Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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27/01/2013 at 17:52

Marigold - maybe fairly comfortable isn't quite right, meant I could have kept going but was working fairly hard, though on the road sections was doing 5:45 (had some hilly/snowy bits which were slower) so maybe will try 5:40 next time.

Thinking 72-73 would be rather hopeful but was thinking of possibly aiming towards 75mins.

Edited: 27/01/2013 at 17:53
27/01/2013 at 18:28

Bufo802 - make sure you go for a more half specific tempo session though so don't attempt to do more than 10k of tempo. Up the intensity so that at the end of the 10k you are really working hard. If you are able to run further than 10k for a tempo run then that pace is slower than your potential half marathon pace when tapered with a number on (In my opinion)


......... and for those that have time on their hands - my weekly summary

Edited: 27/01/2013 at 18:36
27/01/2013 at 19:03
PhilP. Some just cracking training going on. May I ask two questions? Firstly how long is it since you have been back training full-on since your surgery? Secondly are you now running better than before? Cheers.
27/01/2013 at 20:30
Well done to all who braved the Northern XC, sounded horrendous muddy fun Great long running from PP, Marigold, Andy D, LJ, Dids and CW.

Marmite - My target marathon is London. I'm doing the Canova 'Fundemental' phase at the mo, up to the Wokingham 1/2 in two weeks, after that I'm going to blend into the (MP) "specific" phase. Then the plan is to start doing some of the MP heavier sessions whilst doing a few more weeks of BAC Tuesday night prom speedwork. As it happens I'm contemplating doing that 3x3M session this week as a HM training workout (version of the workout I have says 103-107%, but I doubt I'll be troubling the 107% end of the scale). Ps sent you a message about the shoe spreadsheet, send me one back with an email address and I'll send you a link to the Dropbox folder it lives in.

6.5M easy today, it was very easy as I'm at the in-laws in Devon and the hills tend to keep the pace/effort of easy runs down. 70M for the week, I'm not intending to extend the mileage much beyond that for this campaign (already at the max/week I did for London last year)
27/01/2013 at 21:03

Finally the snow has melted! 18M today @7:45 min/mi pace on average. Some tough conditions out there though, shocking headwinds, mud and freezing puddles from the recent rain. Nothing compared to some of the XC tales on here this weekend though!

I am fading badly towards the end of long runs, seems like I need to work on my endurance.

Anyway, that's 8+7.5+11+7+5+18=56.5 miles for this week. Sprinkled a bit of target MP on Monday and LT on Friday, but otherwise slow.

27/01/2013 at 21:16
Great training in every corner, long runs, xc's, some heavy miles being done!

18 and a bit done my end today, was meant to be longer but had some problems with my stomach so called it a day early. Was comfortable at 7.30 a mile for the early part of the run, dropped to 7.50 average by the end. Amazed i got that far as started suffering from 6 mikes onwards. 55 for my week.
27/01/2013 at 21:21

bufo802 -- welcome. Actually, drat, you've just pushed me back a place in the Cambridge half ;- ). I agree you definitely sound faster than 78 min, but it's always better to accelerate if you've started a tad slow than enter a world of despair if you start too quick. Hard to say at present but maybe start at ~75 min pace and see how you feel after half way. I'm sure you'll have a better idea of pace nearer the time. While the course (changed a bit from last year) is flat, it will still have a few tight turns (including a 180 degree on Silver St), so it should be reasonably quick but not the ultimate PB course. See you there! (You should line up right at the front given your likely performance.)

27/01/2013 at 21:27

Welcome bufo.  

21M for me this evening (after 7 hours' orchestra rehearsal...) to bring up 70M for the week.  A clubmate took pity on me and joined me to 10 of the miles, which helped, as I was feeling pretty tired.  Just to ensure that pretty much every run this week had some weather-related negativity associated with it, there was a short but sharp hailstorm followed by a decent amount of rain at about 15M, so I ran the last 6M with frozen legs and feet.  Perfect.

27/01/2013 at 22:47

Super Leeds!

TB - you'll sweat more running, but I'm convinced that a shower in advance, a splash in the sink and a clean shirt and you'll be as nicely fragrant as Jeffrey Archer's wife.

There's a lot of Andy Normans about. Ovett's coach was one, and there's a young Andy Norman up here who beat me in a 5K (I think he actually lapped me), and one who I pushed into 3rd place on a Strava segment today. Plus the frost bitten one. Are they all the same bloke?

Marmite - not sure how many tonnes. May back off a bit now and do more hills.


Cheerful Dave    pirate
27/01/2013 at 23:02

16 for me today, in the snow-free sunshine.  A bit wet underfoot but I'll live with that.  A bit of friendly banter with some cyclists who didn't like having to work so hard to pass me going up Box Hill, which made a change from being told I was mad running in the snow (didn't we all get that at some point?).

27/01/2013 at 23:05
Dids - probably not the same bloke seeing as the frostbite one is called Dave Andy's brother and Jeff's son - all damn fine runners although Andy is very injury prone but very talented. Jeff Norman is the man I am 2nd to in the all time British 50k road rankings.
27/01/2013 at 23:10

And his Uncle Greg used to be quite good with the old golfing bats.


Once again, I shall see myself out

27/01/2013 at 23:13

CD - you must be mad running in the snow.

Sorry you shall have to excuse me. I'm a bit worse for wear. Managed a tremendous DNS at the Ferriby 0 today, before driving home, eating lots of shit and drinking quite a lot of beer. Brother's birthday tomorrow, so running seems quite unimportant this evening.

Mind you, having said that there's been some proper reet good runs today by folk. Are you all training for a Marathon or summat?

28/01/2013 at 09:55

LS21 - All the best to you and yours.  Drink one for me.

Some great long efforts over the weekend, and my visual imagination is being particularly stirred by Padams' trying to stay upright on a bicycle.  Not my favourite weather for riding!

bufo - What Marigold / CW said really. I was entering into the unknown (come-back after injury) leading up to a target HM earlier this year and ended up surprising myself, but the best performance indicators were from tempo runs in the region of 6 - 10 miles.  I agree with Marigold that if you can manage 10k at a certain pace for a tough-but-not-all-out tempo run, you'll be able to manage that for a HM race. Sub-75 sounds very achievable, but run to feel and see what comes out.

OS - I took my first run post-op on 1st December 2011. I was back to full-on training with tempo and interval sessions by March and racing again April last year. (This week last year was my first attempt at a tempo run.)  And yes, I'm definitely in PB shape.  My last peak was Sept 2009 when I set my 10k PB (33:25) which hopefully will be hammered in Chichester in 6 days.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
28/01/2013 at 10:01

PP - if you're post-op it goes a long way to explaining those shorts...

28/01/2013 at 10:06

28/01/2013 at 10:29

wow some fanastic running on this thread, think I'll go and lurk on the sub-4 thread instead so I can feel better about myself

I had a recovery week so mileage dropped form 60 to 49, with long run down 3 to 14.5. I now feel lazy but I think I did the right thing. Monday is my rest day but tempting to go out for a recovery 5 at lunch time, but will try and stay diciplined and not do it ...

Moving on this week from phase 1(Endurance) to phase 2 (Threshold + Endurance) - I doubt my ability to run 6 miles at HM pace (apart from in a race of course). Oh well, in the words of Mark E. Smith, no one ever said it was gonna be easy.

Edited: 28/01/2013 at 10:33
28/01/2013 at 10:35


LS21 - Have a beer on me.

PP - your progress has been phenominal, reckon you may knock my 10K (32.42) out the park.

Some great long runs, Joolsmarigold, TR and others I've forgotten 

Welcome to bufo - that's a tasty run!!

progressive 5 as part of a 10.5 on saturday, 5.40, 5.40, 5.30, 5.20, 5.20. then a 20+4 yesterday.  5 this morning with very heavy legs.



Edited: 28/01/2013 at 10:35
28/01/2013 at 11:51

Loads of great running as per on here as per and some very impressive faster bits within long runs. Adding pace to long runs is something I think I will find hard.

All the best LS21

Yes we are Dids! I sit next to a Spurs fan at work who went to the game, I am enjoying the banter….

Speedy Goth – I am not from the area but Mrs YD is. As it happens I was up this weekend visiting in laws and ran quite close to where Tim B took that great picture on my long run yesterday. A part of the route I took could be a good one for you to try, easy not to get lost (if a numpty like me can do it, then you will be fine).
It’s basically an 8 or 9 mile loop round Gateshead with a couple of monster climbs (Sheriff Hill being one), great strength training on tired legs. The route goes close to the Gateshead side of the Quayside, near the swing bridge, so you could run down there, say 5 or 6 miles there, do the Gateshead loop and then back home, probably close to 20 miles, obviously depending on where in Newcastle you are running from. Drop me a PM if you want route details.

Tim B – you say you ran for Birtley AC, do you know Darren P?

Question to the thread.
Yesterday I ran just under 22 miles in the morning then did 4.5 miles in the evening to hit the full Mara distance. It seemed to work quite well, I don’t feel wrecked today, though I am having a day off and a cut back week.
So I was thinking, in the context of me being a first time Marathoner, what do people think to using doubles to go really long as a tactic to build endurance?  My thinking is it might be a better way to go full or beyond Mara distance, without the risk of burnout from doing it in one go. Interesting to hear others thoughts on the subject.

28/01/2013 at 12:17

Al_P--  ah, now you tell me (about the 1600s). I ordered some yesterday as Millets had them for £45. I've gone for a 9.5 too, wondering if my feet were rattling around too much in some of the size 10s and contributing to blisters. I like the sound of them, anyway.

Nice training CD, Jools (again!) & SL.

YD -- interesting question about doing a long run + top-up double. Depending on how long the gap is and what you've eaten in the meantime, I suppose your leg muscles should still be glycogen-depleted when you do the top-up, so you should still get to experience running "on vapours" and force yourself to adjust to burning fat, which is good. Whereas any aching joints etc might have had a chance to recover from the earlier time on the feet. So there could well be some value in it -- though I think I'd rather stick to doing it all in one go, as a better psychological confidence-booster of being able to do it for real on the day.

I would have had a day off today but the scales tell me I'm still a bit lardy, so I've gone for a recovery-commute-double instead. Maybe I could make it a high-mileage campaign yet (by my standards).

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