Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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10/12/2012 at 22:00

Ah thanks for the welcome guys  . If someone had told me 3yrs ago that I'd get down to 3:15 for a marathon, I’d still be laughing to this day! So now you say 30min quicker...?? Well I'm always up for a challenge and proving people wrong but realistically I think I need to aim for your current PB CC2 - Speedy Goth of 3:08, or 3:07 which is currently our ladies club record. 

I recently took a peek at a sub 3 training program and it looked like a lot of mileage! I'm not a big fan of long runs and I try to get as much speed endurance as I can from shorter speed work, middle distance races, turbo training & swimming.

I've just finished a very long road running Grand Prix season where we our fabulous bunch of ladies have been striving to win the ladies team prize so I'm doing a lot of resting at the moment and enjoying the break before I tackle a training program, and the long mileage which it looks like I can't avoid! Eeeek!

11/12/2012 at 11:40
Good set of 8 x 800M reps off 1 min recoveries done today. Came out at 2.55, 2.55, 2.51, 2.49, 2.49, 2.54, 2.51 and 2.55. Pretty happy with them. Starting to feel really strong in my interval sessions.
11/12/2012 at 14:08

About time i got back into this thread i think if it means taking 30 mins off my marathon time!

Having cracked sub 3 at MK this year I am unable to take up a place at VLM 13 due to getting married in the spring. Still undecided on whether or not to go for an Autumn marathon or hold off until VLM 14, I don't really fancy the long training in the summer & missing out on the summer races as a result.

Focusing on the Wokingham half at the moment & hopefully breaking the 80 minute barrier. I ran the Maidenhead half in September and was going well but pace dipped a little between miles 10-12 & came up just short in 80:21. Hoping a bit more lactate threshold work & a couple of extra miles on the midweek longish runs will make the difference

Cheerful Dave    pirate
11/12/2012 at 14:38

"I am unable to take up a place at VLM 13 due to getting married in the spring" - weddings are on saturdays, VLM is on a sunday, what's the problem?

You can do the summer races and an autumn marathon, either fit the races into your schedule or pick a late autumn one such as Luton.

11/12/2012 at 14:38

CaroT - welcome!

OldNo7 - why not focus on the half distance as a target using park runs and 10ks as workouts and then seeing where you are at the end of spring. You might have changed your mind by then and want to do longer stuff. There's enough autumn marathons about that you could enter later on without forcing the issue too much.

A.W - yeah I used to do tuesday track and sometimes the 10m tuesday burn up from YMCA. Kabir's thursday roller coster session is meant to be good too. Think he switches back to middle distance reps in march. I could never make it to the thursday session. Are you doing the Xmas party in Muswell Hill on sat?

TR - a ton!!!!

15 mins swim followed by 30 mins aqua jogging. Foolishly giving myself a chance of xc on sat but you never know. Swim tomorrow then an easy run thurs morning and see how it responds to that run. If that goes well another run in London friday and then make a decision. If it wasn't the local race I wouldn't bother trying to make it.

11/12/2012 at 14:41

5 mile "Tempo" run today as part of an 8 / 9 miler, felt good being out in that cold weather.

I certainly havent won many races, but as far as I'm concerned, if you are going to the effort of winning a race, then the least they can do is put the tape out for you!

Tape shot........



Edited: 11/12/2012 at 14:42
11/12/2012 at 15:08

Hello everybody,

It's been ages since I last posted and having had a scan over the last few weeks it looks like I've missed a decent discussion on training, book reviews, a few new people joining (welcome!) and some Bosch love.  Very few mentions of cycling, turbos and what aero bars are the tastiest so people must be thinking about running at the moment and some good racing performances have been achieved.

Frustrating month or two for me, struggled for ages with a cold/bug that meant I couldn't do any harder training then I turned my ankle running fast downhill in the dark but I've been on holiday the last 2 weeks and have managed to get more running in, last week being particularly good (82M).  Highlight though was going up to Yorkshire and finding one of the pubs that Wardi talks about where a pint was £1.80 and that was the expensive stuff!!  I had 5 pints and still had enough change from a tenner to treat Mrs LJ to half a lemonade.


11/12/2012 at 15:15

Afternoon all.

Padams - I love Prague, though more for the food and beer than anything else. The idea of running on cobbles doesn't appeal, though with Mrs TT being from Czech, the Prague Marathon, generally, does. I understand very little of it is actually on the cobbles. Huge hill up to the castle though!

Sounds like a good pre-Christmas/post-drinkie workout Wardi.

Sounds like continued (re) improvement Jools. Nice one.

Nice repping A.W.

After last week's vom bug (courtesy of Jr #2) I am getting back into it. Done a benchmark run yesterday which put me at 7s per mile outside of where I was 8 weeks out from Berlin, which is considerably better than I expected. That gives me 19 weeks to find 19-21s per mile, which seems more than reasonable to me given current fitness vs previous fitness!

SL - early thoughts re: Bramley 20m?

Anybody doing the Spitfire 20m at the start of March?

11/12/2012 at 15:54
Also will be appearing at Wokingham as my VLM warm up race.
Edited: 11/12/2012 at 15:57
11/12/2012 at 16:05

Getting back to normality after a slightly manic couple of weeks hols/work travel back to back, nice to be home  Had a bit of a read back and it took a while, there's lots going on! Well done to CC for the sub 90 Turkey Trot, glad to hear your neck is better Jools (going back a bit I know!), nice 800s session AW, love the Dids vs Biggs Strava battle and the Dids vs TT training and adaptation discussion and welcome to CaroT! Incidentally my marathon time improved from 2:55 to 2:43 between 2011 and 2012 which co-incided with joining this marvellous running institution 

Had a good run at the Christchurch Xmas 10k on Sunday, wasn't sure what sort of shape I'd be in after the some-what inconsistent couple of weeks leading up. Did a bit of a estimate of what to expect using predicted 10k times from the Mcmillian calculator based on my recent 5k/HM times. I weighed it towards the 5k-based time prediction, as the calculator is highly optimistic for me at shorter distances (definitely an endurance specialist) and came out with a predicted 10k time of 34:58, so I set the target pace at 5:35/ml. I started a bit too fast (5:27), slowed up to target pace (5:35) and then slowed down & steadied the pace (5:40/5:43/5:40/5:41) and managed a final blast at the end to finish in 34:59. I came round the last corner tot he finish straight with the clock on 34:50 and about 50-60m to go, so belted it to squeeze under 35mins...Very please with a PB by 41sec and a free Christmas pudding to boot. 

11/12/2012 at 16:12

Very nice Al_P. Well done.

postie postie - I'm also doing Wokingham, but, unusually for me (i.e. never done it before) I'm intending to taper up for it a little. I hope it means I will stay focused for the next 9 weeks, but at the very least it should see me 10 weeks out from VLM in much better shape than I was 8 weeks out from Berlin.

11/12/2012 at 16:13

Glad the bugs cleared up and your getting back to normal running ZaTTu.

Another one here for Wokingham, I'm also doing the Spitfire 20.

RS78 - Hope the planned runs go ok. I've heard Kabir's roller coaster session is a good one, been meaning to get to it and try it out. Unfortunately I've had plans for some time on Saturday evening which means I'm not going to make the xmas party, its a pity as I would have liked to have gone. I will definitely do the xc Saturday pm.

11/12/2012 at 16:16

Great run and PB Al_P, a nice milestone to dip under the 35 min barrier too!!

11/12/2012 at 16:31

Putting some serious thought to VLM2013 now and the plan is starting to come together. I'm intending on doing approximately the same Canova style approach as TT, but less fast and lower miles. My plan is to experiment with bench-marking the suitable intensity and duration of the workouts over the next couple of weeks and the do a 'fundamental phase' of 10k/HM focused work up to the Wokingham half before moving on to the marathon specific workouts up to London. Tentative plan is to shoot for a 2:3x (around 6min/ml) this time, which I think is realistic.

However managed to balls-up today's run because;

  • (a) I thought I could do a hard session 2 days after a hard 10k effort, silly idea
  • (b) I picked a nasty workout to try - 3x5000m 
  • (c) mucked up my 5k route planning  
  • (d) it's still very icy at lunchtime today so traction was hit and miss
  • (e) did my recovery run yesterday in Merrell barefoot shoes too quickly (hard on calves)
All in all, I did the first 5k in 18:33, got sore calves (plus the other reasons listed) and decided to just do a steady run with a few faster bits for the rest, total of 9.6ml @ 6:30/ml. Planning an easy run tomorrow and then a session on Thursday or Friday depending on how I feel... 
11/12/2012 at 16:39

TT.. good to hear you are in decent health again.   

CC2.. congrats on that sub 90, nice one!

Al P.. a well earned pudding there!  Nice PB.

LJ.. well done on finding a Sam Smith's emporium, most of their pubs don't have any of the brewery's branding out front!  Mind you, 5 pints to your wife's half a lemonade seems a bit disproportionate!  Nice to see you are upping the mileage again.

AW.. good set of consistent reps done & dusted.

Old No.7.. back in 2008 I postponed my honeymoon by a few days so I could do a local flat 10k.  In fairness Mrs Wardi did it as well!

Welcome to CaroT, good to see another girlie on here.

Enjoyed the run on Sunday, 12m circum-navgating Wetherby as part of a social club run.  Plenty of mud & hills but a sunny if breezy day helped the enjoyment factor.  Ran it about 3 mins quicker than last year & felt more comfortable so took a bit of encouragement from it.  Post race soup, pie & beer afterwards.

5.2m last night - did this as a loop straight from work to let the traffic die down, tends to be manic at this time of year.  4.1m this morning & about 7m with the club tonight. 

Dids.. I should be at the York Parkrun again on Saturday to witness your latest Strava adventures.  There are a couple of V50's who might trouble you - one from Leeds & one from Hull but they only show up once in a blue moon so you might get the glory!

11/12/2012 at 16:58

Wardi I wouldn't get away with that. The future Mrs No7 does a little running occasionally & I am still encouraging her to commit a bit more time to it, though the cold snap has put her off again.

RS78 I certainly won't be making any decisions just yet, just concentrating on Wokingham for now & post honeymoon I will have a think about my aims for the rest of the year. I am more suited to the endurance side of things so i am quite tempted to spend the summer doing a couple of sessions a week on the track & seeing if i can improve my weaker areas.

11/12/2012 at 18:08

CaroT - you had best learn to like long runs and miles then.

Al_P - nice one on the 10k, enjoy the VLM plans.

LJ - nice to see you back to it

RS78 - over the ton indeed, hoping to get over 150 but wont be commuting over Christmas, so maybe a minimum of 150 should be the target.

11/12/2012 at 18:30
Stephen - could you not have worn a smaller pair of shorts for your glory moment?

CaroT - Don't know why I said you'd improve by 30 mins on the sub-3. I effectively improved 18 mins when I started on these forums. Anyway 10-20 mins or something. Once we get you reading Hadd and other good stuff, you'll soon be running high mileage AND ENJOYING IT!

Al_P - canova AND barefoot running? Interesting how we fall into two tribes. In the blue corner are the scientists with their Noakes books and heart rate monitors and hard evidence, and in the Red are the conspiracy theorists doing the Aussie carbo load in their compression socks.

Anyway, in a bad mood - my trip to Glasgow was cancelled as I was on my way to the station. So bang goes the neeps and tatties and jocks scrapping on the pavement outside and instead it'll be left over chicken served by Lady D, moaning about the badly applied hair highlights she's just had done.
11/12/2012 at 21:28

Getting very jealous of all those winning tapes. (You're not even doing my tragi-heroic sprint through the finish while waving your arms in the air for a win ST, much too calm and collected :- )

AW  -- nice reps -- is that the magic Yasso formula that some used to predict marathon times? I did 8x800m last week, but significantly slower.

AlP -- very well done on the landmark 34:xx. I have to warn you though, I've been finding sub-2:40 an impossible struggle so far, on a slightly quicker 10K PB (34:12). But then with the notable exception of the GER, I seem to be age-plateauing overall anyway. We'll see this time...

Welcome CaroT!

11/12/2012 at 21:32
Wardi - that's some good consistent mileage. I'll be up York way for New Year, but not over a Saturday which is a shame as I could have popped along to the Parkrun if we were

LJ - sounds like you're getting in some good distance, my last two weeks have been 33 & 35 miles respectively, time to start building back up now...

TT - Be interested to know what does your bench mark run consists of.... Btw after much reading and spreadsheet digestion I think I'm getting my head around the Canova training materials

Dids - Haha I'm firmly in the blue corner then (still not got the hang of heart rate yet though...), definitely the science & engineering type, I'm generally very broad minded and open to new ideas (although you could substitute that for 'young and foolish' if you prefer!). Suppose I'm the type of person who wants to know why we do things the way we do, instead of just doing it... An interesting comparison to me is my sister-in-law (has a 2:50 marathon PB), who does a lot of her running on feel and uses homeopathic medical practices. We've clashed on training styles in the past, but she's also helped me out hugely when I've got injured on a few occasions and we share similar views on running shoes & diet. It's a bit ying and yang in the end I suppose, you need a bit of both approaches to get a good balance IMO

Sounds like there's going to be a strong forum turn out at Wokingham then, should be a good race! I'm also planning to do Bramley 20 (Mara training run), Eastleigh 10k, Stubbington 10k, maybe the Chichester Priory 10k and either the Salisbury 10 or Mad March 20 (same weekend, not decided yet). Also might run the John Austin half, which is a local off road race for charity in the New Forest, can second last year so tempted to see if I can get the win this time around....

And on a longer term note for 2013, I've entered the Frankfurt marathon in October.
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