Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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26/02/2013 at 17:31

Decided to skip my first available run as a V45 runner. Going to run home from work tomorrow night instead. Intending to be still a little hung over for the run back tomorrow  

26/02/2013 at 18:33

Al_P - well decided.

Carl J - if you only started training 3 weeks ago then I'm not sure a 20M race is wise, wether its 2:20 or 2:12. As a rough guide you should be able to run ~12M at MP in training as a solo run. But not sure that chasing MP is wise if you havnt run much recently. You might be better served getting 5 or 6 weeks solid miles in.

DanA - still amazed where that restraint came from

TB - happy birthday


Edited: 26/02/2013 at 18:33
26/02/2013 at 18:47

Very amusing interview with Mo Farah after his half marathon win.... "haven't you run before". Lots of LOLs and ROLFs to enjoy etc

26/02/2013 at 21:01
LD. I just saw that interview. Amongst other things, supports your suggestion a few days back that he may not be the sharpest tool in the box. Interesting to hear him describe his plan to run the London half in April- I fancy his chances of winning that one too.

Been away for a few days holiday and dipped in occasionally, so recall of events is poor. Along with the usual remarkable and inspirational stuff presented as run of the mill, i was very sorry to hear of what I hope is a minor mishap for TT- I would support what others have said and suggest you use the opportunity anyway. You just don't know what is around the corner and should enjoy the opportunities in front of you.

An 18min 5k at lunch followed by a (frankly sweaty) core session, and then a run commute home this evening. After 4 days off I thought it would feel easier, but actually was really tough.
26/02/2013 at 21:07

Seen it too LD. Doesn't say much for the interviewer who can't tell the difference between an HM and an FM. His interview on the AW website is worth a look though.

Doubled 10.44 with 7.83

26/02/2013 at 21:24

9M for me including club session: 4 x (3 mins, 2 mins, 1 mins; all off 1 min).  Wasn't quite the 6 x 600m which P&D prescribed but close enough that I figured the change was offset by the faster people dragging me along at 5k pace!

26/02/2013 at 21:52

Many happy returns to TB.

Nice evenings work Jools.

Good double there OS with a speedy 5k included.

18m on a weekday is good going Postie even if it is split in half!

Simon.. congrats on toughing out that long run.  I've heard that skiing can do funny things to the legs!

Al P.. not like me to be stern!  I suppose we've all been guilty of trying to train through a niggle when it's not wise, just keep an eye on it and back off if necessary.

Can't match Postie's double but pleased enough with 4+7m today.  At least it's stopped raining!

26/02/2013 at 22:19

did 3.7 today and legs still knackered so thinking of doubling up for the first time tomorrow, always been sceptical about it eg. rather do 8M than 4M and 6M, but if it's good enough for Wardie and Postie it's certainly good enough for me.

I'd be genuinley interested to hear why anyone does double up on a regular basis for marathon training.

26/02/2013 at 23:24
Simonx9 - saves me ??1,000/year on train fares.

Also, imagine doing a 15 mile run every day? It's going to get a bit tedious and tiring. However, split that into an easy 6 miler in the morning, then a solid 9 miler, or 9 miles of intervals, or 9 miles of more easy running.

You will probably find that when you set out on your second run of the day, however, that you wish you'd got it all over with in the morning.
27/02/2013 at 07:50

Carl - I agree with TR, I don't really see why you would want to race the 20M flat out. You'll be tired for a week afterwards and presumably you'd rather do well in the marathon than the 20M race. I've always done 20M races in a marathon build-up as something like 5M at MP+30s, 5M at MP+15s, 10M at MP (or maybe even slower than that for the first 2x5M). If you can manage that with MP being 6:51s, and it doesn't feel too hard, then sub 3 should be doable (with a taper).

TB - happy birthday for yesterday.

Nice training postie and Jools (and others I expect).

10M for me inc. 10x600m in around 1:55 average on a road loop with a short sharp hill on it. Legs felt pretty rubbish during the warm-up and start of the session but got going towards the end!

Edited: 27/02/2013 at 07:51
27/02/2013 at 08:45

Simon - I'm doing doubles so that all of my running apart from a weekend long run is done as commutes, easy peasy.

time to wind the magnetron up a bit now and see how my knee copes, the aim was for my first midweek MLR in a 2, 7 MPish, 4 up and over the hill to work. Always a struggle going from 8mm to sub 7mm, and although I dodnt think I'm as fit as I was at this tiem last year the 7 came in av 6:32. Legs didnt like it, but i managed to hold a steadyish pace instead of it getting a bit progressive. On my side is the fact that this time last year I was just about to hit 10 days of no running due to a calf strain, so I might catch up a bit more yet.

27/02/2013 at 10:29

Wardi - are you swiss tony?

TR - Sounds like things arer moving in the right direction.

Carl - I'm still unsure on how to approach 20mile races during training but judging by exepreinces of other I would follow the advice you've been given.

Postie - decent double.

16.5 this morning at pitch black and snowing o'clock, glad to have it done and now it's time to eat cake and play with my daughters birthday presents, 3 today!!

27/02/2013 at 10:51

Simonx9 - I avoided doing doubles for quite a while but do them several times a week now and am definitely a fan.  My week goes something along these lines:  Mon 6M and 5M both easy; Tues 5M easy and 11M with some faster stuff; Weds 17M easy; Thu 5M easy and 11M with some faster stuff; Fri off or 4-6M easy; Sat 4M easy and 10M easy or 14M or whatever fits in with what I'm doing, sometimes a Parkrun or XC race; Sun 20M usually easy.  No way I could do the miles without doing the doubles and you get used to it fairly quickly.

TR - encouraging pace in that midweeker, only 3-4s to take off MP and you'll be running 2.4x in no time!

Zattu - sorry to hear about your calf, hope it's healing well.  I can see why racing it sub-par isn't worth it for you but could be enjoyable doing an easy run and really taking in the atmosphere with no pressure.

Andy D - hope your shin is OK now too, I've struggled with shin issues for ages.  The increase in mileage wasn't planned as such, just thought one week that I'd try doing 100M and my legs didn't fall off so did it again a couple of times.  Will do 70ish this week and back up again next week.

Al_P - another big run, you are definitely due an easier week or so.  April 21st is the time for your best run (and it should be very good for you).

TB - belated happy birthday! 

OS - that's a good 5k for a lunchtime, did you do it on your own?

Postie - very nice double.

Jools and Padams - good interval pace yesterday.

Carl - never done a 20M race but you've had some good advice.

Wardi - you're getting some good training in again now, good to see.

SL - good midweeker this morning, enjoy your daughter's birthday.

Intervals for me last night, did some altitude training by running up a big hill to do them on the flat bit at the top.  Shorter pyramid this week, did 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1mins all with 1min jog recovery.  Averaged 5.21 pace for the intervals and I have to say it's a lot more enjoyable doing intervals when you're fit.  4M (7.5x pace) in the morning 8.4M (6.15 pace) in total in the evening.

27/02/2013 at 12:44

Carl -- I did a 20M I was pretty happy with 4 weeks before Abingdon one year, which also went well, but then it might have gone better without racing the 20. Not much kudos for that 20 as it was a night-time club relay stage, so it wasn't really worth beating myself up for anyway.

Simonx -- another run-commuter here, that's why I do doubles. I never do them at weekends, but then I do weekend runs early if poss so as not to get in the way of family stuff.

Nice training by several (OS, SL, Jools, ...).

Last week I said I'd be doing few miles but more speed this week. But my big 27M run on Sun with speed a) reassured me I don't have to worry about speed so much and b) left me with tired legs. I'm also constrained work-wise as I have some German visitors and need to be getting in early, so I can't do a big mid-week run to work (could do on Fri). So I've reverted to moderate miles every day instead, which were at a mighty slow plod (8:25/M) yesterday on rather wooden legs, but more normal (7:00/M) today. Should still be 60-70M this week. Next week however is perfect for a cut-back/taper for my target half. Making it up as I go along? Oh yes.

27/02/2013 at 13:33

thanks for feedback all, esp LJ 

6M this morning, still a slog. Can't decide whether to do another 4 or 5M to keep milage up, or have a rest. Boiler packed up, so maybe I might was well go out.

27/02/2013 at 16:10

I have only just started doubling up and am currently only able to do this on Tuesdays due to school clubs. I find it enjoyable and hopefuly rewarding as it's the only daylight running I do at the moment apart from the end of Sundays long run.

15.23 MWLR with the last 5 attempted at mp (6:33, 6:44, 6:32, 6:32, 6:29) the blip was due to crossing a busy junction.

Not sure about tomorrow but will take my kit and try and sneak something on the way home if time.

27/02/2013 at 17:31

This Bramble 20 miler seems to be the running equivalent of "The Scottish Play". So many people have their warnings and horror stories, I feel it may be cursed.

Speaking of curses, Home Run's book is currently gripping stuff (apart from the bit about running of course). I'm about 30 pages from the end. I thought I was brave for asking the landlord at work to turn the heating up a bit yesterday, but trying to rescue kids from religious nutters in Kinsasha is on another level.

All this talk of doubles has made me gear myself up for a swift 12 miler home, after a solid 10 miler this morning. Got me caffeined to the feckin eyeballs. I have got a credit card and loose change for the bus as a cop out.

I see in the news that at the end of March you can get an app for your iPhone (for a mere 13 quid) which will take a urine sample and let you know if you have diabetes, cancer, syphillis etc. Kinell! the amount of time I've spent on over the years, self diagnosing injuries and worrying. Now this. I'll be a permanent nervous wreck.

27/02/2013 at 18:41

SL - good early doors work, to be home in time for the birthday girl. Hope the cake was nice.

LJ - intervals when fit eh, sounds good.

CW - you were doing so well, and now its talk of tapers for 1/2 maras again ! ARRRRGGGHHHHH !

18 running miles and 1 in the lido for the day in a 13,1,5 stylie.

Not too worried about the pace of todays run, I know where the mile markers roughly are so was keeping an eye on pace and trying not to get  too progressive. the first mile was ~6:40 which takes a bit of judging early doors after a couple of 8mm miles. But pretty happy that approx a year since my last MP run I managed to hit the right sort of pace with no HRM or gadget. I ended up doing the few runs like this too progressive last yr and wasted matches (10 av 6:15 being the fastest), I'm going to try to set a 6:30 pace limit this time. On the day 6:30s is just a rough estimate, the pace will be dependent upon feel.

27/02/2013 at 20:32
Simon. If you want to get injured, running doubles is an excellent way to do it. You describe being tired, so doubles are the last thing you should do. Rest and recovery is a key part of training.

Having said that, very nice triple, TR. Have you considered getting a Garmin? It would help a lot with your pace and distance judgement.

LJ. Nice interval session. I lack discipline to do sessions like that on my own. Hence the 5k yesterday was on the treadmill as I do have the discipline to keep running so as not to fall off.

LD. I genuinely laughed at that last post. That website needs to exist. Do you need to pee on your iGadget? I assume Charlie will get his soldering iron out and wire it up to be a real time niggle display. (actually would that need a catheter?).

Circumstances against me tonight, so only a lunch gym session today.
27/02/2013 at 20:32
Shit in my kettle time! Flying home at 6 min/miles. Felt really easy banging em out. Then a pain in my hamstring stopped me dead. I thought it was sciatic pain, stretched.... But it seemed to make things worse. Damn. Really hope it's just a cramp, cos I think hamstring injuries are pretty rare - ice, loads of beer and iboprofen.... May have a hot bath later. Feck, feck.
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