Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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14/01/2013 at 08:13

Speaking of off-road shoes, on Saturday I wore Saucony Peregrines for the entire race, and had no issues whatsoever - no blisters or sore feet (like I had in the Lakeland 50). I do have one black toenail but that one has been bad for ages. And I wore socks which were 3 pairs for about £3 I think from the supermarket!

My legs do feel OK today, much better than after a fast marathon (or the Ballbuster, which was the worst DOMS I've ever had). It's a bit like after an IM, legs are generally not too sore 24 hours later.

14/01/2013 at 09:23

Padams - re DOMS - I've found the same in the past after ultras.  I thought you might suffer more given your limited running mileage, but good that you're not.  I see that the provisional results are up - just 24 seconds between 1st and 2nd!  That must be the ultra-marathon equivalent of a photo-finish!

CharlieW - my 'course best' is nowhere near any of the last four years' winning times.  My record:

2010: 5.46 for 2nd place.  Poor conditions.  Snow, ice, rain, headwind.
2011: 5.54 for 5th place.  Quite good conditions.  Mild. Slight breeze.
2012: 5.45 for 5th place.  Super-quick conditions.  No breeze, frozen ground.

The year you ran (2010) was so much harder than the other two years above.  Much as I'd like to convince Padams though, probably not 13 minutes harder than 2013

A.W. - again, stunning time from your missus.  Pass on my (and Caz's) congratulations.  Out of interest, what time does she run for a marathon?

I missed C2C this year because I sensed I was getting into good shape and want to train sensibly for VLM (43 milers aren't part of most mara training programmes). 

As it turns out, I've probably failed [to train sensibly] so far this year, but it's been an encouraging start nonetheless - Princes parkrun runner-up (17.42) on 1st Jan followed by Liverbird New Year's Day marathon an hour later (winner in a very windy 3.06), runner-up at Enigma Winter Marathon 1 on 5th Jan (2.58), winner at Enigma Winter Marathon 2 on 6th Jan (2.56), and my best Border League performance for several years yesterday at Birkenhead Park (~5.5 miles in 31.23).  Firmly believe there's another pb in the old legs yet.

Edited: 14/01/2013 at 09:26
14/01/2013 at 10:20

Tim - some of the Marathon runners of the 1910-20s used to walk a lot as part of their training and look what sort of shit times they used to do. Would have thought it would have a marginal effect at best - will help you lose a few cals/day if nothing else.

Cold - was loads better by last night. Ran to work this morning .... nose running a lot again now, but that's just the outside temps. Yippeeeeeee! Slipped only slightly down the Strava worldwide january challenge. Think I might try a monumental week to get in the top 10. (It's my big 50th party on saturday so sunday will be a zero.). I reckon there will be a lot of people who can't sustain the mileage they have done the first 14 days.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
14/01/2013 at 10:23

That's a not too shabby series of races there Njord.

[that's my early entry for understatement of the year, BTW]

14/01/2013 at 10:25
Njord - not sure what she would run over a marathon, she hasn't raced one for a good few years. She ran a 1.32 half in october, off the back of lots of miles for ultra training, so recon she could run sub 3.15 at the moment.

Easy 5 miles for me this morning, hope the snow hasn't been too bad where ever you are?
14/01/2013 at 10:35

A.W - 6.08 for Country To Capital is a bloody good conversion from a 1.32 half.  She will have beaten a lot of sub-3 marathon runners (sub-1.25 half-marathoners) with that time.

Cheers Cheerful.  Running/racing is easy when things are going well.  Long may it continue.

14/01/2013 at 11:30

Njord - had to read that twice.  3 marathons in a total of 9 hours exactly in the space of a week.  And with a 17.42 5k warm up before the first!  Extraordinary.

If a celebrity had done that, they'd be give a lifetime achievement award at BBC SPOTY.

If I can get within a mile of you at the end of the Brass Monkey I'll be delighted.


14/01/2013 at 11:37

Njord - the guy that ended up in 2nd was apparently 11 mins ahead of me and the eventual winner at around halfway. The winner was following me up to the canal (I was the navigator...), and I suspected he was waiting to pick up the pace once he was on the canal. He was probably taking 30s/mile out of me while I could see him on the canal (and I was running around 7:10 pace) - he must have caught the leader in the last mile or two!

So by 6 Jan you'd run 3 marathons, 2 of which were sub 3, and the other you won, and had run a 17:42 5k immediately beforehand?! Would be interesting to see what you could do in a fast marathon with a proper taper.

Edited: 14/01/2013 at 11:37
14/01/2013 at 12:00

Njord.  That is a mighty impressive bank of running!  If you can focus it all down on VLM then you should get a stunning PB.  Look forward to seeing what happens!

14/01/2013 at 12:01

christ Njord and there was me thinking I was starting to run well, amazing stuff!!

14/01/2013 at 12:13

Njord: menthol.

14/01/2013 at 12:21

Njord - that must warrant a "fair effort son", same goes for Padams.

14/01/2013 at 12:39

Njord/Padams - grudgingly, approaching reasonable I guess.

Walking?  You're trying to wind me up, right? I'm not biting.

Toro - suggest you ask His Lordship for some cycling advice.  Apparently he cycles over 25% faster than you. He could end up on Oprah's couch if he keeps those claims up ;o)

Did a run yesterday.  Almost reached reasonable meself.  It's been a while.  14 weeks to avoid a bout of PrettyBoy-itis.

MtR - not bad for a fat lad.  Keep at it. 

As you were.

14/01/2013 at 13:01

Hmm, sore throat and slight fever this morning - maybe the increased mileage has hit my immune system. I will be carding a zero today, since it was a planned rest day anyway and it feels like I need it.

Anyone out in the snow this moring?

14/01/2013 at 13:22

Not been on here in a while. Nice to seem some familiar faces, all continuing to run impressive times. I'de like to share my experiences from the Tiberius Marathon ( run last Thursday, here in Israel.

Probably not the most rested I have ever been before a marathon, with a new baby (born 3 weeks prior) and all, plus not sure how good my nutritional strategy was, but I honestly think that even had the preparation been perfect, nothing could have prepared any of the runners for those winds from the 21K mark back down to 30K where we turned the corner, back to Tiberius!

1-5K: I ran with a friend and the Kenyan women. Ironically, I was trying to persuade him not to go out too fast! Might not have been the smartest of moves looking back on it, but did not feel too much energy being used.
5-10K: Still felt strong, but was definitely taking it easier.
10-21K: Best part of the race. Got to the half in 1.26, pretty much as expected and was feeling great.
21-30K: To be honest I didn't feel like I was losing too much speed here, in relation to the RIDICULOUS headwind and even thought I was conserving energy.
30-37K: It was only when I turned the corner that I realized how much energy I had used up on the last stretch. I felt like I was totally broken and could not go on – luckily the coach of my running club was on the sidelines at this point, and pretty much saved the day.
The power of words and company were truly comforting from the 30 – 32K mark. Even though I might have seemed unresponsive and possibly unappreciative, the calming influence really helped.
Aside from the coach's company for a couple of K, it was by far the loneliest stretch of the race mentally. I still have no idea how I managed to hold it together. The wheels were definitely wobbling…
37-42.2K …or so I thought. Something just clicked inside my head (certainly not my legs) at this point and I decided just like that, to finish this thing with some dignity.
The Finish: I was actually quite surprised to see 2:56 on the clock, even though by this stage I knew I couldn't be far off, because in the dark section of the race I thought I’d be lucky to keep it under 3hrs. So, I ended up with an almost 4min +ve split, but under those conditions I think that was just about expected.

Lessons learned:

  • As much as possible have a visual plan of the marathon as a whole, so you can be better prepared at key stages.
  • Rest i.e. sleep, as much as possible and make sure to have a solid nutritional plan, the week beforehand
  • Do a larger percentage of long runs at a slower pace

After ‘PBing’ last year, this marathon certainly brought me back down to earth! The marathon truly is an enigma. Saying that I know that I am definitely capable of bettering my time in the future 



5K splits:
1-5: 19:44
5-10: 20:31
10-15: 20:41
15-20: 20:26
20-25: 20:39
25-30: 21:47
30-35: 21:23
35-40: 21:30
40-42.2: 9:39 (4min/k average)

14/01/2013 at 13:25

and a pic of me crossing the line


14/01/2013 at 13:29

Great run, Viggy!

On walking, here is what I was thinking about last night

14/01/2013 at 14:03

Nice running, Viggy.  It sounds like you had to dig pretty deep out there and that the crowd support reduced at the worst possible moment (although it has to be said on a bad day on the Embankment I have sometimes felt that the crowd isn't that helpful...)

ES: thread wisdom is that pink grapefruit is the ultimate anti-cold medicine.  Feel free to also have curry, echinacea, vitamin C, zinc and First Defence (non-branded alternatives are available).  The placebo effect of each is nothing short of miraculous.

Edited: 14/01/2013 at 14:04
14/01/2013 at 14:14

Well toughed out Viggy. Good effort, especially if your focus have been elsewhere recently!

Njord - sounds like a fairly energetic start to the year.

14/01/2013 at 14:23

Busy old weekend on here again! Congratulations to Padams for a great C2C time, Nice MP miles from SL, welcome to M, good weekend double+Parkrun PB combo from Jools, good parkrunning from Wardi and well done to AW's other half for taking the C2C win  (nice 20 too AW ),tough XCing from Andy D, and great turbo'ing from TR!

CW -  Like the grass based long running, must be good for runs post injury/niggle, I'm guessing you were doing laps? If so how long are they? We don't really have any big enogh parks around our way to do that, but there is a flat(ish) grass plain where my club meets in the New Forest which is a mile around the edge. Unfortunately, like for TR,  it's very soggy at the moment. Happy Birthday btw

Clearly - Good to hear you're back into the realms of speed work 

MtR - mmmmm pork 

Njord - Highly impressive string of results!

Viggy - Nice time given the ineveritable upheaval that follow a new arrival (I had the same in Sept last year, but had factored in not doing an Autumn marathon on purpose!)

No XC for me on Saturday as I got a very sore back (straight after the massage session!) and decided it wasn't a good idea to slog around Kings Park in Bournemouth in the mud and rain... It felt much better yesterday so headed out for a long run, leg and back were pretty fine so did 7M and then 13M with the club in some delightful wet & muddy conditions in the Forest. It was a nice training run, some hilly(ish) bits to start with, good strength training from the mud and even some faster miles on the gravel sections (range was 6:10-7:30/M). Even lost my leg up to the thigh in a pool of mud at one point . Very happy with overall 20M @ 6:51/M. Could only manage a very pedestrian 5.2M this morning though (av 9:26/M )! Had a follow up massage session just to make sure my left quad is ok as well.



Edited: 14/01/2013 at 14:24
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