Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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10/01/2013 at 10:23

Brian - a sign of the times is that anyone suspected of being older than 16 had the palms of their hands felt by the bloke on the turnstile of the boys pen.... tough skin = manual labour = not a schoolboy = piss off round to the kop.

(Or maybe Jimmy Savile had a saturday job at Elland Road then?)

10/01/2013 at 10:28

selbs - One of my club mates has recently got back from NZ with a cracking cycling tan!  Hope the move does you the power of good, and all the best for 2013.

Al_P - I've been getting some ITB tightness although, touch wood, the foam roller/rolling pin combo has kept it at bay and currently can't feel it at all.  I don't know if you've tried the rolling pin (ouch!) - it applies a different kind of pressure to the foam roller, so might be worth that little extra pain?

Toro - For the 2 x 15mins I was filling up an hour with 10m w/u, 15m effort, 10m easy (90 rpm at lower resistance), 15m effort, 10m c/d.  For 2 x 20mins I keep the 10 mins recovery and just reduce w/u & c/d to 5 mins.

TR - Good shout on the rpm.  I guess I can throw in some variety, maybe 5 mins in the middle of an effort, 80 rpm on higher resistance, trying to maintain the same watts?

Edited: 10/01/2013 at 10:29
10/01/2013 at 11:51

good stuff Toro

PP - 80 rpm is more like 10-20min reps for me, 5 min reps would be a bit lower again, I sometimes do something 2 or 3 mins at 60 ish, but the lower the rpm goes the lower the HR goes and it become more of a strength session than a HR one. But you could do a mixture.

Same 60min Turbo session this morning as y'day and the day before, felt tough y'day, and a bit tougher today. Back to the running tomorrow morning. 

10/01/2013 at 12:05

PP - Thanks for the tip, I will have to try the rolling pin. Do you focus on a particular bit of your ITB or try to do the whole thing (glute to calf?). My tighness/pain is at the knee, so I've been experimenting with varying pressure/durations on different sections of the outside of my leg. I've been icing the bit at my knee  and was figuring that I should not use the roller there, where the inflammation is, but don't know if that's right or not....

I've been roller-ing my glutes too as I have a suspicion that the problem might reside there (tight glute pulling on ITB).Someone at our club also mentioned to me that a tight ITB can be related to a weak opposite glute. My glutes are crap (as confirmed by physical trainer/running school coach) and my right one in particular, so I'm working on them with a bit of weighing to the right side.

Going to look at getting a bout of sports massage on it too.

All this bike talk it making me think I should dust mine off and get back on it at least weekly (some what dis-used right now )

10/01/2013 at 12:15

Selbs - sounds like you need a bit of luck.  Remember that PP & ZaTTu both came back from long spells out with very impressive results

Some amazing mileage from SL going on.  Low 2.20's on the cards this year?

Njord - I'm planning on going to Brass Monkey.  Will join you for a pint after.

YD - as above, I might try for a time around 80 mins. Hard to say whether that's realistic though.  This time last year I cruised through 13 miles in 79 mins en route to a 20 mile PB, but I'm a long way from that sort of shape now.  Only indicators are an 81 min run at Gosport in November (that was a 100% effort), and an 85 min half on the snow & ice in Norway this weekend just gone.

Did have a good 16 last night; one of those runs when you just don't feel tired.  But the karma train restored balance when I drove my car into a concrete pillar in the car park FFS 


10/01/2013 at 13:16

well my calf injury turned out to be just a bit of a gay ache as I'm back and running on it. I've had a few of these sorts of things of late, where there is definitely pain in a muscle, down the front of my shin etc, even sore to the touch, but if I just run on it it's OK. Makes it a bugger to spot the real injuries, even though it is a sense of regular joy to discover that I've got away with another scare.

My knee, however, is a real mystery. Run at 8:30 pace and it's OK, run at 6:30 pace and it's OK, but somewhere in the middle pain results after a few miles. Obviously there is a simple solution to this......but I feel like some old, dodgy electrical appliance which only works on some settings and you suspect is just one use away from the local junk yard.

And now I have picked up that bloody cold. 24 hours in and it is confined to my nasal passages, but I'm told it won't end there. What do you do? Get a last long one in before the inevitable, or take to my bed and hope it will peter out before it's begun?

No wonder athletes need grants - I've got a big decision tree on a sheet of paper in front of me, working out the permutations of what I should do next. Couldn't do that if I was stacking shelves.

10/01/2013 at 13:16
TR wrote (see
YD - I saw on Keirs thread that you've been training hard and have more hard work planned. Make sure that you take some easy time after that 1/2 and make sure that you save enough matches for your marathon. You don't want to struggle first time out. It'd be very easy to get carried away with doing too much.

TR – thanks for the concern, and in answer to your question, yes, I am having a mini cut back in the lead up to the race and I have a planned couple of easier weeks following. I will then get into the more Marathon specific stuff.

Dan A – looks like the 80 could be doable for you then. There will be loads of runners chasing sub 80, so getting into a group should be easy enough. It is an exposed course, so group running might be necessary if it’s a windy day.
Bad luck on the car

Healing vibes to all those struggling at the moment, in particular Selbs, that sounds like a tough few months. Having a new born around is tough enough without all the other stuff.

10/01/2013 at 13:36

Dan - not sure I would say loads of miles but I've increased it, don't think I'll hit the heights of last year but I'm trying to maintain quality rather than just "base build."  I'll probably average 85 per week for the campaign.  Last year I think I did too many 20's whereas I should have taken some of to 22-24 and a few shorter with more MP in.  Mind you this time next year I may be saying the oppositie  ;-)  All fun and games nonetheless.  Not sure on terget yet, I need 5.30's to feel more comfortable, mainly through track and tempo work with a fair few slower miles thrown in. 

10/01/2013 at 14:17

AL_P - As I remember it actually using the foam roller on your ITB does nothing to help the problem as it's some kind of fascia (or something like that).  It's often your hip that's causing it to tighten so if you use it on your hip you should see some improvement. Running school is a good idea as that's likely to be the root cause.  Which one are you doing?  I've been on the look out for something like that and I don't live too far from you (down the road from where you're running xc this weekend actually).

Selbs - Scary times.  I hope that it all turns out well.

Padams - Good luck in the race.  I'm looking forward to the report already!

Took a leaf out of Ron Hill's book and made it a goal of mine to run every day this year as I think that I need to HTFU a bit and JFDI some days.  Most of the miles are first thing in the morning (is 5:45 Gobi O'Clock?) so very very slow as my back hasn't started moving at that time of the morning and there have been a few days of just over a mile but plan to build on it. 

Edited: 10/01/2013 at 14:17
10/01/2013 at 14:35

TR - cheers, I'll experiment.  If nothing else, playing around with resistance/rpm/HR combinations in the gym will be an interesting distraction from Loose Women with the sound down. 

Al_P - When I had a proper ITB problem (on the other leg) the physio got me rolling up the whole length.  Rightly or wrongly I use the rolling pin on the bandy bit that's a little more exposed, just above the outside of the knee.  You're definitely onto something with the strengthening the glutes as well.  I like bridges and clams!

Dan - D'oh! 

10/01/2013 at 14:44

Al_P - I find it a little hard to get the glute well with a foam roller, but if you use a tennis ball that can be really useful for releasing any tight/trigger points. When you find a point that's tight/sore, leave it there until you feel it releasing/easing then move on to the next bit!

The foam roller is great for the IT band though, I too have always been told by my physio to work the whole length from knee to hip whenever mines been tight.

10/01/2013 at 15:08

Thanks for the ITB treatment info PP, Clearly and AW. Part of me thinks I might being a bit paranoid now as I can't really find any sore spots when I massage. I've booked a proper sports massage for tomorrow evening, so that should find anything if it's there 

Clearly - I'm going to the Running School in Southampton, it's actually run by a club mate who started doing it about a year or so ago. Space in the room is a bit tight (out the back of the Sweatshop store), but there's a section of tarmac just outside they can use too. Jury's still out IMO on how effective it will be, I'll let you know how it goes...

AW - Good tennis ball tip, coincidentally I brought a giant tennis ball (5" diameter) at a pet shop at lunch today, as I'd heard tennis ball were a good massage tool. Thought I was on to a winner when I tried it out, as it really felt good, but on closer inspection it looks like it's splitting along the seam already/ Probably not designed to bear the weight of a human Might see if I can superglue it back together, but only 4 quid if it's a lost a standard size ball at home I can try instead!



10/01/2013 at 15:34

Never tried a tennis ball or rolling pin, though I did use a wine bottle once! Though the foam roller usually does the trick.

Another stretch I sometimes do for the IT band, is one that you might see footballers use when they are warming up. You lie on your back, one leg stays on the ground pointing towards 6 O’clock, you then lift the other leg up and then over the other leg and try and get it over towards the ground as close as you can to the 9 or 3 O’clock position. I sometimes use something like a dressing gown chord or a belt around my ankle to help pull the leg down towards the ground for a more intense stretch.

10/01/2013 at 16:29

YD - sounds wise then.

Clearly - thats 45 minutes past Gobi o'clock, but I bet you are happy to be out there then rather than on the bench.

10/01/2013 at 17:33

ITB - I found massaging the offending leg with Olive Oil whilst sat on the lounge floor watching Big Brother ultimately did the trick. Certainly stretching and resting for several weeks didn't seem to work.

(Before anyone asks, I imagine that the specific type of oil was unimportant. Also, I think a different room and different TV prog would have yielded the same results).

10/01/2013 at 19:56

I started to get issues with my ITB on picking up my speed before the Sunderland Marathon last year. Although the foam roller helped. I reallised that I had been extending my stride and heel striking more as I tried to speed up.

Some of the running podcasts I listened to, mentioned taking a shorter stride and increased cadence (which made sense with my time spent mountain biking). I am not proposing vibrams just a shorter stride and landing more on the forefront.

Oh and I am finally running again

10/01/2013 at 21:00

selbs -- crikey, you've had plenty to deal with. Good luck with it all and enjoy NZ.

LD -- I'm with you on combining massage and telly. When a niggle has really needed a painful massage, I've found that's best done with a beer or two (muscle relaxant and anaesthetic) for the 90 min duration of some suitable film, with feet up on the sofa.

Having said that the piriformis responded well to the tennis ball treatment, just for a few mins moving from spot to spot, no beer or telly required (just a lot of wincing and groaning).

I was going to give my dicky ankle bone a whole week off, but it's had 4 days now and I really couldn't tell there was anything wrong with it, so I might jog to work tomorrow and see what happens.

TB -- I got faster by lengthening my stride but also landing still on the ball of my foot -- though it took my calves a while to adjust. But before that, I had an oddly high cadence (200+ footfalls/min).

10/01/2013 at 21:21

Hi all

I've been lurking for a few weeks and really enjoying the advice and updates.  I hope you dont mind me joining in. I'm an "in between" for these threads - I finally made it through the 3.15 barrier in 2012 but am clearly still a long way off 3.00.  Will be hoping to work towards it over the next couple of years. 

A bit about me - I'm from the UK but moved to Wellington, New Zealand in 2006 and love living over here. Because of that you'll often find me posting at odd times of the night!  I run for Wellington Scottish, which is one of the country's biggest running clubs.  I live with my partner and his 3 kids, he is a really good marathon runner (no good for me to run with - too quick!) We both love travelling and racing, so I've been lucky enough to do Amsterdam and New York marathons in recent years.  This year our plan is to come over for Dublin.

Currently I'm getting back to full training - I took a couple of months off (just running maybe 2-3 times a week) after running 2 marathons in October. I'm back up to about 50-60 miles a week now and will probably hold at this level for a while.

10/01/2013 at 21:25

TB.. good to see you're pounding the tarmac again.

Dids.. when I feel a cold coming on (haven't had one for over 2 years though!) I put an extra layer on, go for a run and try & sweat it out.  Not what a Doctor would advise I'm sure but it has often worked for me.

Clearly.. best of luck with the running streak, nice idea when you've missed out for so long.

DanA.. nice 16 there but a bummer about the car.   I'll look out for a dented vehicle at York then!

Good session Toro.

Selbs.. all the best fella and best wishes for the health of Mrs Selbs & junior.  I'm sure you will enjoy a return to NZ!

M.. welcome aboard, I think I remember you from the forum back in the 'old' days. 

10m today with 12 x 400m @ 6mm pace in the middle.  Only the faintest protest from the cranky rib so I will declare myself off the bench.  Think I'll blast round the Park Run on Saturday to keep the legs turning over.  Looks like a good thread day out at York BM, like Y D I'm hoping the wind stays away.

Edited: 10/01/2013 at 21:28
10/01/2013 at 21:27

M - welcome, I recgnise you from being on the daily (lyric) thread a while ago. When is your next marathon ? What time did you do in 2012 ?

CW - 20M tomorrow then ?

wardi - looks like you are fit again then !


Edited: 10/01/2013 at 21:27
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