Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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17/01/2013 at 21:50

Nice photo CW and enjoyed the blog Padams.

Just been doing some shoe shopping as my Bostons are starting to feel a bit worn. While trying to figure out the difference between all the Adizero models I stumbled across Mi Adidas where you can design your own colour scheme for the Adios 2. It costs £130 compared to the £75 the standard ones cost (they've gone back to yellow now) but thought it might be of interest to anyone wanting to maximise their PB with a pair of entirely red shoes.

On weather watch here ahead of Helsby Half on Sunday. I think it'll pass us by in the North West though.

17/01/2013 at 21:53
TT - good to get out and get the first proper LR under your belt

Wardi - Nice treadle sesh, mixing up the paces

10M today with 2 lots of 2x0.5M efforts, not particular stellar for the efforts @ around 6mm, felt a bit sluggish really.

Plan A for this weekend is a Boscombe winter 5k on Friday and then a 10k Sunday, with rest on Saturday (low on mileage, high on speed)

(Snow) plan B is a treadmill interval session (5x2k or similar) on Friday and a slow long run in a white New Forest on Sunday...
17/01/2013 at 21:53
And very nice reps SL, impressive speed!
17/01/2013 at 21:55

Andy D - Nike have a similar idea, you can personalize with names too.

17/01/2013 at 22:19

Weston Prom Run for me tonight as an easier way of doing 10M with 5M @ HMP as per P&D this week.  Pretty pleased to be only 4s slower than last month (31.50 v 31.46) as legs felt heavy and grotty when warming up, but the splits were damn near perfect for blind pacing (i.e. I didn't look at my Garmin at all when running): 6.18, 6.19, 6.24, 6.20, 6.20. Nice to see SL who didn't have such a bad evening himself, although I'll let him file his own race report.  Not sure if I grabbed a podium place as I was cooling down during the prize giving.

17/01/2013 at 22:28
Metronomic stuff Jools!

I was glad to get another MP session in this evening before the onset of snow Armegeddon. 14.7M w/ 12 @ 5:54 (so last week wasn't a fluke!) That's my lot for MP runs till Feb; will be shorter tempo or mile rep sessions in the mean time on Thursdays prior to a succession of weekend races. Looking forward to getting back on the road with the Chichester 10k.
M.
18/01/2013 at 07:05
Not a treadmill fan myself. I can do a few ks if I have to but I get bored really quickly. Luckily it's hardly ever bad enough weather to need one here. Certainly I'll never look like CW I that photo!!

Fingers crossed for all you Brass Monkeyers that the snow doesn't hang around too much and you get a race.

Very nice running there Jools.

Just a couple of easy sessions over the last two days for me. 70mins on Thurs and 55 mins today. We've got a long weekend here so lots of time to run and rest
M.
18/01/2013 at 07:11
PP - great session. We had a 2 hour course booked but I guess it'll be cancelled.
Jools - good run yesterday you looked very easy, there were some unclaimed bottles of wine so you may have "placed"
As Jools mentioned I also ran ran the Weston prom run. 5 miles in bang on 27 mins. Not as fast as I hoped but it was solo and on tired legs. It was part of a 14 miler so not sure the 6 miles beforehand helped, anyway it's all miles in the bank and the legs feel fine this morning
18/01/2013 at 07:46

My experience of using a treadmill seemed to involve lifting my feet up whilst the ground moved beneath my feet. Although it was possible to add an incline this seemed to change from leaning up hill slightly whilst lifting my feet up and down. It was not anything I would describe as running. 

When I have not been able to get outside and run I would rather do the spendid 100 up exercise routine http://hundredup.com/learn-georges-100-up-running-exercise/ to develop good running form. Something else that treadmills do not do

As a trail runner at heart that takes to tarmac to check pace on a flat and even surface. Treadmill running is  everything running should not be! Indeed I think anyone that includes treadmill miles in their training plans should do the decent thing and strike those treadmill miles from the record.Shuffling your feet on moving ground is not running :P

Edited: 18/01/2013 at 07:47
18/01/2013 at 08:05

OS - I think the ground does whizz past your feet when you lift them up running outdoors, unless you suddenly become stationary in mid-air? The only difference is air resistance, which is not that big when running. People say putting a 1% gradient on the treadmill replicates that, but I have no idea on the accuracy of that.

I don't mind treadmills myself, but I'm not a member of a gym at the moment so it's not an option. An easy run in the snow is always good fun though!

I can't imagine many races will be happening this weekend. Ours hasn't been cancelled yet, but given the forecast for this afternoon, I can't see it going ahead.

Jools and SL - very nice work in the 5Mer.

PP - another great MP session. Will be interesting to see what you can do at Chichester - I've always wanted to do that one due to the fast course and quality field.

Turbo for me last night. Time to go and see what Lance said last night!

TR
18/01/2013 at 09:27

Lance probably said he was just keeping up with the rest of them, its the rest of his antics he needs to answer.

SL and Jools - nice speeds there.

PP - more MP ! swapping to tempo's and mile reps should see you peak nicely by the end of Feb. But you should bag a fast time at Chichester. I have a number but doubt wether I'll be able to do it now, depends when I can get running again.

Turbo bagged, followed by a nice crunch through the snow on the MTB.

OS
18/01/2013 at 09:51
Padams wrote (see)

OS - I think the ground does whizz past your feet when you lift them up running outdoors, unless you suddenly become stationary in mid-air?

OK, maybe this was a really stupid thing to say, or maybe not.  The dynamics of running on a treadmill must be different, as the surface to some extent pulls your feet along, vs normal running where all of the energy is imparted by you. Is this ridiculous?   

Wouldn't it be good if we could erase all the liars and cheats from the record books and somehow reflect on the Obrees, Boardmans and the rest we didn't get to hear of who should have been contenders and heroes?

OS
OS
18/01/2013 at 09:54
TR wrote (see)

he was just keeping up with the rest of them

Robert Millar has nicely discussed how this 'level playing' field argument simply isn't true, as the degree of response to EPO is highly variable.  Also not everyone or every team was able to fund and manage it well, including bribing of officials when you go so far as to fail tests on three occasions, as it appears out Texan friend did (the steroid/ saddle sore story, the Tour de Suisse, and the retrospective testing of the 1999 samples for EPO)

Edited: 18/01/2013 at 09:55
OS
18/01/2013 at 10:01

Agree on the Lance/EPO thing. Having read a fair bit of stuff on it, including the latest David Walsh book and Tyler Hamilton's book, I really couldn't care less what LA now says - unless he implicates McQuaid and Verbruggen and the UCI gets a total overhaul (which it badly needs in my opinion).

Be interesting if he ends up facing perjury charges though - although I imagine his legal team will have somehow covered that before his public admission

18/01/2013 at 10:03

I seem to remember reading a vaguely technical paper saying that treadmill running is biomechanically different from normal running only in subtle ways, but that the main difference in terms of effort is the lack of wind resistance.  The belt on the treadmill is moving, which pulls your foot backwards.  So you need to drive forwards to overcome this and stay in the same place in the room, which is basically (but not exactly, but I'm not sure why) equivalent to you moving forwards outdoord whilst the ground stays where it is.

One other thing my layman's understanding of mechanics tells me is that treadmill running becomes relatively easier than outdoor running, the faster you run.  This is because air resistance is a function of your frontal area and therefore increases exponentially as speed increases linearly.  So speedwork on treadmills should be easier.  Or to put it another way, if one of the benefits you're trying to get from genuine speedwork is improving leg speed, a treadmill is a good shout because you can turn the legs over more quickly for a given effort.

(Waiting for CW, NtS or any other fred lab coats to pull out any obvious errors.)

18/01/2013 at 10:06

...SL - Your best bet for bang up-to-date reports from HH is twitter.  They will most likely post an update tomorrow morning itself.  And that's not a bad 5 mile time for a long warm-up!

18/01/2013 at 10:41

marmite - are runningwarehouse.com delivering to the UK again or are you getting them through an indirect method? I used to use them before but they stopped doing international shipping.

Wardi - funny you should say that as I've noticed I seem to feel a little sluggish for longer when starting back after a break since post knee-op (as a point of reference of age, rather than cause) than when I started running, though that could just be because I let it come more gradually now than before. Very nice session.

Very impressive splitting Jools! Well done.

Likewise, a very good time in the midst of heavy training SL!

PP - looking very good. I'd have thought if you can do 12m @ that pace in training this far out then MP must be quicker surely?

Padams - if the FH10 is cancelled is there any likelihood of it being rescheduled or is it more likely to be just binned?

I seem to have managed to get right back to it this week. Asthma is dramatically improved and I'll have managed my first 'ton-up' since pre-Berlin by the time I finish my second run today, and have just had it confirmed that my Berlin time was good enough for a #11 Irish ranking over the marathon for 2012 (ok, admittedly it just shows the lack of strength in depth, but a national ranking is still a national ranking! ), so it's been a good proper first week back training thus far 

Only decisions for this afternoon's run is whether to brave the treadmill, or do a Zatopek, strap on a pair of boots and go run around in woodland in snow fartlek style........ Part of my reluctance to get on the treadmill is that I don't know exactly what shape I'm in so it would be very easy to overdo it......

Edited: 18/01/2013 at 10:42
18/01/2013 at 10:42

As for Lance, there seems to be a belief that he is denying doping on his comeback as he hopes that his 8 year ban (what he could get it reduced to for co-operation) will be backdated to his last tour win in 2005 by admitting to doping until then, thereby leaving him compete in triathlons again almost straight away. I haven't seen the interview yet, but, from what I've read, it seems to be, as always, what's best for Lance and how he can work it to his advantage..........

18/01/2013 at 10:43

Nothing particularly interesting seems to have been said in the Lance interview as far as I can make out. Slightly surprised he admitted he bullied some people, but other than that it was basically what I expected.

PP - exactly, it's just the air resistance that is different. It's just a different frame of reference innit? Brings back good memories of studying relativity at uni.

OS - the whole "treadmill pulling you foot back" thing is exactly what happens outdoors too - you're moving forward relative to the ground i.e ground is moving backwards relative to you. That's why you don't want your foot hitting the ground in front of you (with the heel) which is just a brake effectively. Sometimes when I'm running outdoors I try to imagine I'm pushing along a treadmill without a motor.

I think there is a slight difference due to the motor/inertia etc. but I doubt that's very significant.

18/01/2013 at 11:01

TT - Getting back to 100+ so quickly is pretty impressive!  I'm in a happy place right now, not just in terms of fitness, but also because I don't have any big "round number" marathon targets in mind worth chasing, so I don't feel there's any pressure to do anything other than training at the right effort level and seeing what comes out. No doubt by the time I've got a couple of long road race results under my belt, and another handful of MP runs (including Finchley 20; current plan = 5 mile w/u + 15 @ MP) I'll have a very good idea of what I'm capable of, but it'll still be a prediction rather than a do-or-die target.  (He says!...)

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