Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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30/01/2013 at 11:35

TT - me ? 99% certain that I wont be running. Too much risk with trying to run sub 6mm in a C priority race when 8mm isnt exactly comfy at times. Dont want to take any backward steps. Maintaining the sub3 streak matters more.

30/01/2013 at 12:14

Simonx9 -- Noakes does recommend quaffing 300ml or so of sports drink right on the start line, to get some absorption through the gut going as early as possible -- but not earlier, I think because he didn't want to prompt an increase in insulin in response to blood sugar going up (from drinking it without exercise), which would put things into storage mode. I do indeed have about half a bottle of gloop at the start of HM or marathon races -- with couple of spoons of instant coffee stirred in, as a caffeine bonus. Yummy.

Still flirting with less rest and more miles, I did a slightly jaded 4.2 M into work today including a few bridge repeats (err, that's Cambridge hills). Normally I'd have cycled, but running every day in the snow last week showed me I could do it unscathed.

30/01/2013 at 14:33

Human physiology really is a fascinating subject! It's incredible to think that your body has all these different aerobic and anaerobic energy production systems which all work in harmony just so you can put one foot in front of the other.

7M w/ 5M @ LT on the readmill for me today. Quick lunch-time session. That's the first run I've done since Sunday's 18M. My right achilles was sore after Sunday so I took Monday off and just did some elliptical/exercise bike yesterday. It felt fine while running today fortunately.

30/01/2013 at 14:59

First week into proper training.  Going OK - was fit-ish from some gentle running with the dog and a few XC races, but it's a bit of a shock to find 8-milers challenging to finish.  Good intervals in Southwark Park today though.

SimonX9/CW - I do that before marathons, mainly on Noakes' advice.  That whole thing about eating immediately before seems to rarely get mentioned these days.

Bit shocked to see the story about the girl who died in the marathon having taken amphetamines.  Have also just finished David Millar's autobiography, on a vaguely linked note.  Quite enjoyed it, although there's a bit more whiney self-pity than I expected from his wonderfully forthright TV manner.  Still, very well told story and very moving in parts.  Interesting to see him have a good pop at Bradley Wiggins, but with hindsight you can't really argue with Wiggins' team selection.


30/01/2013 at 15:07

I can understand that TR. I applied similar logic dropping back from the 20m to the 10m.

Just back from probably the toughest long run I'll have to do this campaign. The winds are ridiculous; I spent most of the run just trying not to get blown out into traffic. Called it a day at 21.

Oh and yesterday's double was actually 6/14, not the aforementioned 6/15 (which is what I'd intended to do)

30/01/2013 at 15:15

Zattu - wind started picking up in NE England as well. Hopefully, the wind is behind me running home.

A 12 mile run home on a mixture of paths and trails and the snow/ice/slush is now gone. 

Found a 5 mile strava segment(loop) to  incorporate as part of my run home. Which if I can hold MP plus 10% on the trails should see me claim yet another Strava title in the Penshaw Hill area Incorporating these Strava segments with my runs is helping with motivaition to run a little further and harder on the way home.

Edited: 30/01/2013 at 15:16
30/01/2013 at 15:17
Tmap wrote (see)

Good intervals in Southwark Park today though.


Tmap - where do you work? There's a very very good group I run with called the Ravens 2/3 times a week that meets at Tower Bridge every day at 1:10. Fartleks on Tuesday and 6 x 1k intervals on Thursday. A range of abilities but at the high end, quite a few sub3 marathoners, one guy did 2:40 last year, another did 2:51 aged 59 and another who in his prime did 2:21, a couple run XC for England over 50s - the "slowest" are knocking on the door of 1:30 halves. I'll give you more details if you are interested.

30/01/2013 at 16:03

Training has hit the buffers a bit the last couple of days after my 18 miler on Sunday. Had a bit of tendinitis flair up on top of my foot. Rested for the last three days with constant ice, stretching and foam rollering when ever I can. Just about feeling ok again, will try to run tomorrow!

Its a bit blowey out there! Hope it settles down for weekend racing!

30/01/2013 at 17:17
Simonx9 wrote (see)
Tmap wrote (see)

Good intervals in Southwark Park today though.


Tmap - where do you work? There's a very very good group I run with called the Ravens 2/3 times a week that meets at Tower Bridge every day at 1:10. Fartleks on Tuesday and 6 x 1k intervals on Thursday. A range of abilities but at the high end, quite a few sub3 marathoners, one guy did 2:40 last year, another did 2:51 aged 59 and another who in his prime did 2:21, a couple run XC for England over 50s - the "slowest" are knocking on the door of 1:30 halves. I'll give you more details if you are interested.

It varies, but currently Fenchurch St, so that would work well.  Probably at the slower end right now but getting fitter.  There's nothing like running in a group to sharpen up.

30/01/2013 at 17:56

There's a school of thought that says you shouldnt spike your blood sugar before the start of a race though, which taking a gel or a sports drink could do, and you end up running on sugar too early on. Also remember that all those unfuelled long runs have been done to teach your body to burn fat too. BUt, I reckon the NFRS rules apply, even if you have muscles as big as mine you risk not being able to store enough Glycogen to run 26.2 at MP, so a sensible carb load (I think the Aussie thing is bunkum too), a sensible race morning breakie, followed by regular topping up of the tanks with gels and luco is the way to go, I favour topping up the tanks from about 5M as its easier to digest and its easier to face gels early on, it becomes forced feeding late on when you dont fancy it. Gels and Luco amounts probably vary anyway, its going to take me a lot more calories to run at MP then it is CW who is probably weighs 2/3rds of what I do.

TT - i still have time to do a build up race in March, but may not bother, I have run VLM a couple of times with no build up races and seeing as I dont need a MP marker (as I run VLM to feel not pace) then not having a build up race is ok. 

6M bagged lunchtime which takes me over 150 for January (non running day tomorrow). Pretty much 100M less than last January, but the aerobic engine is probably stronger just need enough impact miles through Feb and March to do myself justice on VLM day.

Edited: 30/01/2013 at 17:58
30/01/2013 at 20:30
Padams. If you want the place to look bigger maybe you could get someone more compact to show folks around?

Reflecting on treadmill running, has anyone ever fallen off? I like treadmills to keep pace up for faster sessions, but do occasionally wonder how wise it is.
Edited: 30/01/2013 at 20:31
30/01/2013 at 20:35

Just had a look and with a 5+ mile recovery run tomorrow I'll be over the 250M mark for January. Didn't record on my previous marathon, but I'm pretty sure I never went near 200M before.

Not heard of Noakes before. I've usually been taking a bottle of Lucozade on long runs (that I drink from about 7-10 miles) - the reason being to provide some hydration and, having had a few injuries, not wanting to stress the muscles too much. I'm no longer too concerned about the latter reason, so didn't take one Sunday, so I can hopefully get used to burning fat.

I was going to take some water though (forgot Sunday but it was only 14.5M anyway), not sure I need to now after reading this thread.

So what, if anything, do people on here take on their long runs, especially the 20+ milers? Water even?

Edited: 30/01/2013 at 20:36
30/01/2013 at 20:58

I carry water on nearly all my runs, as I run with a bag from work. On longer runs 16 plus miles I take one gel and around 500ml of water. I take the gel at around the half way point, most of my long runs have faster second half in relation to hills and climbing. I also tend to take it the first half of the run quite easy as running early before food and try and get the fat burners working.

Ran just over 14 miles tonight averaged 07:32 on tracks and trails, so not sure what tarmac equivalent is. It slower than I hoped, but the wind was pretty bad. On the plus side took down the strava record for a 5 mile loop on the way back by taking 11 minutes of the previous record Going to pick some more challenging times to beat in this area next week. 

30/01/2013 at 21:03

If it were a faster long run (inc MP stuff) or a longer long run (maybe 22 or 23) then I take a gel or a drink just on case (but only take them if I need them), otherwise I just run them on fresh air (no breakie).

30/01/2013 at 23:28

no liquid for me on training runs.

Simonx9 - another very good reason to drink on the start line and then in the first few miles of a marathon is that you are under no duress and can easily drink and absorb what you drink. Something I have great difficulty with later on.

think Noakes is ok if you start drinking from 15 mins prior to the start. Also advocates a banana and a coffee an hour before.

31/01/2013 at 04:26

Guess another apology due from me for absence. In defence I've been in Asia since November, as some of you will know.

Good news I'm still running, despite getting my shoes nicked a month back. Bought some cheap fakes which so far haven't wrecked me and I'm still training. Doing masses of swimming though too so much bulkier arm muscles. TR, Padams and some other tri's will appreciate that. Doubt it will make a diddly squat of difference to my marathon time.

I'm building up to one. Just don't know which yet. Maybe Abingdon, might be something else in the summer. Nearly entered the Chiang Mai, Thailand one on a whim but had food poisoning.

Sad sad story about Claire Squires using DMAA. The tragedy is that as we know on here you don't need anything to do a great marathon time except good training and courage. And some beers, of course 

Will start reading back. May return to the UK soon so will be trading runs up hills and along beaches for bliddy freezing conditions. Not sure if I'm mad, but missing England ... and my gf!

31/01/2013 at 04:29

p.s. One of my former pupils has just done a 4 am UK run. I've messaged him to say he's suitably nuts and therefore now a proper runner.

31/01/2013 at 07:52

HR - I saw that on the news this morning about Claire Squires. They should force everyone in the UK to watch that "Do sports drinks work?" programme, or whatever it was called. Good to hear you're still running (and expensive trainers are pointless).

Pursuits last night was really tough with the wind, but must be good training. Covered around 0.5M less in the 45 minute effort than my best, so fairly pleased with that considering the conditions.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
31/01/2013 at 08:48

You don't need to read much of the RW forums to realise that there are plenty who'll follow whatever the latest fad is, whether it's gear, clothes, shoes or 'supplements'.  If they're legal nobody worries about it.  Triathletes are even worse! 

Intervals yesterday all seemed to be into the wind, although looking back at the splits it's very obvious one of them had it behind me.  Swim today I think, before my long run tomorrow.

31/01/2013 at 09:29

Padams - force em to watch the programme and then close down every scumbag that makes a living out of peddling myths and lies to clueless runners. (That programme is still on iPlayer I notice.)

Yesterday morning I ran past the ubiquitous trio of '30 something' women runners, each carrying their little wrap around drink bottle to prevent the deadly threat of dehydration which is ever present on their three mile winter runs. Makes me angry.

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