Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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05/01/2013 at 13:28

Ha ha, TR.  Cross-country tomorrow includes a mob match (8 to score) as well as a team race (4 to score); from the team sheet I'm more likely to be 5th or 6th scorer than 4th but I wanted to front load the week mileage wise so that I could still run relatively well tomorrow without dropping any miles.

05/01/2013 at 14:03

Jools - you're doomed then, tapering is over-rated for short distances.

Toro - sorry, forgot to say (earlier), no not Hilsea (dont think that opens anymore), I dont use a proper Lido, it's W'ville pool. Its a 5min walk at lunchtimes.

05/01/2013 at 14:22
Jools - hope the legs respond and you have a good one tomorrow.
Tr - nice triple
LD- good luck tomorrow.
Dana - sounds like it could be a lot fun.

Just got myself a pair of fastwitch. Red soles and laces I presume that's far more important than mileage, and/or weather conditions.
05/01/2013 at 15:39

I'm not sure that 12 - 14 - 5 - 20 - rest - 6 as a 6 day training block amounts to a taper, TR, so I'm sure I'll be fine!

05/01/2013 at 17:36

7 miles off-road today on a new route. Mud, mud and more mud! Averaged 7:39 min/mile, which was about what I was aiming for.

Hurtling down hills with mud underfoot is hilarious!

Long run tomorrow then, aiming for 2 hours on my feet.

05/01/2013 at 19:26
Ran the Middlesex XC champs today, wasn't quite as wet as I thought it might be. Fairly pleased with my run considering I wasn't too up for it! Felt reasonably strong all the way passing people consistently probably should have started a bit faster, but was a bit mindful of the extra 4k on top of the 8k I've done over XC previously.

Finished in 58th place, my best performance over my 3 XC race history!!
05/01/2013 at 19:30

Thanks TR - I saw a plan online to get Hilsea open but it's quite old and obviously hasn't been able to raise the cash etc. Shame because I love Lidos.  When I was living in Plymouth I used to love the Lido.

Jools - Good Luck!

ES - Be careful! It as awfully barmy weather for this time of year 11 degrees here on the S. Coast.

Long run today (although a relative slow sprint for most on here) 14 miles in 1hr 40min.  Some nice HR data out of it too.  Which raises an interesting debate that must have been covered previously (i'll investigate): 

First assumption - you are training using HR.
Will you get better results training very closely to a pace as long as you are within your HR Zones or just sticking in zones without worrying about pace?  
According to the Attack Point vDOT Calculator I ran 20s too quickly today.  About 30s slower than Sub 3 M pace. It has my M pace at 6:36 based on 37:22. I was 1:45 slower than that M pace.  About 1:20 slower than my last 10km pace.  Not a million miles out but certainly approaching the junk miles grey zone. The point is it was always comfortable and at the lower end of the Polar 70-80% zone with a 72% overall average.  I am content but curious. 

I have been reading quite a bit of Don Fink Ironfit which I feelis quite a basic approach but certainly gets results.   

05/01/2013 at 19:49

Toro/TR -- part of the Christmas "entertainment" from my sister's place in Chichester a couple of years ago was a Boxing Day dip in the Arundel lido. Even the surface around the pool was cold enough to be painful on the feet, and the water was something else...

Well run in the XC AW, it seems like all the county champs are this weekend. I have mine (Cambs) tomorrow. However, I logged the highest weight on the scales this morning for over a year (compounded by a big curry last night), so I don't think I'll be very swift. I'm beginning to suspect that increased holiday wine consumption is significant there, so it's just as well normal standards of abstemiousness return next week.

Didn't run today because I'm still worried about my niggly inner tib, though I did 7M on it yesterday, and experimented a bit with how my foot landed to see that could improve it (possibly). The same side gets odd blisters so maybe it's all related. It's not a huge deal but I don't want to go into the spring campaign already damaged. Answer to increased weight = run more and eat less. Answer to fixing any iffy bones = don't run and eat more. Err...

Good luck to all those racing tomorrow, esp Dan (or was yours today?).

05/01/2013 at 20:20
Toro - that's a serious HR question. I think there's a mistake in what you've typed re 1:45 slower than M pace, 1:20 than 10k pace? Is that the wrong way round? On the assumption that you know your 10k and M pace already, and you know that, for example, you want to do an easy run about 10k plus 1.30 pace, then why would you need to run to your HRM?

Anyway, whilst I'm a big fan of HRMs, you can possibly guess what I think of Don Fink and his moneymaking "secrets of heart rate training" empire.....
05/01/2013 at 21:40
Wimped out of the Surrey XC today worried about a couple of niggles. But also keen to get my miles up (what do miles make . . .?) so tried an LSR and was happy to toddle round 20m @ 7:20 pretty comfortably.

2007 was my best position in the LM - two places and two seconds behind LD. I put it down to having trained through the previous summer for Amsterdam, and always running long runs dry, and not knowing the advice about adjusting target to conditions.

Well done to those who raced in XC today
06/01/2013 at 10:06

Jools - remind me, are you running VLM this year?  Big mileage in there if not.

Wardi - plan is still to head north for Brass Monkey, but unlikely to be in PB shape.  Spent most of December ill and still not shaken off the lurgy...

...however despite the snot overload, I still managed a very enjoyable outing at the Tromso Polar night half marathon yesterday.  All run in the dark (3pm start) on snow and ice the whole way; but they lit the route with candles which was a nice touch.  Didn't bother with spikes, and managed fine in normal road shoes.  Was surprised at the standard of the quick guys who disappeared rapidly.

Overall result was 10th place in 1.25 in a field of about 200-300 (more ran the 10k) - effort level felt the same as for a sub 1.20.

Winner smashed the course record and dipped under 1.13 (he has a mara PB of 2.21 so is fairly handy).  Great fun for a novelty race.  Might come back one day and do the Midnight Sun marathon in the summer.

PS, but most importantly I was the first runner in shorts having overtaken the leading shorts wearer just before halfway

Edited: 06/01/2013 at 10:09
06/01/2013 at 10:17

DanA - nice one, sounds a good experience.

CW - they use that Lido for a Tri in May.Chichester is a regular place for my bike rides.

17M for me today, did 16 last week, 15 the week before, but after a summer and autumn of ~100M per month I'm struggling on the long runs, However, I'm taking solace in that fact that if I'm this unfit now then it's going to be hard to peak too early.

06/01/2013 at 11:37
Dan. Great adventure, and a great run. I am pleased you preserved some dignity and wore shorts.
06/01/2013 at 14:57
A couple of big questions emerged today:
1. I wore black running socks (not those awful knee length compression socks of course) and was told they looked awful. Maybe if I was George Cluny I could have got away with them etc.
Did I commit a fashion crime?

2. Fifth race in a row that I beat all the people in the age group below mine. What the hell has happened to all the V45 runners these days? I strongly suspect they've all grown ginger sideburns, got the new Paul Weller album and a ??3k road bike for Xmas.
Mid-life crisis cop out?

Oh well, something to distract from the high mileage debate as I look through The Power of 10 to confirm that my recent run of high miles has (allegedly) resulted in my third fastest half mara! 1.19.20. Perfect conditions and a flat course, and well outside a pb, but it is only early Jan so I'm pleased enough.

Hill training awaits....
Blisters    pirate
06/01/2013 at 15:59

Lord D. I recall from a few days ago (scroll back a thousand pages) that you were aiming to run this race as part of a controlled experiment in order to demonstrate the value of high mileage training, as though we needed convincing. Your very tasty 1:19.20 requires some back up data if you please. Miles per week now vs previous attempt, taper periods, shorts, colour of socks/shoes, beardiness, and for what it's worth, whether or not you had a challenging 1-2-1 race in the final couple of miles.

[Personal, but boring contribution. 21 miles run on Friday, at a pleasing 8:20 pace. The more miles I do, the easier nad (typo) quicker this run has been getting. Funny that. Saturday 57 miles on the bike with a group. Legs completely toasted, hit the empty tank at 45 miles. Hallucinating at 55 miles. Might take a rest day with just swimming today].

06/01/2013 at 16:15

Blimey, I can't keep up with this thread. How do you lot have time to work and train as well as post on here? 

60 miles for week 1 involved struggling early in the week but improved for an 8th place finish in the Notts XC County Champs (enough to earn me a place in the Inter Counties). First senior team as well, so got a bit of bling to add to the collection of county medals that all look the same. Rounded it off with an 18 this morning. 


06/01/2013 at 16:25

Good half running DanA and LD. I have a pair of black running socks but they only get used for XC.

As per CL I wimped out of my County Champs XC yesterday. It would have meant racing on 4 consecutive weekends and this one was the lowest priority so I ditched it in favour of easy miles. 77 for the week, including a 21.8m run this morning in 2h30. It's only 2 and a bit months since my last marathon campaign so I gave it a bit of welly this morning to see where I currently stand compared to then. Based on this morning it looks like I 've retained the fitness and can push on from where I left off last time.

06/01/2013 at 16:47

After being bombarded with help and plans after my request(NOT ). I decided to do some research myself! I have just read Advanced Marathoning and I am going with with 70 to 85 miles per week Plan. Day 1 is tomorrow. And I am a couple of weeks behind since man flu, but day 1 is tomorrow and looking forward to running again
Came across this article that was interesting that compares Pfitzinger's plan with Higdgon's. I am a noob and very ignorant in these matters so I found it helpful to me at least. 

Who knows I might even be reporting about actual running soon, rather than moaning on about man flu! 


LD great running for HM. I have only ever run 2 HM and have challenged myself to run sub 01:20 as build up for my next marathon. 

Edited: 06/01/2013 at 16:48
06/01/2013 at 17:33
Good to see on the day I seek to rejoin my old compadres on the sub3 forum the debate includes my last FLM, the infamous 2007 scorchio and the joys of high mileage, which spelt marathon curtains for me. All in the dim and distant now and looking forward to Taunton in April, although sub3 will be a bit of a stretch.
06/01/2013 at 17:40

Dan -- not sure whether the shorts or normal road shoes for an ice race were more heroic, but cracking anyway.

LD -- sounds like a pleasing half.

Blisters -- your experience of a very comfortable multi-hour run (well done), but getting very hypo (dangerously so perhaps, given traffic) in what should be a lesser exercise bout while cycling, chimes with mine. I don't have an explanation. Nice long runs also CL, CC2 and AndyD.

Interesting TB, I confess I'd not previously heard of Higdon.

Great result in your XC champs CC2. I was a bit pants in mine -- started OK, at ~5:45 pace, but wilted badly after half way (averaging ~6:00/M overall). My leg niggle was pretty good though so I decided the boggy grass and trail shoe combination was worth a few more miles; and during those extra miles, I also started to feel peculiar (something I've noticed before when topping up after races; I suspect it is a useful simulation of a long run, somehow). Not sure if I got a little bit hypo there, or whether I'm getting ill -- slept for an unheard of 10hr last night and couldn't resist a nap after showering this afternoon. Not sure of my placing yet (too far back to keep count, maybe ~14th), but picked up an unexpected brace of medals for being in the winning senior and V40 teams.

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