Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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22/01/2013 at 20:20

Sx9 - PnD know their onions, follow the weeks as the plan details them.

I think safety was the issue with that XC as it was pretty rutted, cut up and waterlogged and now all thats frozen. Wont bother me as Unattached Harriers don't send a team ! 

22/01/2013 at 20:49
Lovely conditions for a interval session on the prom tonight...... A real pleasure and was in no way questioning what the hell we were all doing there

Struggled a bit with the 6min / 4 x 90s / 6min / 4 x 90s session and really lacked that extra bit of motivation for the ones into the wind!

Good turn out for sub 3 thread participation though with Al P , Clearly (doing some tempo) and the stunning return of CRAB....... made it all worthwhile!

Welcome Simon, I follow quite a strict 2 weeks up / one week down routine with about 75% for the down week., keeps the general fatigue levels from building too much and I also find it helpful mentally to break my campaign up into blocks of 3 weeks.
22/01/2013 at 21:21

Meant to say, hope to see LJ and Jools at the Midlands XC.

22/01/2013 at 21:28

Sx9: I did 3:13 then followed P&D 55-70 the following year and managed 3 seconds under 3hrs. I've used the up to 85mi since and pb'd a couple of times but didn't make the start line once. They're popular schedules with a sensible 3 week taper.

Just about 5 weeks into the schedule now, couple of niggles niggling but getting fitter. Managed to do 20 with an attempted 10 at MP on Sunday; think it came out at 6.20m/m against a target of 6.15m/m but it was bloody cold and into a slight breeze for most of it along the seafront so happy overall. Just realised it's the Bath Half in about 6 weeks so better have half an eye on that.

22/01/2013 at 21:31

Welcome Simon, perceived wisdom reckons you need to be nearer 1:23 for a half to convert to 2:59.  No matter, you have made decent progress from 1:28 to 1:24 in the space of 2 years so more room for improvement (unless you're about 60 years old! )

Sounds like a good thread evening out Marigold, even if only part wind assisted!

AW.. 20 x 400 is some session on the canal bank.  Did you have to jump over any fishing rods?

TR.. good luck with that knee, I'm sure the cold weather dosen't help with niggles.

Nice treadie sessions TT & OS.

Sorry to hear the Southerns have been cancelled already, bizarre.

4m on the treadie early doors, 7m on slush & soft snow tonight.

22/01/2013 at 21:47
PP-Missed your offer earlier (but did spot coach Ken on way there - those guys are dedicated!)

Anyway, we found a dryish slope and a snowy trail and had a good session. So that's ??2.45 track fees saved!

LD - Agree about the way XC was seen as a punishment for not playing rugby.
22/01/2013 at 21:57

Thanks for the welcomes and thanks Wardi for the 'perceived wisdom', sounds about right to me. 1:28:56 was actually my pb till September. Reckon I could do sub 1:24 on a flat half now, Hastings isn't flat by any means but the up is in the first half so I'm hopeful for that in a couple of months, but whatever happens I'm in the 3h ballpark and will be gunning for 2:59  - what would be the point in pacing for 3:02!


Well done to anyone doing dreadmill - I couldn't bear it -   luckily the snow here isn't as bad as elsewhere.

22/01/2013 at 22:02
Yes indeed 'the big man is back' Rooney-stylee was the shout at BAC (not) on this fine evening. Days like today when you've got to be grateful to live by the seaside...if you like horizontal sleet. Thought it couldn't get worse and then someone (not Clearly) started waxing lyrical about trainers on the way back to the club. Crikey and I thought the running was painful.

Well it's a start.

As you were.
22/01/2013 at 22:13
SX9 - Impossible to know whether you can sub3, but you are showing the commitment. If your recent HM improvement was off substantially less training then I'd say that you can expect a substantial improvement at Hastings which should give you the confidence to push on. I actually got reasonable times at Hastings as I think the profile encourages you to hold some back for the second half and it repays with long downhill stretches and a long flat run in (whihch cab seem to go on forever! I think 55-70 is quite high mileage, so don't worry about backing off a bit - especially if you need to clear up a niggle.
22/01/2013 at 23:57

Wardi - Dipping back into the dim and distant past for a moment.  The first time that I started following any thread on RW was when you were one of the super 6 aiming for a sub-3 with Steve training you.  I remember him banging on about speedwork to you at the time and IIRC you got a nice PB out of the whole thing.  Does what he did continue to have any impact on how you train today? 

MrB - Good to hear that training is going well after the disruption towards the end of last year.  Out of curiosity did you consider changing to a different training plan?

TR - Hope the knee sorts itself out soon

Simon - Welcome to the thread - not much point in pacing a 3:02 but if you run to effort levels, give it all you've got and end up there it's a result to be proud of.  Assuming that there's progression in your training levels then a 1:24 half leading into a training plan will probably give you sub-3 at least on a good day.  1:24 6 weeks out would be a different story.

OS - Impressive dedication to your core.  Have you got a set routine or do you change it depending on what you think needs targeting?  I'm always on the look out for new ideas because I need to do the work but struggle with the monotony of it.

It's training in the bank but I can't say that I enjoyed tonight.  I ended up in the bath probably for the first time since I was a kid - it was the only way to defrost.  Made the schoolboy error of not bringing my rain jacket (by the way Mr. B I have still got yours - one of these days I'll get it back to you) and paid the price with some very red skin.


23/01/2013 at 00:33

Clearly.. one slight correction - I pre-date the 'Super Six'!  In 2008 I was one of the delightfully titled 'Dream Team' - and only 4 of us!  I was more of a 'lots of miles with the occasional race' sort of runner.  Steve got me doing some quality work (and being fresh-ish for it) 5 x 1m, 3 x 2m sort of thing.  It certainly bore fruit and as you say got me a PB.  No marathon for me 'til Autumn this year so at the moment I'm doing circa 50m a week with the odd Parkrun and a weekly speed session.  Hoping a summer of faster stuff/races will set me up for a decent autumn marathon campaign - I'm still keeping on defiantly, I'll be 56 come my next marathon!

Great to see you out running again, as Rod Stewart once said - an old raincoat never lets you down.   Good to see Mr Boat training well too.

CRAB.. do tell, what do your trainers weigh??

23/01/2013 at 01:54

Clearly: I did consider trying a different plan but I'm a creature of habit. I will tweak the plan this time though as I've noticed that a couple of times I developed calf/achiles problems at about 6 weeks out when the plan calls for 5K pace intervals of up to 1600m. I'm going to try running these at 10K pace ( I was thinking about that jacket the other day; Bath 2011 I rush). Must have been a difficult session on the seafront last night; did my 10 miles at 0830 and got in just as the wind and rain started to build.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
23/01/2013 at 08:43

Yesterday's run didn't go quite as planned: lunchtime had to be aborted after work took over so I thought I'd get some miles in while junior was at his club session.  Turns out I need to check emails more because that was cancelled, but since he was there he could join in with an older group who were using a field rather than the track which was iced over.  So I ended up doing 10k's worth of laps of the same field, CW-style.  Not quite the dashing up and down the prom that the posh boys were doing, though.

23/01/2013 at 08:52

Crab turned up to a club session? Blimey. I'm sure that was a pleasure for all involved!

Last night for me was 7M at the club including some hill reps in the snow, and then circuits. Feel reasonably recovered from the ultra, but my upper body has become feeble (could barely manage 20 press-ups at circuits).

23/01/2013 at 10:23

Padams Probably fair to say the general noise level went up as much as the quality of the running went down as a result of my presence.  Obviously I prefer to think of it as  BAC turned up to one of my sessions but I get your point ;o)

It would appear taking around 90secs off the fastest mile pace you've run at for ~5months is as good a way as any to knock the skin off the old Ambrosia.

There's a lot of point pacing for a 3:02 if you're not capable of 2:59...trouble is you won't truly know until you see Tower Bridge...for the 2nd time!

Guess the Wyke Wanderer's still on the hit and miss in the midlands!

As you were. 

23/01/2013 at 12:03

Like Clearly I left the rain jacket off for last night's session, and was suffering badly from the decision by the end... downwind on the prom was ok, but the upwind reps were nasty! Still managed to averaged 5:32/M for the 6mins and 5:08/M for the 90secs. Felt mildly hypothermic on the way back to the car. Definitely a session that will make others feel so much better! Good to meet you CRaB, apologies for inflicting shoe chat pain on you (but you did ask what I was wearing and they were red ). Session sandwiched between 6M & 8M easy on Monday and today.

Welcome to Simon - Would only agree with the sound advice you've had despensed so far...

Good treadmill session from TT, double day from Wardi, a lot of quality canalside reps from AW, well done Jools for getting the run in (the weather seems to suit running in circles at the moment!) and TR hope your knee recovers soon.

23/01/2013 at 12:43

Blimey, I bet BAC didn't know what had hit them when the Thread turned up last night.  Sounds like lovely weather - we simply had heavy snow, albeit it didn't settle too much.

14M for me in said snow this morning; slipped at 12M and left hip/glute tightened ominously (could only jog home) but nothing is sore when prodded and it feels ok after a decent stretch so touch wood no damage done.

Welcome SX9.  Nowt to add to the sage thread advice dolled out so far.

23/01/2013 at 12:53

Welcome to the thread Simon. I am following a similar plan and mileage. Given the inclement weather, I am  struggling to meet my mileage plan. But I am trying to make sure I run at least 55 miles a week during January.

I only ran one HM last year at 01:25, managed to bag a sub 3 of that. Hoping to do more speed work  this year and try and push closer to 01:20 or below for HM. Not a clue if this is possible as I have not been running for that long, despite being an old(ish) fart and a Granddad

I find this thread scary and inspiring, as you get people suggesting times and mileage rates that currently feel beyond me. But it as only 3 years ago that I set of my first 10km hoping to run it in under 45 minutes, who knows what might be possible with some more structured training than I have followed so far.

Edited: 23/01/2013 at 13:00
23/01/2013 at 14:33

Things hotting up on the Strava Worldwide Run As Many Miles in January As You Can challenge.

I am currently ranked #14 in the whole world. Yes, the WHOLE WORLD!

Unfortunately I am behind some American bird who grinds out 18 miles a day @ 9.50/m pace. (Clearly she needs to get some housework done). There's a bloke from Herts in 3rd place who is also getting loads of miles from a crap pace.

However, the person in the lead (who hasn't actually run since Sunday) has done a massive 483 miles in the last 23 days at an average pace of about 14 min/mile. He's a aged vegan.

Not that I'd wish injury on anyone, but I hope everyone above me gets injured.

23/01/2013 at 14:51

LD - Maybe you should email Strava and seek clarification on what pace constitutes 'running'. If you can't beat them and they haven't got the misfortune to get injured, get them DQ'd on a technicality.

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