Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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03/01/2013 at 17:15

Glad I was able to stir things up Jools!

Thank you all yet again for your opinions and advice. I do agree that there are many ways to train and I am just going to have to see what works for me. What's sauce for the goose may not be for the gander and all that. So lots to think about over the weekend...

TR
03/01/2013 at 17:54

how about we get ES to put himself (?) forward for a sub3 (NFR) science experiment where he does a week of LD's high mileage, a week of CDs 45mpw, a week of CWs 20M extravaganza followed by 6 days of bone depositing, a week of,,,,,,,etc.......... at the end of it he should be a nicely balanced average of all those on here, Simples !

or.................ES - I think you should start by working out how much time you are prepared to commit on a weekly basis, and then build a schedule from there.

been reading a bit on other threads about MP, HMP, intervals etc.....already in the campaign too. So I think that my planned 4 word book "left after right, often" might be doomed ! Folks want to make it harder than it needs to be.

03/01/2013 at 21:11
TR wrote (see)

how about we get ES to put himself (?) forward for a sub3 (NFR) science experiment where he does a week of LD's high mileage, a week of CDs 45mpw, a week of CWs 20M extravaganza followed by 6 days of bone depositing, a week of,,,,,,,etc.......... at the end of it he should be a nicely balanced average of all those on here, Simples !

Yes but then when I go sub-3 you'll all fight over who should get the credit as "trainer"

TR wrote (see)

or.................ES - I think you should start by working out how much time you are prepared to commit on a weekly basis, and then build a schedule from there.

Exactly what I was about to do... Discussions with the family are underway!

TR
03/01/2013 at 21:23

ES - come back here when you have how worked out much time you have each week and on which days, and then they can all argue over the best way to use it !

03/01/2013 at 22:25

Let's say that 3 weekdays are going to be restricted to an hour max. That's my main issue. One weekday I could do up to 2 hours, and the remaining one as a rest day, at least initially. Saturday is good for an hour or so and Sunday is long run day so more or less anything goes.

Argue away

03/01/2013 at 22:43
Fortunately Mr Crab I am able to provide compelling evidence for my "hot day" claim. Simply look through previous results and see what time you needed to get 187th place in London. In 2007 it was 2 hours 42 and a bit. In other years it was more like 2.38 or 2.39. Of course it could have been another reason, but hard to think what.

On that basis, I reasonably claim that high mileage gained me a good 20 mins off my PB. If you don't think that's dramatic, because you are already a better runner than that, then ask someone currently doing around 3 hours whether they consider it to be dramatic.

Onto the high mileage claim. Much harder to prove, of course, but until I hear that the top Kenyans are breaking world records off 45mpw, then I shall happily stay in the deluded belief I am also right on this.

Moreover, I feel saddened that people are actually prepared to mislead poor old ES that there is a better, more foolproof way to make big improvements than higher miles. These forums have loads of people who made big strides when switching to high mileage, the worlds best do high mileage, everyone involved in running says do high mileage. Ok some people may do well off low mileage, but surely he should be given advice that is more likely to help him succeed?
03/01/2013 at 22:59

Ooo I came back at just the right time... love all this debate! I'll be happy with a half-arsed approach and scraping another sub-3. Not as much time as some of you and besides... not sure my body could take it anyway... legs are threatening to run off with another woman after this weeks shock to the system.. I love it when they hurt!!

03/01/2013 at 23:12
Feckin hell, TR, you've given me a great idea. why didn't I think of this before. About 10 weeks ago I ran a HM and did 1.25. I had averaged 45 mpw for the previous 6 weeks.

I notice I have now averaged about 85 mpw for the last 6 weeks. No interval training included. therefore, the only thing that has changed is an increased mileage.

I shall now run the Central Lancs Half this Sunday as an experiment.

If I beat 1.25 I shall demand a grovelling apology from anyone that disagrees with me. Should I do worse than 1.25 I shall eat my shorts.
TR
03/01/2013 at 23:17

I think that ES has set out the amount of time he is prepared to commit, so that kid of drives the schedule.
For me its build up to the hour max on 3 weekdays, 90mins on the longer weekday, an hour Saturday and then 2hrs Sunday all (deliberately) easy running, over the next few weeks to see how it goes. Then you can add a bit to the midweek 90mins, add a few miles on the long runs and add a bit of MP running, if you are still coping ok.  Should be about 60 mpw after a few weeks and about 65-70 tops. Build frequency, miles and then pace. Stick around ES !

SJ - good man

TR
03/01/2013 at 23:21

Dids - thats one taker for my book ! I should read it too, I did 1:21 off a summer of 100* mpm (month) in Oct. NFRS indeed.

*although Padams runs 2:45s off less than that !

Edited: 03/01/2013 at 23:26
03/01/2013 at 23:45

 Averaging 70 miles per week from December 2006 ...

march 2007 Brentwood half ... 81:47 before London

red hot day london 2007 ... 3h16

may 2007 82:53 (one place behind Dan A)

2007 was quite hot

04/01/2013 at 00:31

I found my best times came from increasing the amount of times I ran every week from 3 to 4 and the odd 5 times a week. Haven't looked back since. Now running 4 times a week is a bad week! Even in the summer trying to crack a sub 30 minute 5 mile time I was running 5/6 times a week. The only question I have got LD, is that based on an av marathon pace of 6.52 required for a sub 3 marathon time, what sort of pace would you recommend for the higher mileage runs?

04/01/2013 at 01:02

Nichs.. I clocked 3:06.00 at FLM in 2007 off a Jan half time of 87:28.  I do declare you a not-so fairweather-runner!   

Dids.. the shorts you were wearing at York Park Run were clearly made of old potato skins.  Your 'eating my shorts' wager is therefore a bit limp.  

The old rib is healing gradually, I've even decided to man up and stop taking the painkillers altogether.  14+5+8+5 in the last 4 days, might even do a double next week!

04/01/2013 at 08:07

I'm not sure what I think about mileage. I certainly improved significantly by increasing mileage, but there's no way of knowing if I would have made the same improvement (or more) from lower mileage. I'd only just taken up running so improvement was more-or-less guaranteed. I've never been a massive mileage person - max was probably about 75 mpw average for the 2:29s, and then I've been running reasonably well since then off lower mileage plus lots of other training (cycling etc.), but that's after a few years of 3,000M+.

FLM 2007 was a bit warmer than usual - I rate that as one of my best runs ever, 2:33 for 48th place. Personally I prefer it a bit warmer, hence that time got me a position which usually required a 2:27ish. But I do feel people overestimate the effect of 20C, especially when there is water/sponges every 5-10 minutes to keep you cool.

8M last night at about 6:20 average.

04/01/2013 at 08:37
This is fascinating reading! I think for years people have struggled to correlate mileage to results. Day off yesterday as I did 3x loops of Portsdown Hill for a 36 mile bike in 2:04. Good fun and not too hard. Need to work on my cycling with the possibility if the Fred Whitton Challenge (112 miles over the lakes) coming up.
04/01/2013 at 09:04

Knight Rider - not sure there's much point being too prescriptive about the pace of your long runs. If you are doing other speedwork then long runs could be just a steady pace, if not then maybe you'd go quicker. (eg, use the later miles to run some at MP or 1/2 MP).

Personally I do most long runs slowly, but towards to race would run them faster.... especially the last 6-8 miles.

04/01/2013 at 09:08

Padams - actually, I confess that I didn't really find 2007 that hot. I was sponging down a lot as I ran and was never in any trouble, running to heart rate. I probably think that I ran a couple of minutes slower than I would have done, rather than the four that the stats suggest. (but I still reserve the right to call it a hot/blistering hot day as circumstances require!)

 

04/01/2013 at 10:16
CW - had confirmation from VLM that I will be I. The first pen as I put 2:54 down (I figured everyone inc 3:10 etc would put 2:59! I am prepared for barrage of hate - so I'd better run quicker!
04/01/2013 at 11:15

Toro - don't know if times have changed, but the GFA pen is/was shared by celebs. The year I was there they trundled them out at the last minute and had them strung along the front of hundreds of far better runners.

There were some expletives aired after the start - mainly aimed at a pair of supermodels who were jogging slowly along. Not really their fault.

04/01/2013 at 11:18

Dids: I think they've now separated GFA into FGFA (fast GFA) and GFA and the slebs go from GFA so Toro should be in a sleb free zone with a clear start.

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