Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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20/01/2013 at 20:41

CW - I find it very comforting to find a fellow shoe-weighing anorak Thanks for the info on the X-Talon 190s and the X-Road Lite. So I guess my next question is what do you rate as the lighest racing shoe that youve found to work well? 30 laps is hugely impressive/totally nuts. Thanks for the andecdote regarding being called "reckless", had a similar experience yesterday. You're advice about "ice-running" is sound, that's the one surface I've found to be slick even with the 212s on my feet.

Al_P - totally agree, they "just got it right". Thanks again, you and CW saved my arse this weekend and converted me to the possibility of being able to run outside when the conditions are "lethal". Nice progressive run.

20/01/2013 at 21:25

I too started listing people... but everyone's done well this weekend. Were you kidding about the follow-on 12M Dan? (Wouldn't put it past you.) And nice one on the overdistance run AndyD.

Day off for me with my long one yesterday, but I'll be run-commuting in the snow tomorrow with a bulging Monday rucksack (clothes + food + laptop, this time) first thing.

mmmarmite -- my best light racing shoes were New Balance RC152s, but they stopped making them. The ASICS Pirhana SP3 are really light but give me sore feet. The Adizero Hagio I used for VLM and am pretty happy with, but they're noticeably heavier than some others. So I'm still searching. I liked the sound of the New Balance MRC1600 (aimed at marathons but 164g) and also their lighter bretheren, the 5000 (91g!!). Both confusingly labelled 'spike' on their homepage. Anyone tried them?

Ahhhh... the size 10s... on my 5'7", 29" inside leg frame.... well... my first ever pair of racers were size 9, and I felt guilty about how much faster they made me than my old trainers, but they squashed my toes a bit. (I've not bought any sensible shoes for years, but 8.5 or 9 were OK.) So ever since I've erred on the side of caution. Holding out hope I might grow into them perhaps :- )

20/01/2013 at 21:49

More snow running today while it's possible to run in daylight. 11 miles in Yaktrax. Back to the dreadmill tomorrow though and praying the forecast snow doesn't arrive overnight. 

20/01/2013 at 22:18
CW - such good fun running in the snow; 12 very enjoyable miles. Usual weekend is 20-22 on Sat then 10-12 on Sun. Occasionally an easy 5 miles on Sat evening too. Do most have a day off the day after a long run? I'd be bored on Sunday without it tbh.

AP - great 10k in these conditions.
20/01/2013 at 22:47
DanA - I've usually taken Monday off after Sunday LSR, but for this year I've tried 4m very easy and it does seem to set me up better for the Tuesday track session.
21/01/2013 at 01:31
Hangover 10m today brought weekly total to a nice round 100m.

What's with the Inov8 shit? Are they this year's Aussie carbo-load fad? Can't say I've ever noticed any significant difference between different trainers apart from weight. I just buy Mizuno Precision because they are a lightweight trainer that I can just train and race in and get for under ??60 online. i used to buy whatever neutral was on offer from Decathlon and some lightweight ones for races that I had for years. I used to run/race in a pair of Puma from the Macro bargain bucket.

I suppose growing up as a golfer means I've seen all sorts of essential "wonder gear" that's come (and gone)....Zebra putters, Ping irons etc. All generally marketing bollox and funny to watch duffers splash out loads of money for absolutely no difference.
21/01/2013 at 01:33
Ps, I've been running down the cycle lanes instead of icy pavements.
21/01/2013 at 07:44

Dan -- ah, I messed up. I thought you did the long one yesterday (Sun) morning, and were planning the 12M in the afternoon as a double...

LD -- the magic is in the grip. Two years ago I was phoning round gyms asking about pay-as-you-go treadmill sessions when the snow fell, until I tried running in the XTalons. It really is very good indeed, and makes the difference between training pretty much as normal outdoors -- or not.

Seem to have broken this editor with an inadvertent Ctrl-key combo, not sure if this will be legible)...)

21/01/2013 at 08:18

Blisters - great news, always nice to have a nice surprise like that!

Andy D - impressive. Had you planned such a long run or did it just turn out that way?

Nice long runs by plenty of others too.

I went out on Saturday morning with the Fred Hughes 10 race director and seveal others and ran the course, so he could decide whether to cancel the race or not. Within about 400m there was a unanimous decision! It's all on country lanes, so although it was just about OK for jogging, really not good for running fast. Good decision as it snowed all day yesterday and would have been even worse. We did about 13M at around 8 min/mile.

Then 1:45 on the turbo yesterday including 3x20mins "comfortably hard".

Marigold - I'm running the Southerns, although I won't be troubling you (or PP for that matter I suspect).

Cheerful Dave    pirate
21/01/2013 at 09:02

Dids, I don't know about you, but I find that while the Precisions are great road shoes, they're absolute pants on anything remotely wet & muddy, and on snow they're even worse.  For that I use Mizuno Harriers, which are basically a Precision with a knobbly sole (not unlike the Inov8 ones).

21/01/2013 at 09:52

AW - Well done for getting the 20M in despite the weather, definitely be getting more aerobic resistance training out of it, even if the pace is lower than normal.

CW amd Marmite - I've got the New Balance MRC1600s, used them for the 10k yesterday in fact. Raced up to HM in them and think they could be a contender for marathoning. Very light, comfy (IMO) and with pretty of outsole rubber so should have good durability in that department. A bit more cushioned than the Hagio, which I'm yet to get on with (mid sole is too firm for my liking). The New Balances are quite narrow (of the pointy performance ilke) though. Also got a lowish (6mm) heel to toe offset which I like.

Non-shoe geeks look away now .... My running shoe spread sheet compares the specs of most of the racing models, as well as  more minimal end of the spectrum, plus XC/trail and general purpose light weight. Can't remember who asked for a link to download it (definitely not Dids ), if either of you would like a copy send me a message, I find it a very useful for doing a quick comparsion of different shoes. As much of the data a possible is normalised by using the website, which provides all the key measurements (heel/toe stack heights, weight). I try and keep it updated regularly and add in future models whilst keeping the current ones so it's possible to see how different shoes change/develop from year to year.

21/01/2013 at 11:12

Shoe-talk? Must bookmark this page in case I ever start to suffer with insomnia. I ran in the snow on Saturday and the shoe selection was based on turning 3 or 4 pairs sole side up having a quick squint and deciding which ones seemed to have the most rugged grip.  Other than the fact they had some red on them (all my scoobeis do) I've got no idea what they were and I stayed upright without any problems.  Crikey some of you lot really enjoy making something incredibly simple into something out of Coro-world.

They say there is no such thing as inappropriate weather for training just inappropriate clothing.  I beg to differ after enduring several hours on the bike yesterday, culminating in frozen bottles (to match my hands and feet) - seems like the Brass Monkey took advantage of his day off and travelled South.  I went past him in the Forest and even he was wearing bloody gloves!

 As you Brrrr.

21/01/2013 at 11:23

Al_P - Now, don’t get me wrong. I have had the kitchen scales out and weighed my trainers. I’m very definitely concerned about the weight of my trainers – especially the ones I race in. I’ve just not ever noticed the difference between a methaabsorb last with hi-tension bar support and whatever alternative “system” someone else has to offer.  Not noticed it, cos there ain't any.

Charlie - You may notice that my avatar is the classic “Lawrence Ripple” cross training shoe of the late 1970s. Believe me, when these babies came out and I finally got a pair and was able to do a race across the muddied fields of Lawnswood without slipping about, my life was practically transformed. Especially because I was the last boy to have a pair, so an end to the ridicule my plimsolls invoked. So, I know the pleasures of better grip.

CD - Not noticed any grip issues with Mizuno – but then I live in Manchester. No snow here ever, just drizzle 365 days a year.

(And I have, to the best of my shite memory, only ever fallen down once when running (when I tripped over a tree branch). Maybe I’m overly wussy, or blessed with the balance and poise of Eddie Gray?)

Finally, one man’s pander to a useless fad is another man’s life passion. I’m afraid I can’t go into a coffee shop and get a coffee. I have to give them about 5 bullet points of instructions, ask the barista why he/she didn’t tamp anywhere near firmly enough then complain afterwards. At home I have been known to strip down the insides of my Gaggia in order to adjust the pressure valve in search of that perfect shot, then surf the web dreaming of a La Pavoni – sure that will make me happier.

21/01/2013 at 12:14
Lord Didsbury wrote (see)

At home I have been known to strip down the insides of my Gaggia in order to adjust the pressure valve in search of that perfect shot, then surf the web dreaming of a La Pavoni – sure that will make me happier.

Not an activity I am familiar with.  Does it make you go faster?

21/01/2013 at 12:15
The glove has arrived...... Obviously Mr "check for dodgy Avatars" only works Mon-Fri - very slack!
I have to say the only other model of trainers I have other than my Fastwitch (of which I have a cupboard full waiting their turn) is a pair of Inov-8's. Not sure on the model but they do have considerably more grip than the Saucony's so they got a rare outing over the Purbecks yesterday.
For everything else from an 8m/m jog to a 5k race the Fastwitch get the nod.
21/01/2013 at 13:30

Padams/PP - Hopefully might be able to bump into you amongst the 1000's on Saturday - will keep an eye out for Padams head and shoulders above everyone else

My weekly summary for those interested, note quite up to TT's mileage but my first week over a 100 since early October so more than happy.

Weekly Summary - 20/01/13

21/01/2013 at 13:35

........ that's annoying - Twitter rumours suggesting Southerns may already be on the cards to be cancelled

21/01/2013 at 13:51

LD - Totally agree on the dislike of 'marketing' BS associated with shoes, utter waste of time designed purely to sucker people into spending more money on shoes with more 'features'. Right now for me it's still a case of finding the shoes I like, I was sold on the Adidas Adios 1s for racing, then they were'upgraded' to the mk2 which feels completely different and I really don't like them. I hunted down a pair of mk1's after they were discontinued just so I have a pair to keep me going through marathons until a worthy successor is found.

Marigold - Good to hear you're starting to return to form  nice glove btw...

Edited: 21/01/2013 at 13:52
21/01/2013 at 14:38

There's another great reason to hang fire and spurn the latest gear changes until the point when something has to be done, and one I first witnessed with my old man. He'd played with the same set of rusty golf clubs for 25 years and decided it was time to test drive some new irons. On the second tee, a par 3, he took a 5 iron as normal, but this time the newer model (to his great pleasure in the circumstances) sent the ball miles over the green and out of bounds.

Sheer ecstasy was written all over his face, as he suddenly saw a brighter future.

I felt the same when I stopped running on roads in plimsols in the late 80s and got a pair of cheapo trainers with some lovely cushioning under my feet. It was if I was floating on air, and shortly after was inspired to train for my first marathon.

(Ditto when I had cause to play footy last May and had to buy some boots. Got some new fangled Umbros for £10 from JJB, and could barely believe it. It was like I was playing in slippers. What a feeling compared to my twenty year old feet multilating boots. )

And that's not the end of the potential thrills to come, when the time is right......Got a cooker from the 1970s at home, (a little white thing with a grill that sort of loops over the gas rings) that's somehow been used for xmas dinner for 12 people before now, a 28 inch telly that protrudes about 6 feet due to it's old fashioned CRT ... and should I ever get desperate and become a gay golfer again, my clubs are now 29 years old.

21/01/2013 at 16:57

Padams - Yes, it was planned rather than poor navigation. I needed 24 to hit 70 for the week and hadn't run the day before so thought I'd try overdistance for a change. More for novelty rather than part of any masterplan.

Al_P - That sounds like impressive shoe geekery. However, do you have anything in there to compare the aesthetic qualities of the shoes? Surely a key attribute, particularly of racing shoes, is how cool they look. Interested on your comments on the Adios though, I have two pairs of 1's on the go and was thinking about getting the 2's. May need to find somewhere to try them on first.

It's also the Northerns XC this weekend. The venue is Knowsley Safari Park. Hopefully by the time the senior men's race starts the lions will be full up!

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