Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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11/02/2013 at 17:19

Tmap - not sure it's bigotry, as all religions are pretty much of a mad muchness to us non-believers.

I know this is a running forum, and there's religious folk on here, but we do digress and argue about all sorts of other insane things like horse meat, homeopathy and cycling. Surely if you believe a 2,000 year old book of fables with certainty then you'll not be put off by some northern hell-bound heathen's ramblings?

I wasn't put off the Strava Challenge when its merits were unfairly questioned.... although I did go and cry in a corner as each cutting remark was delivered.

11/02/2013 at 17:36

oh no, it will all kick off if we start arguing about religion, I prefer arguing about the pugometer and DNFs.

Postie - from 2:50 ish at VLM to sub 2:45 at Abo would be a be jump in class. What was your most recent marathon ?

5+5 commute for me today.

11/02/2013 at 18:13

TR - there will be no arguing about it from me. I wouldn't know one end of a holy ghost from another. The only thing I do know, and am not pleased about, is that the lady who came 9th in the Strava World's Greatest Runner Ever, was powered on by "the love of god" and I wasn't. And that's not fair.


11/02/2013 at 18:27

what did the 8 above her have then ?

11/02/2013 at 20:00
Teams of helpers on motorbikes carrying GPS watches?

Cracking weekend of running, as usual. I have a minor contribution to report with my first 20 miler of the year. Not fast but more than pleased to get it comfortably done as I am still at the tail end of a cold that had me walking home last Sunday when I tried to ignore it and run anyway. Also I was a bit wiped out by a trip to NY that was hastily cut short to avoid the big storm. And it was -5C and I didn't get home until 11 30.

Annoyingly I seem to have lost my Garmin somewhere along the way- any thoughts on the best model to replace my beloved 305?
11/02/2013 at 20:03

TR Abo 2012 2:53:30, Gobi always told me to aim high.

11/02/2013 at 20:28

OS - ha ha !

postie - so sub 2:50 ish at VLM then ideally then ? ~10min improvement from Oct 2012 to Oct 2013 would be impressive. What are you doing differently ?

11/02/2013 at 20:33

OS - If you want one that looks and feels like a cooler version of the 305 then go for the 310XT if you like orange or the 910XT if you like black (not much other than the colour to seperate them!) Or if on a budget just get another 305 - one of the more reliable models in my opinion.

If you are looking for one that looks more like a watch and don't mind a slightly smaller screen then go for the 610 - they got rid of the touch bezel and went with a much more reliable touch screen that doesn't have a fit when it rains or you decide to sweat on it.

........ don't worry - you can trust me for a bit of Garmin advice I'm watching over you all at all times .......... 

11/02/2013 at 20:37

Well done Brian, great performance and well hung in there (what is a "dodger"?) - hope the calf recovers well this week.

My knees were no worse today for having done 20M yesterday, no better either so went to physio - explained by quads being a bit tight especially on the right which is the "worse" knee, nothing too much to worry about, just do plenty of stretches - quad   and hip-flexor (with foot raised). Got 8 days off running next week anyway (ski-ing + straight from Gatwick to Wembley) so hopefully right as rain after that.

Thanks Charlie re: Garmin routes - I have a 405 but will try it out soon.

Apart from the fact that they are not affordable on a reglar basis, what do people think about sports massage when not injured - ie. to allegedly help in training or race preparation? I know it is something elite athletes tend to do on a regular basis but my feeling is it might give them a slight edge which can help at that utmost level but away from elite athletes I'm not convinced the benefits are going to be significant for most people - even for some of you guys who seem almost elite to me! Thoughts??

11/02/2013 at 21:10

LD - finally a subject we see Edwin Starr on.  Emperor's New Gold Lame Tracksuit in my book.  Probably all that tweeting that did for him in the end - fancy thinking you could do that at his age.  I mean to think an 85year old could get to grips with an iPhone - that's about as believable as...probably best I don't finish that sentence despite one very large book's worth of possibilities.

Still a zero on the run front today.

Sx9 - that depends on whether they're dodging coffins (Brian et al) or salads (Njordorade*).

As you were.

* yes I know he looks like someone out of 1D these days but we both know there's a fat lad in there busting to be seen again.)

Blisters    pirate
11/02/2013 at 22:37

Ah the Chosen One has put out a call to the Senior Citizens.

8 odd miles today, but well wrapped up, like a good OAP. Sub 8s, but just about warm enough without being OTT.

One question....what's an iphone?

12/02/2013 at 08:16

Simonx9 -- coffin dodger! (Old person, a.k.a. veteran athlete.) Route-following on the watches without maps may not work so well I fear, though I've never really tried following the compass-style screen. OS: that's what kills the more watch-shaped running Garmins for me (no map screen) -- such a shame, as they could add a small version of it with mere software upgrades... they only seem to include it in the triathlon-oriented ones these days.

12/02/2013 at 09:31

Phil, 7:01 at 64%!!!!!!

Simonx9, Ta. Coffin dodger. I'm in the same crap age category as Dids. If you are having knee problems, the quads more than likely need strengthening. Squats and lunges will do the trick. I would be condemned to bed in the nursing home by now if it weren't for regular massage. Absolute must at my age trying to do 50+ miles per week. Prevention is better than cure.

12/02/2013 at 09:37

Wow. Very impressed by the results from Wokingham!!!

Congrats on the pb' Al_P, Dachs, Dan A, postie postie and anybody else I missed.

And good runs also by CD, Jools (sounds like a sensible decision to take it easier in the end - will be good to see what you do at Bath).

Nice 15m race in a 21m CW. Looking good for London.

Good weekend of training there LJ and glad to see the training paying off. Congrats on your first ton-up too!

Must have been a very tough xc Padams if it took you that long to run 9k!

Congrats on the 2nd coffin dodger Brian and fingers crossed for your calf.

Wardi - totally agree. The thing is, I know that now I'm (finally) getting back to proper training, progress should be reasonably swift and substantial (well fingers crossed anyway). Definitely feel like a carthorse at the moment though! Nice parkrunning. Good consistency.

Well done on the long run TR.

How's the leg now RS78?

LD - any thoughts on why the 10k was slower than expected?

Looking good PP. Putting a target down for London yet?

12/02/2013 at 09:51

Officially being coached as of today. Straight into a Lydiard style base (obvious really given my underlying condition is so crap). The immediate changes are that I will have my 2 longest runs back to back (2hrs on a Sunday morning, 3hrs on Monday) and my secondary runs (i.e. jogs) have been cut down to 4m for now, which felt strange this morning,

Other than that, I'll have a 90min run, a 75min run, a 10m/1hr tempo and a 75min fartlek (the latter two runs will obviously have some warm-up and cool-down miles as well), and still maintaining my usual weekly rest/family day. All in all it should see me in the 110-120m range initially, which will hopefully yield some solid improvement over the coming weeks.

We've also agreed to drop the next 2 races I had planned (10m this Sunday and a 20m at the start of March) in favour of getting things started properly. I will be doing Reading in 5 weeks time though.

As for London, well that's still up in the air. There were some crossed wires in communication initially, but the outcome of it is that he will decide in 8 weeks time (i.e. 2 weeks out) when we see how I've reacted to the training (the main aim now is to rebuild fitness so I've got a good foundation to step on from). There are 3 possibilities at this stage - race it, do it as a solid training run (i.e. pace it), or bin it completely. If it's a case of doing it as a paced run I'm quite happy to be a rabbit for anybody on here if whatever pace I end up deciding to do it at is of interest.

It does look like a 10k track race at the start of June will be an interim target though, so I'd better crack on and enter that (and practice counting to 25 (PP )). I suspect doing London as a paced run will fit better with the 10k than racing it, so I reckon it will be either that or bin it, rather than race it, but we shall see.

Feels good to be finally starting back doing structured training though

12/02/2013 at 10:06

OS - Good work on the 20 miler.

TT - Interesting stuff!  2 hrs/3hrs runs back-to-back?!  You're obviously not training for an ultra, but what's the thinking beyond just running a very long way on tired legs? Just an extreme form of base re-building?  And if you drop London does that mean you wait till Autumn?

If you're offering race services, do you want to be my lap counter for an early season 10,000m at Parliament Hill?    FWIW I put down 32:59 for a target, although I've got no idea what sort of condition I'll be in after VLM.  I'm planning a bloody good rest but maybe I'll be back up to speed by then.  In the mean time, there won't be any firm targets for VLM till after the Finchley 20 (17th March) but after last Thursday's MP run, 1:17 at halfway started feeling like a realistic strategy.

12/02/2013 at 10:50

lol PP. That's actually the same track race I'm looking at! Nice choice of song btw Looking at the numbers I'd best get my entry sent off asap before it fills up. Any idea on what limits they're putting on it?
Nice VLM (potential) tergat. And yes, if there's no VLM then I'll wait until Dublin in October (but may possibly do another mara 4-5 weeks out from that as a training run).
I think the back to back longer runs are probably for a couple of reasons - I'll have had a rest day on the Saturday so will be fresh starting it, I'm really a 'diesel' runner, so the back to backs will create more of a training effect that some might get out of just doing a solid longer run, plus they're at easy efforts, so shouldn't take too much out of me overall. Also, the standard base week would usually see 3 effort runs, whereas I'm only doing 2.
Also, there was a history of Lydiard prescribing back to back 22m+ runs (sometimes up to 3 in a row) to kick start things if a runner was jaded or out of condition.
It will quite possibly change as things progress too. I don't think it's necessarily a permanent fixture.

12/02/2013 at 11:11

TR Without being bigheaded or egotistical I know I've got sub 2:50 in me. The problem has always been balancing work, family and study with training. I'm currently on my final OU module which ends in June which means I should get a proper training schedule into Abo making 2:45 a reasonable target. The only real potential threat would be my MiL who is in quite poor health these days. The difference between now and Abo 2012 are the midweek runs with more speed sessions and a longer midweek long run. The final incentive would be a silver Xempo top.

11.44 @ 7:12 mpm this morning

12/02/2013 at 11:36
Great stuff from Dachs and Al P getting sub 75 at Wokingham and all the other great runs CD included. See you on champs start next year.

Only planned on running Wokingham (did xc day before) at mp as not racing any races (apart from Fleet) last year seemed to work for London prep. Did not do the planned 20m as it was awful weather so only did a 1min warm up meaning the first few miles needed to be steady. Ran it as 5 (below mara effort) 5@mp and last 5k above mp. Pleased with a low 1.20 and only 1 min slower than last year for 2bpm lower. Saw NTS using it as a long run and he looks in nice form. Walked straight back to car after so 13m for the day would have to do.
Since Sunday the ball of my left foot has been in agony (awful pain under 2nd toe) and foot has swelled up meaning I struggle to get shoe on. Saw Dr this morning and am on antibiotics but having done the usual self diagnosis I thought it could be Mortons Neuroma and she thought it was possible, but should try the drugs first before thinking its as bad as that. Unlikely I'll be toeing the line at Bramley on Sunday and would be happy if I can walk properly by then. Most importantly need to be right for Club la Santa in a few weeks.
12/02/2013 at 11:50

TT - 2hr and 3 hrs back to back is two very long runs, when you only need 2:30 tops on race day. That should give you some big base. All teh best with it.

Postie - your belief is good and if you are doing thjings differently then you may get to that sub 2:45, lots do, esp if they are still on the up curve, are you a novice ?

JH1 - nice to see you, I made note of your Wokingham result. I had Mortons, it came on slowly and went slowly, took wider run shoes,  wider bike shoes etc doesnt sound like you have it - unless you have been having discomfort for a while, the sort that builds during a run or a car drive so that you get to the point where you cant wait to get yout shoe off and let your foot spread out.

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