Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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10/01/2013 at 08:44

I did 5 x 3min ints with 2 min rest then 1 min on 1 min off to catch the Gosport ferry.  Bought my 10 trip season ticket so now I can include running into my commute more easily and avoid taking up family time.  This is the hard time for training, few races of importance and the training starts to ramp up, really got to keep focused. 

PP - What rest did you have between the 15's?  I really need to do some intervals on the bike. (not sure when as this will be a 10 hour week without trying!) 

10/01/2013 at 09:07

Selbs - All the best.

LJ - Good luck with the shin. They can be right buggers. With a sore calf I feel like I can judge whether it's a niggle or something more serious, but I tend to be fairly cautious with shin pains.

SL - Legs are fine thanks. I've pretty much picked up where I left off from my last marathon campaign in terms of mileage. Afterall, it was less than 3 months ago. I don't plan to increase mileage beyond my previous peak of around 85m, but I will look to improve consistency around the top end and speed up the key sessions.

No time to run yesterday but working from home today so bagged 10 easy first thing and will head out later for another 10 with a bit at MP.

10/01/2013 at 09:07

selbs - all the best mate. Hope all goes well for your wife. Am sure it will. And enjoy NZ!! Keep in touch mate too

10/01/2013 at 09:30

Selbs - Sounds like tough going with your knee, got fingers crossed it will come good for you. Glad all is well with mini-Selbs and I'm very envious of the long trip to NZ!

Good repping from CD,PP,AW and Toro, a nice fast 10 from LJ too (hope the shin doesn't flare up). Like the 10 double Andy D 

Been an on/off week for me, the left ITB hasn't settled down yet despite plenty of ice/roller. It doesn't hurt much but I can feel it tight going past my knee, adopting a 'play by ear' approach for the time being. That said I've managed 5M/10M inc 8x800/5.5M v slow/2k swim so far this week. 800s all came out around the 2:45 mark which I was quite happy with.

Also did the first (of six) Running School form improvement sessions on Monday and got the second one tomorrow, so will be interested to see what I get out of that. Swim instead of run today and I'll see how it goes tomorrow, but might take another rest as there's a county XC fixture in Bournemouth on Saturday I'm planning to do. So all in all getting some decent running done, but a bit lacking in the mileage department right now...

10/01/2013 at 09:38

Jools sorry - last bit on footy (for now).

Phil, If we can beat em, millwall can. Looking good for the play-offs - then the big league for your boys.

TR, Not much money about in the Football League. At least we have guaranteed a few more months with the TV money. Stupid wages at the top end ruining football.

Dids, 1972 - That's before I saw the light. I was attending ER courtesy of my step dad in them days. Mind you, it wasn't a bad time to be a Leeds fan. 50p in the Boys pen, I remember that. Had to have a shave though before I got in.

RJ, I was a 25 year season ticket holder. Stupidly let it lapse last season when I fell out with them. Got sick of coming away from the game with a stiff neck. Yes, will be my first visit to Villa Park. Wifey queued for tickets whilst I was at work, bless her. Guess it'll be like the Alamo.

Njord, Tinnion was far too good for Bradford. What a wand of a left foot. On the running front, you are far too skinny. You on the wagon? You may have to wait for me a while at BM, but I feel you deserve a pint.

Selbs, some things are more important than exercise. Enjoy your young family, you don't get a 2nd chance.

Running-wise, the absence of a spring mara has allowed me to drop mileage a bit, in the hope that I may get quicker. But it's not happening. May have to invest in some go-faster-stripes for my zimmer. See you guys at BM.


Edited: 10/01/2013 at 09:40
10/01/2013 at 10:23

Brian - a sign of the times is that anyone suspected of being older than 16 had the palms of their hands felt by the bloke on the turnstile of the boys pen.... tough skin = manual labour = not a schoolboy = piss off round to the kop.

(Or maybe Jimmy Savile had a saturday job at Elland Road then?)

10/01/2013 at 10:28

selbs - One of my club mates has recently got back from NZ with a cracking cycling tan!  Hope the move does you the power of good, and all the best for 2013.

Al_P - I've been getting some ITB tightness although, touch wood, the foam roller/rolling pin combo has kept it at bay and currently can't feel it at all.  I don't know if you've tried the rolling pin (ouch!) - it applies a different kind of pressure to the foam roller, so might be worth that little extra pain?

Toro - For the 2 x 15mins I was filling up an hour with 10m w/u, 15m effort, 10m easy (90 rpm at lower resistance), 15m effort, 10m c/d.  For 2 x 20mins I keep the 10 mins recovery and just reduce w/u & c/d to 5 mins.

TR - Good shout on the rpm.  I guess I can throw in some variety, maybe 5 mins in the middle of an effort, 80 rpm on higher resistance, trying to maintain the same watts?

Edited: 10/01/2013 at 10:29
10/01/2013 at 11:51

good stuff Toro

PP - 80 rpm is more like 10-20min reps for me, 5 min reps would be a bit lower again, I sometimes do something 2 or 3 mins at 60 ish, but the lower the rpm goes the lower the HR goes and it become more of a strength session than a HR one. But you could do a mixture.

Same 60min Turbo session this morning as y'day and the day before, felt tough y'day, and a bit tougher today. Back to the running tomorrow morning. 

10/01/2013 at 12:05

PP - Thanks for the tip, I will have to try the rolling pin. Do you focus on a particular bit of your ITB or try to do the whole thing (glute to calf?). My tighness/pain is at the knee, so I've been experimenting with varying pressure/durations on different sections of the outside of my leg. I've been icing the bit at my knee  and was figuring that I should not use the roller there, where the inflammation is, but don't know if that's right or not....

I've been roller-ing my glutes too as I have a suspicion that the problem might reside there (tight glute pulling on ITB).Someone at our club also mentioned to me that a tight ITB can be related to a weak opposite glute. My glutes are crap (as confirmed by physical trainer/running school coach) and my right one in particular, so I'm working on them with a bit of weighing to the right side.

Going to look at getting a bout of sports massage on it too.

All this bike talk it making me think I should dust mine off and get back on it at least weekly (some what dis-used right now )

10/01/2013 at 12:15

Selbs - sounds like you need a bit of luck.  Remember that PP & ZaTTu both came back from long spells out with very impressive results

Some amazing mileage from SL going on.  Low 2.20's on the cards this year?

Njord - I'm planning on going to Brass Monkey.  Will join you for a pint after.

YD - as above, I might try for a time around 80 mins. Hard to say whether that's realistic though.  This time last year I cruised through 13 miles in 79 mins en route to a 20 mile PB, but I'm a long way from that sort of shape now.  Only indicators are an 81 min run at Gosport in November (that was a 100% effort), and an 85 min half on the snow & ice in Norway this weekend just gone.

Did have a good 16 last night; one of those runs when you just don't feel tired.  But the karma train restored balance when I drove my car into a concrete pillar in the car park FFS 


10/01/2013 at 13:16

well my calf injury turned out to be just a bit of a gay ache as I'm back and running on it. I've had a few of these sorts of things of late, where there is definitely pain in a muscle, down the front of my shin etc, even sore to the touch, but if I just run on it it's OK. Makes it a bugger to spot the real injuries, even though it is a sense of regular joy to discover that I've got away with another scare.

My knee, however, is a real mystery. Run at 8:30 pace and it's OK, run at 6:30 pace and it's OK, but somewhere in the middle pain results after a few miles. Obviously there is a simple solution to this......but I feel like some old, dodgy electrical appliance which only works on some settings and you suspect is just one use away from the local junk yard.

And now I have picked up that bloody cold. 24 hours in and it is confined to my nasal passages, but I'm told it won't end there. What do you do? Get a last long one in before the inevitable, or take to my bed and hope it will peter out before it's begun?

No wonder athletes need grants - I've got a big decision tree on a sheet of paper in front of me, working out the permutations of what I should do next. Couldn't do that if I was stacking shelves.

10/01/2013 at 13:16
TR wrote (see
YD - I saw on Keirs thread that you've been training hard and have more hard work planned. Make sure that you take some easy time after that 1/2 and make sure that you save enough matches for your marathon. You don't want to struggle first time out. It'd be very easy to get carried away with doing too much.

TR – thanks for the concern, and in answer to your question, yes, I am having a mini cut back in the lead up to the race and I have a planned couple of easier weeks following. I will then get into the more Marathon specific stuff.

Dan A – looks like the 80 could be doable for you then. There will be loads of runners chasing sub 80, so getting into a group should be easy enough. It is an exposed course, so group running might be necessary if it’s a windy day.
Bad luck on the car

Healing vibes to all those struggling at the moment, in particular Selbs, that sounds like a tough few months. Having a new born around is tough enough without all the other stuff.

10/01/2013 at 13:36

Dan - not sure I would say loads of miles but I've increased it, don't think I'll hit the heights of last year but I'm trying to maintain quality rather than just "base build."  I'll probably average 85 per week for the campaign.  Last year I think I did too many 20's whereas I should have taken some of to 22-24 and a few shorter with more MP in.  Mind you this time next year I may be saying the oppositie  ;-)  All fun and games nonetheless.  Not sure on terget yet, I need 5.30's to feel more comfortable, mainly through track and tempo work with a fair few slower miles thrown in. 

10/01/2013 at 14:17

AL_P - As I remember it actually using the foam roller on your ITB does nothing to help the problem as it's some kind of fascia (or something like that).  It's often your hip that's causing it to tighten so if you use it on your hip you should see some improvement. Running school is a good idea as that's likely to be the root cause.  Which one are you doing?  I've been on the look out for something like that and I don't live too far from you (down the road from where you're running xc this weekend actually).

Selbs - Scary times.  I hope that it all turns out well.

Padams - Good luck in the race.  I'm looking forward to the report already!

Took a leaf out of Ron Hill's book and made it a goal of mine to run every day this year as I think that I need to HTFU a bit and JFDI some days.  Most of the miles are first thing in the morning (is 5:45 Gobi O'Clock?) so very very slow as my back hasn't started moving at that time of the morning and there have been a few days of just over a mile but plan to build on it. 

Edited: 10/01/2013 at 14:17
10/01/2013 at 14:35

TR - cheers, I'll experiment.  If nothing else, playing around with resistance/rpm/HR combinations in the gym will be an interesting distraction from Loose Women with the sound down. 

Al_P - When I had a proper ITB problem (on the other leg) the physio got me rolling up the whole length.  Rightly or wrongly I use the rolling pin on the bandy bit that's a little more exposed, just above the outside of the knee.  You're definitely onto something with the strengthening the glutes as well.  I like bridges and clams!

Dan - D'oh! 

10/01/2013 at 14:44

Al_P - I find it a little hard to get the glute well with a foam roller, but if you use a tennis ball that can be really useful for releasing any tight/trigger points. When you find a point that's tight/sore, leave it there until you feel it releasing/easing then move on to the next bit!

The foam roller is great for the IT band though, I too have always been told by my physio to work the whole length from knee to hip whenever mines been tight.

10/01/2013 at 15:08

Thanks for the ITB treatment info PP, Clearly and AW. Part of me thinks I might being a bit paranoid now as I can't really find any sore spots when I massage. I've booked a proper sports massage for tomorrow evening, so that should find anything if it's there 

Clearly - I'm going to the Running School in Southampton, it's actually run by a club mate who started doing it about a year or so ago. Space in the room is a bit tight (out the back of the Sweatshop store), but there's a section of tarmac just outside they can use too. Jury's still out IMO on how effective it will be, I'll let you know how it goes...

AW - Good tennis ball tip, coincidentally I brought a giant tennis ball (5" diameter) at a pet shop at lunch today, as I'd heard tennis ball were a good massage tool. Thought I was on to a winner when I tried it out, as it really felt good, but on closer inspection it looks like it's splitting along the seam already/ Probably not designed to bear the weight of a human Might see if I can superglue it back together, but only 4 quid if it's a lost a standard size ball at home I can try instead!



10/01/2013 at 15:34

Never tried a tennis ball or rolling pin, though I did use a wine bottle once! Though the foam roller usually does the trick.

Another stretch I sometimes do for the IT band, is one that you might see footballers use when they are warming up. You lie on your back, one leg stays on the ground pointing towards 6 O’clock, you then lift the other leg up and then over the other leg and try and get it over towards the ground as close as you can to the 9 or 3 O’clock position. I sometimes use something like a dressing gown chord or a belt around my ankle to help pull the leg down towards the ground for a more intense stretch.

10/01/2013 at 16:29

YD - sounds wise then.

Clearly - thats 45 minutes past Gobi o'clock, but I bet you are happy to be out there then rather than on the bench.

10/01/2013 at 17:33

ITB - I found massaging the offending leg with Olive Oil whilst sat on the lounge floor watching Big Brother ultimately did the trick. Certainly stretching and resting for several weeks didn't seem to work.

(Before anyone asks, I imagine that the specific type of oil was unimportant. Also, I think a different room and different TV prog would have yielded the same results).

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