Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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04/02/2013 at 10:35

Some impressive long runs this weekend as always. Special mentions to Bill Odie's overdistance run and Al_P's ambitious session - well done for attempting that one, never mind almost pulling it off!

Great racing from PP, LD, Marigold and LS. I've got good memories of Dewsbury 10k. It was one of my first races back in 2005 and where I first went sub-40.

I rounded off my cutback week with 15m on Saturday averaging 6:51m/m's, and 11m yesterday at 7:30m/m's (post-Sunday roast) to get 50 for the week. Back on it this week with 80 planned including cross country on Saturday.

04/02/2013 at 10:56

thanks Njord - bikehike seems just the ticket, have worked out a route for next weekend which has half the ascent of yesterday's.

As someone merely hoping to go sub3, I'm massively impressed by some of the performances on this thread!


Technical Help Question:

Using bikehike took quite a while though because of a hugely annoying problem  - I'm new to iMac and it has what they call a "magic mouse" but it is a nightmare on any mapping sites - as you move the mouse around it suddenly zooms in or out massively and before you know it you're in Vancouver Island. I've turned off "Smart Zoom" and switched from Safari to Firefox, both to no avail. Any suggestions appreciated!

04/02/2013 at 11:06

Congrats to PP, LD and Marigold on their wins.

LS21 - Perfect pacing.

AW - congrats on the 10K PB.


04/02/2013 at 12:02

All very impressive.  You know who you are.

More significantly, it appears as if I share my daily route with some playboy stunna.  Can only think she runs there as she knows I use the same bit of path.  Would have though that being "pneumatic" would be an advantage in a flood situation.

Sounds a bit overdramatic though. Not as interesting as sharing the same route with X-Factor C-listers and dead bodies

Not much interesting to add other than witnessing Marders' impressive 68 min half at Watford.  See a few of you at Wokingham on Sunday...

04/02/2013 at 12:21

Nice long ones too Jools, SL, LJ, Al_P (quality), Padams (on your bike) & TR (glad your knee allowed it). And you outdid me on the nature front SX9.

LD: well blagged; if you want some decent MV50 competition, you'll get it on 21st April.

Marigold: well won, an enviable performance as always.

PP: great stuff, I wish I was down in 33:xx at all let alone 33:0x.

LS21: glad you're getting back to it. Impressive accuracy to target there!

My New Balance MRC1600s have arrived but I made a mistake going for size 9.5 -- should be 10 or 10.5. Hope they still have some at the sale price I got. And I jogged rather wearily to work today, as I might have to go on a work trip tomorrow and not run -- so yet another recovery run. Junk miles R' me after all right now...

04/02/2013 at 13:32

Charlie - one barn owl trumps any number of deer! As does a hare, not sure I've ever seen one.

I did see a pair of little egrets too but only at the far end of a field they're often in - bit passé about them now!

04/02/2013 at 13:38

Phil Pub - always the bridesmaid never the bride when feckin Dennis feckin Walmsley is around. I'm not even the no 1 D Walmsley Vet 50 in the country.


04/02/2013 at 13:49

Haha nice one Dids!  Reminds me of VLM/Sheff Half Marathon in 2011. At VLM I was the first 'Smith' to finish (not a bad achievement considering how many of us there are), yet 3 weeks later I wasn't even the first 'Lee Smith' across the line at the Sheffield Half, despite finishing in the top 20!

Al_P - yes I ran pretty much the whole second half with Tom yesterday. We worked really well together actually. There was a bit of a head-wind from 6-9k, so we took it in turns leading while the other tucked right in type thing. Doing that we managed to overhaul a few little groups up ahead, and we both acknowledged that without the other neither of us would have broken 37'00 - so it worked well!

Marigold - nice blog, and a good win. Yes the weather is playing havoc with trying to do quality sessions at the mo. And the forecast here is for more heavy snow tonight and tomorrow. Marvellous....

04/02/2013 at 13:53

Ah, having a rare surname may been a pain in the proverbial at times, but it does mean I am always the first (and last...) with my surname to finish a race!

04/02/2013 at 13:56

Andy D - Good (not so)LR and post roast easy run (burp!)

CW - think you might be out of luck, they've only got UK12 left  Apologies are due since I might have had one of last pairs of 10.5 off there (ordered at the weekend, want to do more speed work in them so brought another pair for race-only wear)

Sx9 - I remember when little egrets were a rarity, now they're flippin everywhere, frequently see half a dozen or so (often pretty close up) running around the marshes near home.

04/02/2013 at 15:16

Dids - Ha!  Classic!  You must feel like one of the Brownlees, what with competing on the global scale now and everything.

Al_P wrote (see)


Found it hard to keep the pace up, definitely not feeling 100% and think the heart rate data shows it as the average was lower on successful reps (170/168/166bpm) despite increasing effort levels. I think this indicates I was pretty fatigued and hence my HR was dropping instead of rising on successive reps, can anyone confirm/comment on this please?


That sounds about right.  My last attempt at MP during a (very) long run was pretty good on the whole, but it still struck me that when I started struggling, a glance at HR showed it to be a fair few beats lower than I was expecting.  Equally, I struggle to hit HMP when trying to do tempo sessions alternating MP/HMP.  I think it's to be expected in the middle of heavy training, so as long as the approximate effort levels are there and it's not so hard that you end up abandoning the session, it's probably a good job done.  Plus, you can afford to go to the well a bit, without risk of overtraining, if you know you've got a cut-back week coming up.



04/02/2013 at 15:18

There is a point in a book about Coe & Ovett where they mention some poor bloke who was a very good runner but at one point, due to living near Ovett and Coe visiting someone in the same street, was only the 3rd best runner in his street.  Harsh.

04/02/2013 at 16:26

PP, LS21, Dids, Marigold - congratulations on the races, wins, PBs etc, all class runs.

TR - good toughness on your 20, hope the knee keeps getting better.

Simonx9 - nice long run and weekly mileage, both will have done you good.

RS78, Jools, SL, Al_P (nice pace sections), Andy D - all solid long runs.

Charlie - are you going to keep your junk mileage experiment going to see if it does give you some benefit?




04/02/2013 at 18:29

RS - indeed there's still enough time to bag 8 more long runs, so If I bag another 6  x 20ish then I'll be happy. Its the rest of my running that needs bringing up from the 5 and 6M runs now.

Brian - pecker is still up, hopefully Wardi can pass me a few of his spare fillies !

CW - no running miles are junk miles, doesnt matter if they are slow.

Conscious of needing to bring the rest of my runs up (stuck at 5 to 7M at the mo) today was a 5,1,10 day. I think my running legs are still in there somewhere as y'day was my frist 20 since last March, so 15M in the trainers today was pleasing.


04/02/2013 at 18:51

Al_P - Your diagnosis sounds about right - looks like general fatigue to me which is no bad thing in marathon training as long as you don't cross the line into overtraining. From experience when that happens it then shoots the other way and the heart rate goes sky high but you don't get any performance from it. Sounds like your cut back week has come just at the right time......... on the subject of which I would probably suggest not doing the full 3 x 10min tomorrow if Wokingham is a serious target race. I would however cut back the session time rather than effort levels. I've got planned a 20 min session the Tuesday before my target half which will just be 2 x 6min @ HMP and then 4 x 2min for some faster stuff. Will then just do a pitiful 1 mile / 4 x 200m on the track on the Thursday!


Edited: 04/02/2013 at 18:51
04/02/2013 at 20:36
That is pitiful. How are you ever going to run a sub-3 Marathon with that kind of training?
04/02/2013 at 21:01

Home Run - Lady D just given me your book which she got from the library. 

04/02/2013 at 21:21

LS21 - That session will be a staggering 7min of effort - standard marathon training in anyones book surely?

04/02/2013 at 21:29

Well seeing as you can probably do almost 2 miles in 7 minutes I suppose I'll let you off

04/02/2013 at 21:31

Oh and Dids - library? Get to Waterstones and buy a copy man. HR has got another vodka bucket to buy at the weekend.

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