Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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19/01/2013 at 10:52

good man Dan, here's to a 2:59 !

Marigold - whats the plan this time ? still including the 20M races with specific pace sections ? more or less total miles ? more or less key weeks etc ? there's lots of folks read these forums and are interested in what the fast folks do and you are as good as it gets on here.

SL - cheers

2hr turbo bagged, one of those days when you produce enough sweat to get wet enough to start getting cold again ! The nippers are on that big hill sledging again - shoul dcome in handy when they play in the Ashes !

19/01/2013 at 11:11

Should I be worried, I still seem to be a avatar-less this morning. Where's that flower Jools?

parkrun was a bit of an anti-climax this morning, it appears I'm still adapting to the increase in mileage and sessions over the last couple of weeks as after about 800m of "action" I could tell that my legs hadn't turned up for the party. Last mile split was slower than my tempo pace on Thursday. Worked hard though so all good.

Who's doing the 15k of fun that is the Southerns XC next Saturday, well up for it myself even though I won't be quite a competitive as I might have liked.

19/01/2013 at 11:16

Sorry TR , didn't see your question.

I'm going for the "icing first, cake last" approach in this build up, similar to my run in to the 50K which worked well for me so thought I'd give it a go for VLM as well.

That basically means I nonse about with the shorter/faster stuff until the Bath half with the one exception that I get my long run up to a good standard as well. Then I've got a 5 week intesenive MP phase , 2 week taper and bobs your uncle.

Fine details can be found here



19/01/2013 at 11:27


Marigold - what are you aiming for in London this year?

SL - that sounds like a nice 9m

Wardi - hope you an others get to run BM

Dan - I'm sure you'd do it fine if you were concentrating on a sub 3, won't you have to factor in all the Expo fatigue factor too though? Pretty knackering 3 days going into a marathon.

My workout today will be putting my walking boots on to walk down to St James' for the match!

Edited: 19/01/2013 at 11:47
19/01/2013 at 11:47

RS78 - Not greedy, a PB is all I want. If it's 1 second I'll happily take it but would be nice if it's a little more. Will probably be going for the same target I have done for the last 3 years which is sub 2:18 - one of these days I might just do it!

19/01/2013 at 11:56

20M for me at a rather plodtastic 8.23m/m; finally got to try out my Yaktrax and they work pretty damn well - once I'd decided I could trust them I was able to go on some of the icier stretches and go at 8m/m rather than 8.30m/m.  A tiring run as the snow was pretty deep in places, but so much better than the treadmill.

19/01/2013 at 12:09

20 miles on a Saturday Jools, keen or just busy tomorrow?

19/01/2013 at 12:15

Marigold - looks good. So the icing first with some hilly Purbeck long runs (easy pace I assume), then a block from around MMH time with a beast of a midweek session and some long runs with lots of MP in them. I guess that just doing 5 weeks of the top notch stuff prevents peaking too early and burning too many matches in Jan and Feb. Hope it works. Wont be doing the miles you do but planned a similar 6 week block of a midweeker medium run inc effort and then some flatter and more progressive long runs on the flat (instead of slow easy runs on the hill).. 

Jools - well played.

19/01/2013 at 12:20

TR - Purbeck runs are normally easy but can get a bit tasty for the last couple if we get a bit excited on the road back to the ferry! You doing MMH this year as part of your 6 week block?

19/01/2013 at 12:23

CW & AI_P - think I owe you chaps a drink for shoe and sizing recommendations. Got a pair of 212s delivered Friday and took them out for a test drive today. UNBELIEVABLE!!!! Felt like half man/half octopus, the traction is insane. Have become an instant fan of Inov-8. Have you tried any of their road shoes? Like the look of the road-x lite as a potential racing shoe, whadyareckon? Thanks again, very much appreciated, reckon a pair of 190s are on the cards for XC racing.

Wardi - damn that made me laugh.

19/01/2013 at 12:42

RS78 - fair point.  Can't do much about that though.

FFS, I'm sat here in London, waiting for news on whether the BM is on or not so that I can jump in the car and start the drive up north.  Will go out for a long run this afternoon here if not, but with no news yet I'm getting restless.

19/01/2013 at 12:46

Marigold: going to London tomorrow for lunch and then the matinee of Sleeping Beauty at Sadler's Wells, and so definitely no time for a 20 miler.  It'll be sparrowfart even to get 8M in (last run left on the schedule for this week) because I want to get an early train just in case the weather causes delays.

19/01/2013 at 12:48

Marigold - running for the ferry might be needed sometimes though. Not sure about MMH yet ? Might do it if the special one comes out to play, if not I might do the Salisbury 10 for a change. Dont think it'd be good manners to do the MMH10 instead of the 20, as I understand it the 10 is for novices.

looks like mmmmarmite is happy with his new scoobies

DanA - hopefully you'll get a decision soon. The 10K I was supposed to be doing tomorrow is going ahead as they expect it to thaw a bit more, but its to be done "at your own risk" !

19/01/2013 at 13:46

Brass Monkey is officially OFF!  Shame really. 

Edited: 19/01/2013 at 13:46
19/01/2013 at 13:53
Dan - Perfect excuse for sensible pacing this time so a sub-3 London Marathon should be a shoe-in!

Marigold - I'm bang up for the Southern. Kind of hoping Ronnie O'Sullivan shows up cos I've got a score to settle and I'm quicker than five years ago.

Good work Jools!

I've also had a long Saturday, originally scheduled so that we could include some MP and still recover well for a hard session on Tuesday. As it was, conditions were probably a blessing as we took it easy, and I've done enough MP this week. 22 miles in the snow @ 7:26 still a damn good time-on-feet effort.
19/01/2013 at 14:36

Welcome back Marigold, and the parkrun was impressive by mortal standards.

Dan -- now that's an incentive to get it right!

mmmarrrmite -- excellent, glad you're pleased :- ) -- now you can see why I don't bother with spikes in XC races. These babies were just invented for anything multiterrain, too, as they're reasonably quick on the hard stuff. That can be good in XC where there is some hard path available and all the spike-wearers have to forego it. I did eventually flatten the studs on my first 212s, which are now retired as leisure shoes, but to be fair I did 1000 miles on them. I'm keeping my 190s in top nick for races. As for road shoes, I got on so well with the 212s that I was really excited to get some Road X-Lite 155s... but actually I found the soles were too thin for me on the outer edge of the ball of my foot (where I land kind of badly), and grip can be iffy too. Here are some fresh weight measurements BTW:
   XTalon 212 size 10, nearly new: 250g
   XTalon 190 size 10, still in good nick: 232g
   XLite 155 size 9.5, bit worn: 176g
   Adizero Hagio size 10, bit worn: 180g (advertised 6 oz in size 9 or 170g)
-- it's fair enough that bigger sizes are heavier, but I've noticed the Inov8's in my size are heavier than the quoted (size 8?) weight by a bigger margin than other manufacturers. My ASICS Pirhana SP3 were bang on the advertised 136g.

The 212s were the shoe of choice for me again today; we've just had 1 or 2 cm of soft snow in Cambridge, but my ankle seems happier off-road too. It felt OK so I did a similar run to PP, 23M @ 7:16 average, this time 30 laps of Parkers' Piece -- was pretty obvious where I'd been by the time I finished -- though I livened it up by doing multiple-of-3 laps a bit harder for a while (like a game of FizzBuzz), so I had 5x0.7M@6:38/M in there. Felt a bit hypo (sugar not temperature) and my legs were peculiarly reluctant for a short time afterwards, so it felt like I was really provoking the glyco-depleted marathon endurance systems at last. I'll want that kind of run to feel totally humdrum in a couple of months.

19/01/2013 at 14:59

mmmmarrmite -- meant to say (probably have before), I was actually shouted at in the street last year by a bloke who said I was being reckless -- he was skidding around struggling to stay upright, and I went past him at 6:30/M in the 212s

You can get too cocky though. While they're great on any icy stuff that has a bit of 'give', you can still come acropper (sp?) on glassy ice, which I did a couple of years back (breaking my finger). Hence the standing family joke about Dad's magic shoes being absolutely infallible until he spectacularly falls over...

Will be interested to hear how Jools' elasticated brillo-pad grippy things go.

19/01/2013 at 15:17

Oh, and you can see what an English Marigold looks like here:

I like the fact it's pretty close to the colour Marigold likes to dye his hair...

19/01/2013 at 16:39

Nice long runs Joolska and PhilPub.

My 10k tomorrow at Dorney Lake was called off yesterday, so have adjusted my weekend plans to a 10 miler today which I have just done, nice and steady in 7.55's a mile. Then plan to do a long run tomorrow as substitute for my race.

It's not actually too bad under foot here in London. Pavements are fairly good, just the odd bit of slush where you have to watch your footing a bit.

It's a shame that the the weather has affected quite a few races. Hope its not going to drag on for too long!

19/01/2013 at 17:02

Great running everyone. Charlie sounds like a tough session. I hope I can make 06:30 pace at distance feel easy at some stage this year.  Begining to think it might not be April before this happens, but not giving up for April just yet.

Steady 18 mile in heavy snow running on trails. Ran with a friend who is aiming for a sub 3 and showed him my long off road route. Ended up running a little slower than I planned, but a very enjoyable run in the snow. 

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