Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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11/02/2013 at 20:03

TR Abo 2012 2:53:30, Gobi always told me to aim high.

TR
11/02/2013 at 20:28

OS - ha ha !

postie - so sub 2:50 ish at VLM then ideally then ? ~10min improvement from Oct 2012 to Oct 2013 would be impressive. What are you doing differently ?

11/02/2013 at 20:33

OS - If you want one that looks and feels like a cooler version of the 305 then go for the 310XT if you like orange or the 910XT if you like black (not much other than the colour to seperate them!) Or if on a budget just get another 305 - one of the more reliable models in my opinion.

If you are looking for one that looks more like a watch and don't mind a slightly smaller screen then go for the 610 - they got rid of the touch bezel and went with a much more reliable touch screen that doesn't have a fit when it rains or you decide to sweat on it.

........ don't worry - you can trust me for a bit of Garmin advice I'm watching over you all at all times .......... http://connect.garmin.com 

11/02/2013 at 20:37

Well done Brian, great performance and well hung in there (what is a "dodger"?) - hope the calf recovers well this week.

My knees were no worse today for having done 20M yesterday, no better either so went to physio - explained by quads being a bit tight especially on the right which is the "worse" knee, nothing too much to worry about, just do plenty of stretches - quad   and hip-flexor (with foot raised). Got 8 days off running next week anyway (ski-ing + straight from Gatwick to Wembley) so hopefully right as rain after that.

Thanks Charlie re: Garmin routes - I have a 405 but will try it out soon.

Apart from the fact that they are not affordable on a reglar basis, what do people think about sports massage when not injured - ie. to allegedly help in training or race preparation? I know it is something elite athletes tend to do on a regular basis but my feeling is it might give them a slight edge which can help at that utmost level but away from elite athletes I'm not convinced the benefits are going to be significant for most people - even for some of you guys who seem almost elite to me! Thoughts??

11/02/2013 at 21:10

LD - finally a subject we see Edwin Starr on.  Emperor's New Gold Lame Tracksuit in my book.  Probably all that tweeting that did for him in the end - fancy thinking you could do that at his age.  I mean to think an 85year old could get to grips with an iPhone - that's about as believable as...probably best I don't finish that sentence despite one very large book's worth of possibilities.

Still a zero on the run front today.

Sx9 - that depends on whether they're dodging coffins (Brian et al) or salads (Njordorade*).

As you were.
 

* yes I know he looks like someone out of 1D these days but we both know there's a fat lad in there busting to be seen again.)

Blisters    pirate
11/02/2013 at 22:37

Ah the Chosen One has put out a call to the Senior Citizens.

8 odd miles today, but well wrapped up, like a good OAP. Sub 8s, but just about warm enough without being OTT.

One question....what's an iphone?

12/02/2013 at 08:16

Simonx9 -- coffin dodger! (Old person, a.k.a. veteran athlete.) Route-following on the watches without maps may not work so well I fear, though I've never really tried following the compass-style screen. OS: that's what kills the more watch-shaped running Garmins for me (no map screen) -- such a shame, as they could add a small version of it with mere software upgrades... they only seem to include it in the triathlon-oriented ones these days.

12/02/2013 at 09:31

Phil, 7:01 at 64%!!!!!!

Simonx9, Ta. Coffin dodger. I'm in the same crap age category as Dids. If you are having knee problems, the quads more than likely need strengthening. Squats and lunges will do the trick. I would be condemned to bed in the nursing home by now if it weren't for regular massage. Absolute must at my age trying to do 50+ miles per week. Prevention is better than cure.

12/02/2013 at 09:37

Wow. Very impressed by the results from Wokingham!!!

Congrats on the pb' Al_P, Dachs, Dan A, postie postie and anybody else I missed.

And good runs also by CD, Jools (sounds like a sensible decision to take it easier in the end - will be good to see what you do at Bath).

Nice 15m race in a 21m CW. Looking good for London.

Good weekend of training there LJ and glad to see the training paying off. Congrats on your first ton-up too!

Must have been a very tough xc Padams if it took you that long to run 9k!

Congrats on the 2nd coffin dodger Brian and fingers crossed for your calf.

Wardi - totally agree. The thing is, I know that now I'm (finally) getting back to proper training, progress should be reasonably swift and substantial (well fingers crossed anyway). Definitely feel like a carthorse at the moment though! Nice parkrunning. Good consistency.

Well done on the long run TR.

How's the leg now RS78?

LD - any thoughts on why the 10k was slower than expected?

Looking good PP. Putting a target down for London yet?

12/02/2013 at 09:51

Officially being coached as of today. Straight into a Lydiard style base (obvious really given my underlying condition is so crap). The immediate changes are that I will have my 2 longest runs back to back (2hrs on a Sunday morning, 3hrs on Monday) and my secondary runs (i.e. jogs) have been cut down to 4m for now, which felt strange this morning,

Other than that, I'll have a 90min run, a 75min run, a 10m/1hr tempo and a 75min fartlek (the latter two runs will obviously have some warm-up and cool-down miles as well), and still maintaining my usual weekly rest/family day. All in all it should see me in the 110-120m range initially, which will hopefully yield some solid improvement over the coming weeks.

We've also agreed to drop the next 2 races I had planned (10m this Sunday and a 20m at the start of March) in favour of getting things started properly. I will be doing Reading in 5 weeks time though.

As for London, well that's still up in the air. There were some crossed wires in communication initially, but the outcome of it is that he will decide in 8 weeks time (i.e. 2 weeks out) when we see how I've reacted to the training (the main aim now is to rebuild fitness so I've got a good foundation to step on from). There are 3 possibilities at this stage - race it, do it as a solid training run (i.e. pace it), or bin it completely. If it's a case of doing it as a paced run I'm quite happy to be a rabbit for anybody on here if whatever pace I end up deciding to do it at is of interest.

It does look like a 10k track race at the start of June will be an interim target though, so I'd better crack on and enter that (and practice counting to 25 (PP )). I suspect doing London as a paced run will fit better with the 10k than racing it, so I reckon it will be either that or bin it, rather than race it, but we shall see.

Feels good to be finally starting back doing structured training though

12/02/2013 at 10:06

OS - Good work on the 20 miler.

TT - Interesting stuff!  2 hrs/3hrs runs back-to-back?!  You're obviously not training for an ultra, but what's the thinking beyond just running a very long way on tired legs? Just an extreme form of base re-building?  And if you drop London does that mean you wait till Autumn?

If you're offering race services, do you want to be my lap counter for an early season 10,000m at Parliament Hill?    FWIW I put down 32:59 for a target, although I've got no idea what sort of condition I'll be in after VLM.  I'm planning a bloody good rest but maybe I'll be back up to speed by then.  In the mean time, there won't be any firm targets for VLM till after the Finchley 20 (17th March) but after last Thursday's MP run, 1:17 at halfway started feeling like a realistic strategy.

12/02/2013 at 10:50

lol PP. That's actually the same track race I'm looking at! Nice choice of song btw Looking at the numbers I'd best get my entry sent off asap before it fills up. Any idea on what limits they're putting on it?
Nice VLM (potential) tergat. And yes, if there's no VLM then I'll wait until Dublin in October (but may possibly do another mara 4-5 weeks out from that as a training run).
I think the back to back longer runs are probably for a couple of reasons - I'll have had a rest day on the Saturday so will be fresh starting it, I'm really a 'diesel' runner, so the back to backs will create more of a training effect that some might get out of just doing a solid longer run, plus they're at easy efforts, so shouldn't take too much out of me overall. Also, the standard base week would usually see 3 effort runs, whereas I'm only doing 2.
Also, there was a history of Lydiard prescribing back to back 22m+ runs (sometimes up to 3 in a row) to kick start things if a runner was jaded or out of condition.
It will quite possibly change as things progress too. I don't think it's necessarily a permanent fixture.

12/02/2013 at 11:11

TR Without being bigheaded or egotistical I know I've got sub 2:50 in me. The problem has always been balancing work, family and study with training. I'm currently on my final OU module which ends in June which means I should get a proper training schedule into Abo making 2:45 a reasonable target. The only real potential threat would be my MiL who is in quite poor health these days. The difference between now and Abo 2012 are the midweek runs with more speed sessions and a longer midweek long run. The final incentive would be a silver Xempo top.

11.44 @ 7:12 mpm this morning

12/02/2013 at 11:36
Great stuff from Dachs and Al P getting sub 75 at Wokingham and all the other great runs CD included. See you on champs start next year.

Only planned on running Wokingham (did xc day before) at mp as not racing any races (apart from Fleet) last year seemed to work for London prep. Did not do the planned 20m as it was awful weather so only did a 1min warm up meaning the first few miles needed to be steady. Ran it as 5 (below mara effort) 5@mp and last 5k above mp. Pleased with a low 1.20 and only 1 min slower than last year for 2bpm lower. Saw NTS using it as a long run and he looks in nice form. Walked straight back to car after so 13m for the day would have to do.
Since Sunday the ball of my left foot has been in agony (awful pain under 2nd toe) and foot has swelled up meaning I struggle to get shoe on. Saw Dr this morning and am on antibiotics but having done the usual self diagnosis I thought it could be Mortons Neuroma and she thought it was possible, but should try the drugs first before thinking its as bad as that. Unlikely I'll be toeing the line at Bramley on Sunday and would be happy if I can walk properly by then. Most importantly need to be right for Club la Santa in a few weeks.
TR
12/02/2013 at 11:50

TT - 2hr and 3 hrs back to back is two very long runs, when you only need 2:30 tops on race day. That should give you some big base. All teh best with it.

Postie - your belief is good and if you are doing thjings differently then you may get to that sub 2:45, lots do, esp if they are still on the up curve, are you a novice ?

JH1 - nice to see you, I made note of your Wokingham result. I had Mortons, it came on slowly and went slowly, took wider run shoes,  wider bike shoes etc doesnt sound like you have it - unless you have been having discomfort for a while, the sort that builds during a run or a car drive so that you get to the point where you cant wait to get yout shoe off and let your foot spread out.

12/02/2013 at 12:01

Postie - your goals sound good to me, a challenge but definitely possible, good luck with the training.

Padams - Don't think I'd fancy cycling 25M after doing a XC race, especially if I'd cycled 25M to get there and your time shows how tough the conditions must have been.  Turbo and rugby on the Sunday sound much more civilised...

Zattu - some long runs in there but you're used to running lots of miles so hopefully they will give you the kick start you're looking for.

PP - impressive training as always.

AW - hope you're feeling better by now.

Tmap - good XC too.

Brian - good run at Liversedge, hope the calf isn't anything serious.  Mine's been giving me grief for ages (feel it on the shin) but hopefully it's almost fixed now.  Lots of very painful massage has helped and meant that I've been able to train well whilst managing it.  A good sports therapist or physio can be very useful but it can be hard finding a good one.  To answer Simonx's question I don't think massage makes you run faster but can help your runs feel more comfortable, I'm just too tight to pay for it unless I really need to with an injury.

OS - nice 20 miler.

TR and Blisters - more good training in the bank.  

JH1 - another good run from Wokingham (are you all sure it wasn't downhill and wind assisted all the way!?), hope the foot clears up quickly, could just be bruised.

6 and 5 yesterday, 5 this morning, all slow so far this week, will do 11 or so this evening.

 

12/02/2013 at 12:15

ZaTTu -- I'd find it very hard to hand over all that decision-making to a coach -- though maybe it's a relief in some ways to be told what to do? Remember you're the boss though!

JH1 -- ouch, the foot problem sounds painful. Hope it mends quickly.

I did jog to work yesterday on race-battered legs, as snow was a possibility, but cycled today to let them recover (esp a bit of tightness very high up the R calf, below the back of the knee). I think I've had my fill of speed training for the week and will probably still have a touch of DOMS for the next couple of days, so I plan to make the rest of my runs light, but still hopefully do a fairly long mid-weeker maybe on Thurs. Got to try and keep that new-found mileage up! (Such as it is, will struggle to get to 60 this week I suspect.)

Edited: 12/02/2013 at 12:15
12/02/2013 at 12:26
Dan - Sorry missed you out from the congrats to a new pb. Hopefully we can meet up at 3m on VLM to run a nice 2.59. Gotta get the London sub 3 eventually. ;o)
Jools - Also saw you warming up at the start well done for the sub 1.28 off big miles.

TR - It's the foot where I have the big toe that goes in at an angle (almost 45deg) and inserts below the next big toe which pretty much scrunches my whole foot up. A birth defect unfortunately, had lots of physio as a kid and a doc said when I was young that I may need it to be broken and reset later in life. Don't want to be going down that route just yet.
12/02/2013 at 12:26

CW - everything he has suggested were within the choice of possibilities I gave him, so no issue on that front. Pre-Berlin last year I felt some of the races I was doing were taking longer to recover from than I'd expected. The ones he has advised missing are ones I entered last year expecting to be considerably further along than I am (i.e. I was lazy ), so I have no qualms about skipping them. Handing over decision making is a good thing for me for 2 reasons; firstly I have a tendency to tinker, and secondly it means I can just get on and do it, without having to think what/when, which will free up a little bit of time for other things. It does help that I have complete faith in him though.
Good to see you taking your time to absorb that race. It'll pay off.

TR - cheers. Given current shape I'd expect 2hrs easy to yield 16-17 and 3hrs easy to yield 24-25, so not necessarily as much volume as if I were fit, and I've certainly done back to back days with more volume, but differently structured. It will be interesting to see how I react to it

12/02/2013 at 13:48

Postie I don't doubt with the confidence and energy a sub 2h50 is in you and maybe closer to sub 2h45. However, just as a thought, I think conventional wisdom on this fred is that you need to be a bit tighter to 1h19xx for the HM. Given how much you sliced off last time I'm sure that's more than possible?!

I may be talking bollox. Am a bit out of touch with all this timing malarkey.

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