Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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27/01/2013 at 14:00

An easy 19.5 miles today, with a hard six into a tough wind late on. 107 for the week puts me into 10th place on the Strava greatest runner in the WORLD competition. (A few yanks might leapfrog me later on today).

27/01/2013 at 14:50

Well survived, LJ/Jools/CC2/marmite. Character-building stuff.

Good long runs, esp yours PP, quantity and quality there.

TR -- I didn't have a half marathon race today, I just wanted to do some more half-oriented training, as I have one on 10 Mar and while my endurance is already pretty good, my speed since Xmas has been laughable. So slightly like Al_P I put some speed (such as it is) into my long run today, with 5x0.5M hard (5:37/M), 0.5M light, then 10M hard steady (only 68 min/ 6:48/M) and a few more, total 20.1M in 1hr18 (6:53/M). The speed may not be there, but it was an encouragingingly comfortable run overall, and the ankle is still OK.

27/01/2013 at 15:35

Nice long run there Charlie and impressive mileage by LD.

All the snow's been washed away here too. Just done 21m on knackered legs to bring up 70 for the week. The last 4 weeks have all been over 70 so time for a cutback week and massage.

27/01/2013 at 15:42

Afternoon all, just finished reading through some very impressive training. Very jealous of those able to XC yesterday, frustrating to hear conditions were probably good enough for the Southerns. I did see from Facebook though that Dave Norman ended up in hospital with frostbite after his outing at the Northern XC, hard bastards up there obviously!

My long run had a suspiciously similar end result to PP's with 24 miles in just under 2:44 although I think mine was even more un-even with the pace. First 12 miles average 7:40m/m up the Purbeck hills in mud and 30mph winds followed by a 2nd 12 miles at 5:58m/m on the rather more pleasant sheltered roads!

Legs are still adapting to the gradual mileage build up this week shown by the fact I just managed to beat target MP for my parkrun yesterday!

27/01/2013 at 15:50

TR - hope the knee comes good and you get to do the 10k. Good effort getting 18 in the bag.

PP - tasty 24 miler.

LD - big week, how many "ton-ups" are you planning prior to London (I'm assuming that's your aim?).

CW - quality 20, looks like a cross between a Canova session and a Pfitzinger run.

Al_P - cracking long run, classic Canova. Are you planning the 3 x 3M as part of the long run? Canova also has a 3 x 3M "aerobic power" workout but that's done at 103-104% MP. So I assume that you're doing the Canova "specific phase" right now? Which marathon are you aiming for?

LJ, Jools, CC2 - well done on finishing the Midlands XC, it was apocalyptic

Andy D - good going at the Northerns, sounds a lot like the Midlands. Nice 21 to round out a solid week.

Cracking photo Tim.

ZaTTu - thought you might get that reference

Marigold - quality 24 miler.

Edited: 27/01/2013 at 15:52
27/01/2013 at 15:54
TB - nice pic. Think your legs hurting might be more to do with the fact you've been slipping around and using your smaller balancing muscles more than usual so they are sore. Running off-road in good conditions normally seems to be easier on your legs, a bit like Dids' treadmill.

Great long runs from PP, TB, Charlie, LD and Marigold.

Belated and early happy birthdays to Speedy and Zattu.

20 for me this morning, wet and muddy again, haven't looked at time yet but it was an easy rather than quick one. Having been on a grand total of 4 miles for the week after Tuesday I've managed to get up to a respectable 75 for the week and will hopefully get the mileage higher again next week.
27/01/2013 at 15:57
Marigold. wrote (see)

Dave Norman ended up in hospital with frostbite after his outing at the Northern XC

Haha, seriously? I hadn't seen that. I started to lose some feeling in my feet halfway round the first lap after a patch of icy water but fortunately(?) they recovered enough to feel cold and wet for the rest of the race.

27/01/2013 at 15:59
Marmite - likewise, was a good experience. From looking at the results I think we finished quite close, shame we didn't meet.
27/01/2013 at 16:01

ANdy - Yep pretty certain he wasn't joking. Also rather interestingly he finished 7th for the 6th time

27/01/2013 at 16:31
Sorry Andy D, missed off your long run, good effort at the northerns yesterday too.
27/01/2013 at 16:48

I've found this thread interesting to read for a while now and just wanted to ask for some advice based on people's experiences for what half marathon time to aim for.

I'm doing the Cambridge half marathon on 10th March so should hopefully be a nice quick course and had originally been thinking around 78-80 mins or so, however training has been going particularly well recently - last tempo run (including some snowy cross country) fairly comfortable at 5:50 pace over 9 miles and 13.1 miles in 83 mins on a moderately quick long run.

I don't really have any flat road races to work off, having mainly been doing cross country over the winter and feeling a fair bit quicker than anything before then and with 6 weeks to go should hopefully be able to keep improving.

Thanks for any advice, did a nice steady 15 miles today averaging 6:35 with some interesting muddy bits after all the snow melted having had a fairly hard week so not pushing it too much.

27/01/2013 at 17:13

RS I am not a member of a running club. I used to be a member of Birtley AC and now sometimes train with the Sunderland Strollers. I am thinking that I should rejoin a club as I used to get in at least two proper quality speed sessions a week there.  I am based in Washington. I think I am now understanding better that quality speed work is an important part of marathon training. 

Are most members of the forum a member of a running club? I think I am probably missing out by not being a member of a club.

CC2 - if you can navigate your way to Blaydon, there is a nice track up the railway line towards Consett or head down to the sea front and run towards South Shields is a nice route.

27/01/2013 at 17:15

bufo802 - A "fairly comfortable 5:50 pace" for 9 miles would suggest that is closer to your marathon pace rather than half pace.

My guess is if you continue to progress like you already have then you'll be looking more like 72-73min for a half in 6 weeks (pure speculation based off your single post and the info in it )

I would suggest doing some 4-6 mile runs at around 5:30m/m and see how it feels. If it is hard but not flat out then this would be a good indicator that it's in the right ball park for your half pace. If you can manage 10k at that pace in training on your own during the build up and then taper for the Cambridge Half - you'll have a pretty damn good chance of maintaining that pace over 13.1

Edited: 27/01/2013 at 17:16
27/01/2013 at 17:36

Some great training and racing going on this weekend - particularly the Midland XC runners and several people managing LRs on 20M+ with lots of MP sections in.

My "long run" yesterday was 15M at about 8 m/m, although most of it was in evil slush (got very wet and cold feet!), so it felt harder than that! Then an interesting bike ride this morning - for the first 45 mins we were cycling in rivers until we decided that more major roads were sensible. As we went over the top of Dunstable Downs (highest point around here), a hailstorm started along with some of the worst crosswinds I've ever experienced on a bike - I was blown about 6ft sideways several times. Once we got off that hill the sun came out and the rest of the ride was good fun - an hour into the wind followed by an hour with the wind. I managed to hit 40mph bridging across to the group ahead at one point with the wind behind, and it was only slightly downhill!

27/01/2013 at 17:45

LD about your running twice in a day. I am going to push more for this. I cycle to work and  and used to sweat at first, need to change etc. Now I don't break sweat and it is almost too easy. So will try and see if I can get somewhere near this with my running. 

27/01/2013 at 17:52

Marigold - maybe fairly comfortable isn't quite right, meant I could have kept going but was working fairly hard, though on the road sections was doing 5:45 (had some hilly/snowy bits which were slower) so maybe will try 5:40 next time.

Thinking 72-73 would be rather hopeful but was thinking of possibly aiming towards 75mins.

Edited: 27/01/2013 at 17:53
27/01/2013 at 18:28

Bufo802 - make sure you go for a more half specific tempo session though so don't attempt to do more than 10k of tempo. Up the intensity so that at the end of the 10k you are really working hard. If you are able to run further than 10k for a tempo run then that pace is slower than your potential half marathon pace when tapered with a number on (In my opinion)

 

......... and for those that have time on their hands - my weekly summary

Edited: 27/01/2013 at 18:36
OS
27/01/2013 at 19:03
PhilP. Some just cracking training going on. May I ask two questions? Firstly how long is it since you have been back training full-on since your surgery? Secondly are you now running better than before? Cheers.
OS
27/01/2013 at 20:30
Well done to all who braved the Northern XC, sounded horrendous muddy fun Great long running from PP, Marigold, Andy D, LJ, Dids and CW.

Marmite - My target marathon is London. I'm doing the Canova 'Fundemental' phase at the mo, up to the Wokingham 1/2 in two weeks, after that I'm going to blend into the (MP) "specific" phase. Then the plan is to start doing some of the MP heavier sessions whilst doing a few more weeks of BAC Tuesday night prom speedwork. As it happens I'm contemplating doing that 3x3M session this week as a HM training workout (version of the workout I have says 103-107%, but I doubt I'll be troubling the 107% end of the scale). Ps sent you a message about the shoe spreadsheet, send me one back with an email address and I'll send you a link to the Dropbox folder it lives in.

6.5M easy today, it was very easy as I'm at the in-laws in Devon and the hills tend to keep the pace/effort of easy runs down. 70M for the week, I'm not intending to extend the mileage much beyond that for this campaign (already at the max/week I did for London last year)
27/01/2013 at 21:03

Finally the snow has melted! 18M today @7:45 min/mi pace on average. Some tough conditions out there though, shocking headwinds, mud and freezing puddles from the recent rain. Nothing compared to some of the XC tales on here this weekend though!

I am fading badly towards the end of long runs, seems like I need to work on my endurance.

Anyway, that's 8+7.5+11+7+5+18=56.5 miles for this week. Sprinkled a bit of target MP on Monday and LT on Friday, but otherwise slow.

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