Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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A.W
27/01/2013 at 21:16
Great training in every corner, long runs, xc's, some heavy miles being done!

18 and a bit done my end today, was meant to be longer but had some problems with my stomach so called it a day early. Was comfortable at 7.30 a mile for the early part of the run, dropped to 7.50 average by the end. Amazed i got that far as started suffering from 6 mikes onwards. 55 for my week.
A.W
27/01/2013 at 21:21

bufo802 -- welcome. Actually, drat, you've just pushed me back a place in the Cambridge half ;- ). I agree you definitely sound faster than 78 min, but it's always better to accelerate if you've started a tad slow than enter a world of despair if you start too quick. Hard to say at present but maybe start at ~75 min pace and see how you feel after half way. I'm sure you'll have a better idea of pace nearer the time. While the course (changed a bit from last year) is flat, it will still have a few tight turns (including a 180 degree on Silver St), so it should be reasonably quick but not the ultimate PB course. See you there! (You should line up right at the front given your likely performance.)

27/01/2013 at 21:27

Welcome bufo.  

21M for me this evening (after 7 hours' orchestra rehearsal...) to bring up 70M for the week.  A clubmate took pity on me and joined me to 10 of the miles, which helped, as I was feeling pretty tired.  Just to ensure that pretty much every run this week had some weather-related negativity associated with it, there was a short but sharp hailstorm followed by a decent amount of rain at about 15M, so I ran the last 6M with frozen legs and feet.  Perfect.

27/01/2013 at 22:47

Super Leeds!

TB - you'll sweat more running, but I'm convinced that a shower in advance, a splash in the sink and a clean shirt and you'll be as nicely fragrant as Jeffrey Archer's wife.

There's a lot of Andy Normans about. Ovett's coach was one, and there's a young Andy Norman up here who beat me in a 5K (I think he actually lapped me), and one who I pushed into 3rd place on a Strava segment today. Plus the frost bitten one. Are they all the same bloke?

Marmite - not sure how many tonnes. May back off a bit now and do more hills.

 

Cheerful Dave    pirate
27/01/2013 at 23:02

16 for me today, in the snow-free sunshine.  A bit wet underfoot but I'll live with that.  A bit of friendly banter with some cyclists who didn't like having to work so hard to pass me going up Box Hill, which made a change from being told I was mad running in the snow (didn't we all get that at some point?).

27/01/2013 at 23:05
Dids - probably not the same bloke seeing as the frostbite one is called Dave Andy's brother and Jeff's son - all damn fine runners although Andy is very injury prone but very talented. Jeff Norman is the man I am 2nd to in the all time British 50k road rankings.
27/01/2013 at 23:10

And his Uncle Greg used to be quite good with the old golfing bats.

 

Once again, I shall see myself out

27/01/2013 at 23:13

CD - you must be mad running in the snow.

Sorry you shall have to excuse me. I'm a bit worse for wear. Managed a tremendous DNS at the Ferriby 0 today, before driving home, eating lots of shit and drinking quite a lot of beer. Brother's birthday tomorrow, so running seems quite unimportant this evening.

Mind you, having said that there's been some proper reet good runs today by folk. Are you all training for a Marathon or summat?

28/01/2013 at 09:55

LS21 - All the best to you and yours.  Drink one for me.

Some great long efforts over the weekend, and my visual imagination is being particularly stirred by Padams' trying to stay upright on a bicycle.  Not my favourite weather for riding!

bufo - What Marigold / CW said really. I was entering into the unknown (come-back after injury) leading up to a target HM earlier this year and ended up surprising myself, but the best performance indicators were from tempo runs in the region of 6 - 10 miles.  I agree with Marigold that if you can manage 10k at a certain pace for a tough-but-not-all-out tempo run, you'll be able to manage that for a HM race. Sub-75 sounds very achievable, but run to feel and see what comes out.

OS - I took my first run post-op on 1st December 2011. I was back to full-on training with tempo and interval sessions by March and racing again April last year. (This week last year was my first attempt at a tempo run.)  And yes, I'm definitely in PB shape.  My last peak was Sept 2009 when I set my 10k PB (33:25) which hopefully will be hammered in Chichester in 6 days.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
28/01/2013 at 10:01

PP - if you're post-op it goes a long way to explaining those shorts...

28/01/2013 at 10:06

28/01/2013 at 10:29

wow some fanastic running on this thread, think I'll go and lurk on the sub-4 thread instead so I can feel better about myself

I had a recovery week so mileage dropped form 60 to 49, with long run down 3 to 14.5. I now feel lazy but I think I did the right thing. Monday is my rest day but tempting to go out for a recovery 5 at lunch time, but will try and stay diciplined and not do it ...

Moving on this week from phase 1(Endurance) to phase 2 (Threshold + Endurance) - I doubt my ability to run 6 miles at HM pace (apart from in a race of course). Oh well, in the words of Mark E. Smith, no one ever said it was gonna be easy.

Edited: 28/01/2013 at 10:33
28/01/2013 at 10:35

CD - ROFL

LS21 - Have a beer on me.

PP - your progress has been phenominal, reckon you may knock my 10K (32.42) out the park.

Some great long runs, Joolsmarigold, TR and others I've forgotten 

Welcome to bufo - that's a tasty run!!

progressive 5 as part of a 10.5 on saturday, 5.40, 5.40, 5.30, 5.20, 5.20. then a 20+4 yesterday.  5 this morning with very heavy legs.

 

 

Edited: 28/01/2013 at 10:35
28/01/2013 at 11:51

Loads of great running as per on here as per and some very impressive faster bits within long runs. Adding pace to long runs is something I think I will find hard.

All the best LS21

Yes we are Dids! I sit next to a Spurs fan at work who went to the game, I am enjoying the banter….

Speedy Goth – I am not from the area but Mrs YD is. As it happens I was up this weekend visiting in laws and ran quite close to where Tim B took that great picture on my long run yesterday. A part of the route I took could be a good one for you to try, easy not to get lost (if a numpty like me can do it, then you will be fine).
It’s basically an 8 or 9 mile loop round Gateshead with a couple of monster climbs (Sheriff Hill being one), great strength training on tired legs. The route goes close to the Gateshead side of the Quayside, near the swing bridge, so you could run down there, say 5 or 6 miles there, do the Gateshead loop and then back home, probably close to 20 miles, obviously depending on where in Newcastle you are running from. Drop me a PM if you want route details.

Tim B – you say you ran for Birtley AC, do you know Darren P?

Question to the thread.
Yesterday I ran just under 22 miles in the morning then did 4.5 miles in the evening to hit the full Mara distance. It seemed to work quite well, I don’t feel wrecked today, though I am having a day off and a cut back week.
So I was thinking, in the context of me being a first time Marathoner, what do people think to using doubles to go really long as a tactic to build endurance?  My thinking is it might be a better way to go full or beyond Mara distance, without the risk of burnout from doing it in one go. Interesting to hear others thoughts on the subject.

28/01/2013 at 12:17

Al_P--  ah, now you tell me (about the 1600s). I ordered some yesterday as Millets had them for £45. I've gone for a 9.5 too, wondering if my feet were rattling around too much in some of the size 10s and contributing to blisters. I like the sound of them, anyway.

Nice training CD, Jools (again!) & SL.

YD -- interesting question about doing a long run + top-up double. Depending on how long the gap is and what you've eaten in the meantime, I suppose your leg muscles should still be glycogen-depleted when you do the top-up, so you should still get to experience running "on vapours" and force yourself to adjust to burning fat, which is good. Whereas any aching joints etc might have had a chance to recover from the earlier time on the feet. So there could well be some value in it -- though I think I'd rather stick to doing it all in one go, as a better psychological confidence-booster of being able to do it for real on the day.

I would have had a day off today but the scales tell me I'm still a bit lardy, so I've gone for a recovery-commute-double instead. Maybe I could make it a high-mileage campaign yet (by my standards).

28/01/2013 at 13:10

YD - supposedly the other option is to take walking breaks (walk for 5 mins every half an hour for example). Think it gives your muscles time to recover from the pounding.

CharlieW - how does the leg-muscle glycogen depletion work then? When you are running a marathon, for example, you have x amount of carbs in your muscles and y in your liver and z from whatever you've drunk/eaten as you run. Does it not all count the same as far as fuel for your muscles go? I thought that if YD had some lucozade, for example, it would be quickly available to his muscles..... or does it just go to your brain and stop you getting hypoglycemic?

28/01/2013 at 13:21

Simonx9 - are you sure it was Mark E Smith? Graham Lambert of the Inspiral Carpets is a regular visitor to our office, so I'll ask him who wrote it. I suspect you may be disappointed!

28/01/2013 at 13:37

According to my rather nice vinyl collection, I Want You was written by 'The Inspiral Carpets' (collectively I assume). Although technically Mark E Smith does actually say the words in the song. So you can both claim to be right!!

28/01/2013 at 14:58

was referring to vocals, but point taken - might be worth asking Graham if it was easy working with Mark E?!!

28/01/2013 at 15:14

For info, I ran the 22 in the morning before breakfast so no food from about 19:00 the night before, and finished the run at about 10am. I had plenty to eat after that, a big breakfast a big lunch and a couple of snacks over the afternoon. I set out at about 19:30 for the 4.5miles. So the 2nd run was probably not an ‘on vapours’ run, but I was ravenous afterwards.
I take your point CharlieW about the physiological benefits of doing it in one go, I may still do that. If so these double headers might serve as a good option in the build up to doing that.

Dids – not sure I want to take any walk breaks mid run if that’s what you are talking about. Suppose it is an option, but sounds like a bit of a soft option to me.

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