Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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25/02/2013 at 20:28

Dids.. I have a mini combined comb/mirror that I got from a Xmas cracker.  I can tuck that away in whatever pocket I have but the Brylcreem is a problem!

CC2.. we inherited our cat from my old folks & he didn't like being moved - at all.  Spent 2 months sulking & living under the u-bend in the spare toilet before he decided we were alright really.

Nice commute on tired legs TB.

Al P.. you're as fit as a butchers dog, you could easily take a few days off without losing any fitness.  If your legs are digging up old niggles it usually means they are wilting under the strain of miles & races.  'Protect what you have before reaching out for more' is good advice in such circumstances.   

5.2m steady loosener tonight. 

26/02/2013 at 08:59

TR Wardi  - Thanks for the (slightly) stern and sage-like words of wisdom guys Advice taken, so just another 1M swim first thing this morning for today... It feels pretty good and I can do one-leg heel lifts with no discomfort, so should be good to return to the trainers (gently) tomorrow  I think. This week is a cut-back week anyhow, so not bothered about mileage. I'm keen to have a go at the last Boscombe prom 5k on Friday evening if all turns out ok and have entered a XC 1/2 on Sunday, but that's not going to be a race effort (probably be around MP).

Forgot to see well done to CC for a great position in the nationals XC

Is 4 halves in 4 weekends all part of Marders training, or is he on some sort of month long pot-hunting campaign?

26/02/2013 at 09:41


I am doing the Surrey Spitfire 20 miler on the weekend and wanted to get some opinions about what time would indicate that I am in sub three shape without a taper. My PB for the distance (with taper) is 2:12 (but that was at Worthing last year). I am currently on 50 mpw and doing one speed session per week and a long run but only started training properly again three weeks ago. Sub 2:20?

Edited: 26/02/2013 at 09:43
26/02/2013 at 11:34

not read back fully but well done to LS21 on sub hour 10 miler. Was ski-ing last week and found (hot) gym with treadmill for apres-ski altitute training (4 visits, avg 70mins) , went straight to Wembley on return to watch the Swans win the league cup, so long run postponed till 6am yesterday morning. Oh my god, worst training run ever!

Meant to do a slow 20 miles, but didn't realise how tired my quads were, they felt heavy from the off but thought they'd warm up and be okay. They didn't. Wished I could have stopped at 10M but not an option. Did an undulating 19M of strugglesome slog, the last 6M were at an average of 10'42 pace!! It's a bit embarrasing reading others' efforts above. Think I'll refer to it as an impressive 2h56 time-on-feet effort.

Hopefully I'll be okay to get some reasonable easy runs in this week ahead of Thameside 20 on Sunday which I'm doing at 7mm pace rather than race. That's the plan anyway.

Edited: 26/02/2013 at 11:41
26/02/2013 at 11:49

Carl - something around the 2.12 mark would suggest you could be in sub-3 shape.  But be careful not to go flat out or else you will compromise the next week or two's training.

You should consider the marathon as a race of two halves.  1st half = 20 miles, 2nd half = 6.2 miles.  One thing that I have found out after years of good 20 milers and poor subsequent marathons, is that if you spend all your time training in the "first half zone", there's no reason why you will be good at the "2nd half".  As such, I think that a 22 - 24 mile run is much more valuable than a 20 mile race in marathon training.  The Bramley 20 this year was my slowest ever 20 mile race (a 2.16 training run basically), but left me able to run 200 miles in the week before and week after combined.  Really glad I didn't attack it like in previous years.

26/02/2013 at 17:31

Decided to skip my first available run as a V45 runner. Going to run home from work tomorrow night instead. Intending to be still a little hung over for the run back tomorrow  

26/02/2013 at 18:33

Al_P - well decided.

Carl J - if you only started training 3 weeks ago then I'm not sure a 20M race is wise, wether its 2:20 or 2:12. As a rough guide you should be able to run ~12M at MP in training as a solo run. But not sure that chasing MP is wise if you havnt run much recently. You might be better served getting 5 or 6 weeks solid miles in.

DanA - still amazed where that restraint came from

TB - happy birthday


Edited: 26/02/2013 at 18:33
26/02/2013 at 18:47

Very amusing interview with Mo Farah after his half marathon win.... "haven't you run before". Lots of LOLs and ROLFs to enjoy etc

26/02/2013 at 21:01
LD. I just saw that interview. Amongst other things, supports your suggestion a few days back that he may not be the sharpest tool in the box. Interesting to hear him describe his plan to run the London half in April- I fancy his chances of winning that one too.

Been away for a few days holiday and dipped in occasionally, so recall of events is poor. Along with the usual remarkable and inspirational stuff presented as run of the mill, i was very sorry to hear of what I hope is a minor mishap for TT- I would support what others have said and suggest you use the opportunity anyway. You just don't know what is around the corner and should enjoy the opportunities in front of you.

An 18min 5k at lunch followed by a (frankly sweaty) core session, and then a run commute home this evening. After 4 days off I thought it would feel easier, but actually was really tough.
26/02/2013 at 21:07

Seen it too LD. Doesn't say much for the interviewer who can't tell the difference between an HM and an FM. His interview on the AW website is worth a look though.

Doubled 10.44 with 7.83

26/02/2013 at 21:24

9M for me including club session: 4 x (3 mins, 2 mins, 1 mins; all off 1 min).  Wasn't quite the 6 x 600m which P&D prescribed but close enough that I figured the change was offset by the faster people dragging me along at 5k pace!

26/02/2013 at 21:52

Many happy returns to TB.

Nice evenings work Jools.

Good double there OS with a speedy 5k included.

18m on a weekday is good going Postie even if it is split in half!

Simon.. congrats on toughing out that long run.  I've heard that skiing can do funny things to the legs!

Al P.. not like me to be stern!  I suppose we've all been guilty of trying to train through a niggle when it's not wise, just keep an eye on it and back off if necessary.

Can't match Postie's double but pleased enough with 4+7m today.  At least it's stopped raining!

26/02/2013 at 22:19

did 3.7 today and legs still knackered so thinking of doubling up for the first time tomorrow, always been sceptical about it eg. rather do 8M than 4M and 6M, but if it's good enough for Wardie and Postie it's certainly good enough for me.

I'd be genuinley interested to hear why anyone does double up on a regular basis for marathon training.

26/02/2013 at 23:24
Simonx9 - saves me ??1,000/year on train fares.

Also, imagine doing a 15 mile run every day? It's going to get a bit tedious and tiring. However, split that into an easy 6 miler in the morning, then a solid 9 miler, or 9 miles of intervals, or 9 miles of more easy running.

You will probably find that when you set out on your second run of the day, however, that you wish you'd got it all over with in the morning.
27/02/2013 at 07:50

Carl - I agree with TR, I don't really see why you would want to race the 20M flat out. You'll be tired for a week afterwards and presumably you'd rather do well in the marathon than the 20M race. I've always done 20M races in a marathon build-up as something like 5M at MP+30s, 5M at MP+15s, 10M at MP (or maybe even slower than that for the first 2x5M). If you can manage that with MP being 6:51s, and it doesn't feel too hard, then sub 3 should be doable (with a taper).

TB - happy birthday for yesterday.

Nice training postie and Jools (and others I expect).

10M for me inc. 10x600m in around 1:55 average on a road loop with a short sharp hill on it. Legs felt pretty rubbish during the warm-up and start of the session but got going towards the end!

Edited: 27/02/2013 at 07:51
27/02/2013 at 08:45

Simon - I'm doing doubles so that all of my running apart from a weekend long run is done as commutes, easy peasy.

time to wind the magnetron up a bit now and see how my knee copes, the aim was for my first midweek MLR in a 2, 7 MPish, 4 up and over the hill to work. Always a struggle going from 8mm to sub 7mm, and although I dodnt think I'm as fit as I was at this tiem last year the 7 came in av 6:32. Legs didnt like it, but i managed to hold a steadyish pace instead of it getting a bit progressive. On my side is the fact that this time last year I was just about to hit 10 days of no running due to a calf strain, so I might catch up a bit more yet.

27/02/2013 at 10:29

Wardi - are you swiss tony?

TR - Sounds like things arer moving in the right direction.

Carl - I'm still unsure on how to approach 20mile races during training but judging by exepreinces of other I would follow the advice you've been given.

Postie - decent double.

16.5 this morning at pitch black and snowing o'clock, glad to have it done and now it's time to eat cake and play with my daughters birthday presents, 3 today!!

27/02/2013 at 10:51

Simonx9 - I avoided doing doubles for quite a while but do them several times a week now and am definitely a fan.  My week goes something along these lines:  Mon 6M and 5M both easy; Tues 5M easy and 11M with some faster stuff; Weds 17M easy; Thu 5M easy and 11M with some faster stuff; Fri off or 4-6M easy; Sat 4M easy and 10M easy or 14M or whatever fits in with what I'm doing, sometimes a Parkrun or XC race; Sun 20M usually easy.  No way I could do the miles without doing the doubles and you get used to it fairly quickly.

TR - encouraging pace in that midweeker, only 3-4s to take off MP and you'll be running 2.4x in no time!

Zattu - sorry to hear about your calf, hope it's healing well.  I can see why racing it sub-par isn't worth it for you but could be enjoyable doing an easy run and really taking in the atmosphere with no pressure.

Andy D - hope your shin is OK now too, I've struggled with shin issues for ages.  The increase in mileage wasn't planned as such, just thought one week that I'd try doing 100M and my legs didn't fall off so did it again a couple of times.  Will do 70ish this week and back up again next week.

Al_P - another big run, you are definitely due an easier week or so.  April 21st is the time for your best run (and it should be very good for you).

TB - belated happy birthday! 

OS - that's a good 5k for a lunchtime, did you do it on your own?

Postie - very nice double.

Jools and Padams - good interval pace yesterday.

Carl - never done a 20M race but you've had some good advice.

Wardi - you're getting some good training in again now, good to see.

SL - good midweeker this morning, enjoy your daughter's birthday.

Intervals for me last night, did some altitude training by running up a big hill to do them on the flat bit at the top.  Shorter pyramid this week, did 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1mins all with 1min jog recovery.  Averaged 5.21 pace for the intervals and I have to say it's a lot more enjoyable doing intervals when you're fit.  4M (7.5x pace) in the morning 8.4M (6.15 pace) in total in the evening.

27/02/2013 at 12:44

Carl -- I did a 20M I was pretty happy with 4 weeks before Abingdon one year, which also went well, but then it might have gone better without racing the 20. Not much kudos for that 20 as it was a night-time club relay stage, so it wasn't really worth beating myself up for anyway.

Simonx -- another run-commuter here, that's why I do doubles. I never do them at weekends, but then I do weekend runs early if poss so as not to get in the way of family stuff.

Nice training by several (OS, SL, Jools, ...).

Last week I said I'd be doing few miles but more speed this week. But my big 27M run on Sun with speed a) reassured me I don't have to worry about speed so much and b) left me with tired legs. I'm also constrained work-wise as I have some German visitors and need to be getting in early, so I can't do a big mid-week run to work (could do on Fri). So I've reverted to moderate miles every day instead, which were at a mighty slow plod (8:25/M) yesterday on rather wooden legs, but more normal (7:00/M) today. Should still be 60-70M this week. Next week however is perfect for a cut-back/taper for my target half. Making it up as I go along? Oh yes.

27/02/2013 at 13:33

thanks for feedback all, esp LJ 

6M this morning, still a slog. Can't decide whether to do another 4 or 5M to keep milage up, or have a rest. Boiler packed up, so maybe I might was well go out.

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