which basically says drink to thirst only and don't bother with sports drinks, your body is remarkably good at managing itself in a short term dehydrated state. There's a lot of (practical) research work that says that the fastest runners in a race are generally the most dehydrated and lose the most weight by the finish. I've also been experimenting with adjusting my diet to reduce the amount of carbs I eat in general and replacing it with more fats and protein (Noakes again!), so far this seems to be working well, my weight is very stable and and don't get sudden hunger cravings like I used to.

Yesterday was our club's annual Children in Need run where we do laps (about 2.3ml) around one of the forest enclosures, it runs all day and you just do as much as you like (and donate/collect sponsorship). I started very early doors at 7am to get a decent run in before our rememberence service at 10am. Did 16ml av 6:39/ml (inc 6 laps), and really pushed on the hills (not huge, but decent enough for the New Forest!).

In light of Dids comments I did the whole run on Sunday on 2 dessert spoons of full fat rasberry yoghurt , a small apple and a handful of nuts, didn't feel the need to take any gels on the run which I'm intrigued about, so I'm going to try the method out a bit more and see if it works in general...

12/11/2012 at 11:07

Dids - Great stuff!  As it happens I think I ended up overdoing my carb load this weekend.  Not because of any gullibility about the myth (I'm kind of with you myself on that) but because (a) I like eating and it seemed like a good excuse to stuff my face for a couple of days and (b) my hosts on Saturday night made fresh bread that was warm on Sunday morning, so I had two badly hacked (i.e. extra thick) slices in addition to my usual porridge.  Couldn't help myself.  Still felt a bit bloated on the start line!  I do think for VLM next year it will be a modest carb load followed by little-and-often swigs of water and Lucozade on the course, so no need to carry anything.

RS78 - I also heard about the race restart.  Weird!  Great run from you.

LS21 - XC is an afternoon race, therefore night-before drinking is pretty much obligatory isn't it? 

Cheers all for the comments on the race.  My quads feel pretty good today, but the calves are a bit mashed. No worse than after the XC/Cabbage Patch double, but likely to be enough of an excuse to skip track tomorrow in favour of something more leisurely.

12/11/2012 at 12:00

A good wekends efforts from PAdams there

Bilmey CD that wasnt a typical CD Ballbuster performance, you must be over the hill nowadays ! 

AL-P - I've run 20M+ fuelled by fresh air in training on no breakfast, but I wouldnt do it in a marathon.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
12/11/2012 at 12:06

That's the worry TR - I was still 3rd in 45-49 so maybe there's an element of the inevitable slowing with age.  OTOH the guy in 2nd is someone I meet there every year and have beaten every time.

12/11/2012 at 12:07

CD - I saw your time and wondered what had happened. Sounds like something going on there - 3 mins on the first run is a huge difference. Maybe a virus, tired etc?

Was looking at our XC results this morning and noticed that of the first 16 finishers, I was the oldest by 6 years! 7 of the first 8 were U23s (3 of them were U20s). What's going on there? I've never felt so old at a race. It's weird because at road races I tend to find I'm about average age amongst the faster runners, or maybe even a bit younger than average.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
12/11/2012 at 12:14

Could be one of those padams, I guess I'll find out in due course.  I have nothing major lined up for a while, with the possible exception of the Epsom 10, so a good chance for a break and a decent build-up to the spring and VLM.

We've moved up a division in the county XC league this year and it's noticable how much younger div 2 is compared with div 3, far fewer vets.  I would imagine that moving up to div 1 has a similar step back to the cradle.  Now you know how the rest of us feel when we're running with the likes of you youngsters

12/11/2012 at 12:16

Epic race there PP, glad it went well for you. Sorry it was a less satisfactory outcome for you this time, CD.

Well XC-d CL, JH1, LS21, Padams and CC2 (again!)

Good long run there Jools and yours was very quick for off-road, Al_P.

Noakes doesn't believe in the sports drink industry, it's true, as 99% of the stuff is drunk unnecessarily (like by the overweight audience at a panto I went to once, seemed to be the only drink they sold...) -- but at the same time he does believe in avoiding hypoglycaemia late in long races by ingesting some carbohydrate, and similarly he recommends getting some in at the very start of a long race to pre-empt that. I only ever use gels in the odd training run where I want to rehearse race conditions; otherwise I don't eat or drink in long runs these days. But for sure on race day I will have a few gels, especially as the race wears on. And I have had the odd weak and wobbly training run where I've realised I'd not eaten many carbs for a day or two before. Keeping cool is probably more important than keeping hydrated, and I do a lot of wetting my head in warm races.

Had a go at the beep/bleep test yesterday to entertain the kids as they had been doing it at school; my calves were a bit stiff already from training, but I was still a bit disappointed to conk out at about 7 shuttles of level 12 (VO2max ~55 ml/kg/min, should be up in the 60s for me really, or so I'd like to believe). Interesting to try it though.

12/11/2012 at 13:04

There's been a lot going on since I was last on here!! Well done and good performances in XC and on the road, was a nice day for it yeasterday.

So, think maybe I've confused people with my training a little. I did get a very nice 25 done yesterday, but it was very very easy paced with lots of stopping. It was a recce for a race my better half is doing and requires a bit of Navigation, so I tagged along to keep company, help etc. So not really part of my training. Pretty much all off road, and like I said, not run at any real pace.

By saying I was stepping off the gas, I guess I meant by not doing any really hard effort running, intervals/racing. The runs I did do although were long, were done at a pace that was comfortable and still left me feeling freshish the day after.

TR - Last goal race was Oxford HM last month, next A race would be a half in Feb, then Hamburg mara in April. Nothing really planned other than a 5 and 10k between now and then which wont be too serious.

CW - I love the bleep test! Havent done one in a while, its good fun in a group! 

Edited: 12/11/2012 at 13:07
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