Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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08/01/2013 at 13:27

Another amateur baker here.  LD - My loaves are slightly more dense than a supermaket one, I allow a lot of time for the first rise (sometimes overnight) then knock back, whack it around a bit then allow to rise in the loaf tin for a few hours in a warm place(above the boiler).  Hope the injury isn;t too bad.

08/01/2013 at 13:42

Welcome aboard, Bertie C (I suspect you will be BC before you know it).  More than welcome, especially those aiming at sub 3.  The speed merchants may have moved on, but it's still what the thread is really about.

08/01/2013 at 13:51

welcome to BC

RS - in 2012, I missed the first two weekends in March (hurt calf) so only bagged 8 runs of 20 or more, 3x20, 3x21, 1x22, 1x23. I did a 26.5 the previous yyear and reckon it was a waste of matches. I did however make some of the long runs last me 2:4X this time and the 23 took me 2:52 (which I reckoned would see me ok). I also only did about 6 actual MLRs (3 had 10 ~MP in them), but I did do a lot of commuting doubles. I dont intennd upon doing more than 7 or 8 x 20-22 this time and only ~6 actual MLRs again.

08/01/2013 at 14:14
TR wrote (see)

PP - some of those MP thursday's look tough. Some of them are considerably more than 10M of MP, is that possible in training ?


I'll let you know in March!  I went up to 13 @ bang-on target pace for Paris and that seemed OK.  Also I've bagged a few "Coro 10s" last year, and just before the HM the average pace for the best of these was 12secs/mile quicker than what I envisage target MP being; hard work on a Thursday evening but not quite a time-trial effort.

I'm looking forward to a bit of baking.  Will ease myself in with a basic wholemeal this weekend I think, but I can see lots of fruity/nutty experiments taking place.

Welcome Bertie!

Edited: 08/01/2013 at 14:40
08/01/2013 at 14:54

PP and bakers - I've got a breadmaker too and had tuna mayo sandwiches in wholemeal bread from it for lunch.  I too find that the loaves are heavier than the shop bought ones but much tastier.  Also, most of those multiseeded type loaves from the supermarket aren't actually wholemeal which is a shame because they do make good sandwiches.  Good jam experiment but surely marmalade rules.  

Good work in the XC by the way, all the best people come er 21st!  Also Al_P and Padams.

Marmite - thanks for posting that, interesting stats and gives the rest of us hope if it took you 8 years to break 3 and have run 2.31 since.  Are you going for sub 2.30 at VLM?

RS78 - re the 20s question I did 6x20+ for my first marathon with all being 20 apart from a 22 and a 23.5 which worked ok for 2.50 and also did the same for my second one which was OK for 2.44.  In both cases I got my midweek run up to 15 for a few weeks before but not many.  I should have done much more 20+ runs this time so will be interesting to see what difference that makes.  So, you don't necessarily need loads and loads of 20s to get the endurance.

Welcome to BC.

Couple of easy runs so far this week and will do 10 with some effort in tonight.  15 planned for tomorrow,

Edited: 08/01/2013 at 15:00
08/01/2013 at 15:00

Used a bread maker on holiday once. The bread was nice but the loaves were tall and a bugger to cut for sandwiches. Oh scraped an easy 8 commute this morning after 15 commute yesterday. Currently trying to build a base this month before starting on speed work properly in Febuary.

08/01/2013 at 15:02


TR/LJ - cheers, LJ what race are you doing, it sounds like it's soon?

08/01/2013 at 15:02

Postie - That is a problem if you make the bigger (1kg) loaf but you get a much better shaped loaf if you do a 750g one.  Good base mileage.

08/01/2013 at 15:09

RS - I'm doing VLM so it's not soon but I'm trying a higer mileage approach to running overall.  I'm running nearly all my runs quite slow at the moment whilst I get used to the higher mileage but when I start training for VLM specifically I'll start putting some more effort in.  

08/01/2013 at 16:19

So who else is doing VLM, I can see LJ is and what times (other than sub 3!!) are you after?

I am asking as the whole pacing bit is the one part that worries me.  I 'nibbled' five and a quarter minutes off of my HM PB in November (now 80:42) which is what is giving me some confidence about aiming for a sub 3.  Problem is EVERYONE without exception says don't be tempted to go off too fast, yep I get it......but what IS too fast?

08/01/2013 at 16:40

Bit early for tergets  BC  ;-)  

In my experience you'll know what MP is from your training, then be sensible on the day. If you're pushing the pace before mile 18-20 then you're probably working too hard.

08/01/2013 at 16:56

BC - There's the simple, if slightly facetious answer: if your target is sub 6:53/m, anything much quicker than that is going out too fast!  (Small technicality with London: around mile 3 you're travelling slightly downhill, which might justify getting a few seconds in the bank, but let's not complicate things...)  We'll no doubt have a more detailed debate about the merits of either small positive or negative splits, or running according to HR, etc. but IMO you can't go too far wrong with even pacing.  An 80 minute HM is a more than useful starting point for a crack at sub-3, so you just need to make sure the endurance is there to prevent the wheels coming off along the Embankment.

Erm, has anyone been to Oakham?  I've just booked my train tickets (overnight stay) for the Duathlon at Rutland Water.  Any recommendations for B&B and/or fine food/ale pubs gratefully received.   

Edited: 08/01/2013 at 17:05
08/01/2013 at 17:17

Hello and welcome Bertie C!

RS78 - glad to hear the leg has recovered and your back to pain free running, hope your road back in to training proper is smooth!

13 miles at MP sounds like a whole lot of hard work PP! Not sure I could summons up the will power in the middle of a heavy weeks training?!

8 x 800M reps done earlier today, paces were pretty good all but 1 around the 2.50-2.55 mark, but felt a whole lot of effort for it today. Legs were screaming at me to stop during the first couple, then things were ok for the rest.

08/01/2013 at 17:26

Washing machines, bread-making...: you guys are so domesticated!

08/01/2013 at 18:08

PP - we'll see how you get on then. Not much cycling in there for a Duathlon goal though !

RS/LJ - 6x20+, sounds similar then. I think I got caught up in doing to omay long runs, too many fast long runs and too many long runs that were too long. I remembered back to my first mara (2:52) and then I only did 7x20 and 1x22. So its 8 tops for me now and no chasing lots of longer longer runs. You need to allocate an extra week or two though in case for some reason you miss one like me this year when I missed 2 at the start of March.

08/01/2013 at 19:01
TR - duathlon training is definitely a little compromised, with VLM being the main focus, but as well as the long rides in the schedule the mid-week gym sessions will include at least one spin class and a rather frisky 1hr exercise bike session which I've been using for 2x15min threshold, will try to progress this to 2x20mins at harder effort. I might even try the odd brick!
08/01/2013 at 19:24
Five 20-22 milers is good enough for me.

Took a couple of iboprofen earlier and calf feeling loads better. Hurrah.
08/01/2013 at 20:06

Dids - good news on the calf, I find massage and hot water bottle help mine when the occur. Waht sort of distances do you do for the other long runs betwwen now and the 20s ?

PP - sounds like VLM is your main focus though. I dodnt bother with bricks apart from a couple of miles off the odd long bike. But I do race build up races on tired legs and I guess you will need to be running fast for your duathlon. That joke on Keirs thread made me laugh !

Edited: 08/01/2013 at 20:09
08/01/2013 at 21:04
TR - don't know, play it by ear.
Blisters    pirate
08/01/2013 at 21:31

I mended the washing machine this week, and made bread. All I need to do now is to get the @rse out of the door and do some training. Losing half a stone would help.

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