Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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Cheerful Dave    pirate
26/12/2012 at 12:25
I feel like a lightweight, only having managed 10 this morning. Parkrun yesterday though, in the mud and pouring rain. One of those races where the biggest injury risk is trench foot.
26/12/2012 at 12:46

Jools - I had a bowl of cereal after my run ! My running legs are starting to come back already, they dont moan after 8M any more.

CD - get back out there for 3 more !

26/12/2012 at 16:12
Leyland 10k this morning. 36.30 ish. That's a whopping 2 mins outside a pb, but was happy enough with the time.

Got Seb Coe's book for Christmas. Interesting reading about his dad as a coach. He dispensed with conventional wisdom, and looked at things afresh from a scientific point of view. Coe thought he had a big advantage with not having a running background and, therefore, not influenced by dogma and old wives tales.

Sounds like all the middle distance runners were doing lots of miles in them days (which does seem a bit weird, but sounds like other runners were blindly into Lydiard) and Peter Coe concentrated on getting Seb strong and fast. Loads of hills and loads of 400 and 800m reps, and not much recovery in between.

Anyway, so far in the book at least, it doesn't go into a lot of detail on coaching methods, but you get the impression that whilst Peter Coe went to great lengths to understand the science behind it all, the training Seb did may have been pretty basic eg, 400 and 800 reps, hills. Often. (To almost quote TR).

Still, it must not be forgotten that despite Seb talking his dad up, had Ovett snatched the 1500m in 76, then how would history judge Peter now?
26/12/2012 at 18:27
You know what, whoever organises Parkruns should be put in charge of organising every race in this country.

Did that Leyland 10k, and well organised though it was there's no results out 10 hours later. No presentation afterwards.... just hours of silence. Chipped time too, so why is it not automatically fed into a computer and uploaded within minutes.

Contrast that with the superb efficiency of a parkrun, which is all done for free. I reckon they should do monthly 10ks and three monthly half marathons and close the rest of the shoddy amateurs down.

Yours deeply frustrated,
Victor Meldrew
26/12/2012 at 18:58

Finding the updates on here depressing right now. As my man flu has become all consuming. So I am trying to force out the retched germs with Christmas spirit! Not run for over a week and feels linke months since I as much as jogged. Hoping to be at least jogging again by the New Year. 

Bought a copy of  Bounce (saw it recommended on here I think) Looking forward to reading that tonight with a large glass of medicine!

26/12/2012 at 23:11

Dids - Interestingly enough (or not !), Brett Sutton said that because Chrissie Wellington hadnt come from a Tri background with lots of years in the game, he was able to give her training sessions, paces and race times that she simply accepted (and achieved) as she knew no better (or how fast they were).

27/12/2012 at 08:30

Dids - I was at Worden Park too, finishing in about 36:17 on my watch although the finish-line clock was showing 37:01.  The start was ballsed up a bit (mats in the wrong place), and the finish-line clock was showing zero when we passed it the first time.  I'm not convinced the organisers know who ran what time. 

Sorry I didn't see you, but I was busy chatting with my running twin - a guy from Swansea AC whose club has the same colours as the mighty Wirral AC.  I've only met him twice, but on those occasions he finished 30 seconds behind me over 10K (yesterday) and ~60 seconds behind me over 10 miles (Welsh Castles Relay).  Most bizarrely, he was born 24 hours after me.  Don't know much else about him, but I'm sure he's a top bloke with great taste in beer, women, music etc...

Edited: 27/12/2012 at 08:34
27/12/2012 at 09:21
Durr! You were in the blue Hellas vest (from Athens marathon presumably). I assumed we had a Greek international running...
27/12/2012 at 10:54

Just back at work after the 5 day break. Not been online for those 5 days, so lots of catching up to do, but sounds like marathon training is starting to build nicely.

LD - well done in the 10k. I always wonder about the delay in results when it's chip-timed too - I've been to races where you could look up your result on a screen as soon as you cross the line, and other where it takes several days.

TB - I read that a few weeks ago after the recommendations on here. Very interesting stuff.

So I got my back-to-back long runs done last weekend. 20M on the Saturday with clubmates - mixture of terrain, so average pace was quite slow at 7:5x. My knee felt a bit sore on Sunday morning, but I wanted to get it done, so tried to just settle into an easy pace and tick the miles off. Legs felt fine apart from the sore knee and 7:15s felt very sustainable. Stuck to flatish tarmac, so I was able to keep the pace consistent (except for a few flooded bits where I was running through shin-high cold water!). Logistics meant that I ended up with 19M rather than 20M, but never mind (20 is just a random number anyway).

Monday I did a tough turbo session (3x20mins) and the legs weren't feeling too sharp. Then on Xmas Day I did 7M first thing, planning to make each mile faster than the last. Accidentally ran the first mile too fast (6:30) so was running quite quick by the end - 5:55 and 5:43 for the last 2M, but I felt really good for some reason.

No training yesterday - was at horse racing, managed to win a bit (nothing by Dan's standard though), and drink a lot.

27/12/2012 at 11:25


Padams - blimey thats some going

Jools - fair effort with that 13 there

Just over 7m with plenty of hills. First time I've felt confident running since the injury, pushing off on the leg properly on the hills. No stiffness during or after so just have to see how it is tomorrow but promising signs to go with the 5m on Xmas day.

27/12/2012 at 11:29

good stuff Padams, I wondered how your back to back long runs went

RS - nice to be on the comeback trail

2hrs at aerobic base camp on the turbo for me earlier.

27/12/2012 at 11:37

Forgot to say, interestingly my knee felt fine after the second long run, similar to at Barcelona last year when it was hurting for several weeks leaading up to the race (including on the day itself), but was fine afterwards.

RS - that's good news. Take it easy.

TR - I'm impressed with your 2 hour turbos. After 90 mins on Xmas Eve I wouldn't have wanted to continue!

27/12/2012 at 11:41


TR - how does that compare in effort to time on your feet in a run? I was thinking that if I do 30-35 mins swimming I feel like I've done about an hours run.

I might swim tomorrow morning actually, was starting to enjoy it (the point I mentioned where I usually tail off as I start running again post injury)

Edited: 27/12/2012 at 11:43
27/12/2012 at 11:56

Padams - sounds like you warmed your knee up nicely then and knocked any rust off. 3x20mins is a hard session though, I'm doing more steadily paced stuff at the mo. But I've been making a better effort on the bike this winter, last yr I did a couple of 60mins and a weekend 90min (or the odd 3hr ride outside when the weather allowed) most weeks, as I always used my Saturday big window for a long run from New Year ready for VLM. This winter I already have done a 2hr turbo or 3hrs outdoor ride every weekend since the NF 1/2IM. I might have to alternate Saturday long runs and rides/turbos from now until Spring though, as I'm not sure I'll get much Sunday time. I also need to phase training on a Sunday after VLM out apart from a short run as my U11 cricket team move up to U13 and I'm going to be manage the team, U13 A team matches are 10am start on Sundays and I need to be there early to get the boundary set-up, open the club house, sweep the wicket, put the wickets in etc 

RS - 2hr outdoors on the bike can be a pretty steady effort (I'm carp at getting my HR up on the bike), but 2hrs on the turbo is a better aerobic effort than a typical 2hr run effort for me, no junctions, roundabouts, or even free wheeling. As theres no impact, so I could do it every day if I felt the urge. Its good for the engine, but no good for my running legs (without any impact).

Edited: 27/12/2012 at 11:57
27/12/2012 at 17:21

Nice training, Padams - you squeezed a lot into a few days!

Sounds like things are improving for you, RS: a welcome Christmas present, I should think.

5M easy for me this morning.  Just on my way back to Brizzle now for a couple of days and then down to Devon for New Year (always assuming it hasn't dissolved by that point...)

27/12/2012 at 17:38

Hope you all enjoyed your Christmas.

Ran the Wheaton Aston 10k today. Pretty happy with a time of 38.03 by my watch, just a few seconds outside my best. Didn't feel great today so to come home with a time that close to my PB is ok by me. The course was pretty wet, running through some bits where the water came all the way over the feet.

28/12/2012 at 10:38

AW - 38min shape before you even get going shows sub3 potential

13M more at aerobic base camp for me.

28/12/2012 at 13:43
Njord - damn, that's annoying - i was very much on my lonesome, with a 20 min wait for Er Indoors. You were 12 secs ahead of me. There was a tall, awkward running guy who finished around you? I feared he may have been in my age group, hence my desire to see the bloody results!
28/12/2012 at 14:09

10M for me including club session of 4 x 1500m; pace on the 1500s nothing to write home about (6.20s-6.30/mile) but they were run on very soggy, muddy grass - even in spikes my footing wasn't great!  Didn't really need to do a session, but this was our Christmas/New Year social session, which is followed by soup, mince pies and mulled wine; for me that was the main draw

Edited: 28/12/2012 at 14:11
28/12/2012 at 18:14

Nice bit of festive 10k racing going on from Dids, Njord and AW 

Padams - that's a solid set of sessions for the Christmas week, good going (polar opposite to me!)

TR - Getting in lots of good aerobic base, nicely done

Jools - That's a tough sounding workout, XC-style intervals?  Bit like our club Xmas XC 'race' last weekend, less of a race and more of an excuse to dress up silly and have pies/wine at the end...

Not been a great week for me, took Christmas day off and then tried a easy 4M on Boxing Day. Left ITB felt generally ok on the run but when I stopped it was really giving me some jip  So it been another two days non-running since. Made up for it by doing 1.5k in the pool yesterday and another 1.25k + 25mins water running today. Also got in 15M on the MTB today (dropping off/picking up car from garage!). Off to lovely Yorkshire for New Year tomorrow. The IT band seems fine now, so might try another easy run tomorrow when we arrive.

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