Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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24/03/2013 at 21:56

My dad worked his whole life for Rowntrees (well, it was Mackintosh's when he started and Nestlé when he left). He used to bring home all sorts of 'mistakes' from the factory shop. Solid chocolate Kitkats were a favourite. Maybe also explains why I was such a porker until the age of 26. 

24/03/2013 at 21:58

Avoiding the kit kats, there's an offer at Sainsbury's on Lindt Lindor. £3.90 off 2 x 200g boxes. Still expensive but so good.

Edited: 24/03/2013 at 21:59
24/03/2013 at 22:03
SL - hire her a bike in Padstow (sounds like thats where you are going?) and run with her along the camel trail to Bude and back (it's a 20 miler). .... If you are staying in Polzeath or Port Isaac, then do the run to Delabole and back. Bill Adcocks did that run (in reverse) as the start of his serious training for his legendary Athens course record. (Not very scenic).

It's a bugger to find any flat stretches for speed training round there. Again, camel trail is your best bet.
24/03/2013 at 22:06

I still think you're on for sub 3 SX9, that's a tough course and was on the back of the miles in the week.  I thought it was pretty windy too but don't know if that comes from being tall and wide or just telling myself it was windy because I found it so hard.  That constant climb for 2 miles around the 5th mile was particularly hard.

I've eaten too much.

24/03/2013 at 23:25

Hello everyone - I've just completed an epic thread read back! Nice to get back to the usual craziness - biscuits, chocolate bars, muesli and running silly numbers of laps!

Bit of a light running week for me as I was away on the beer Friday and Saturday. I managed a 17mi this afternoon though which wasn't all that pleasant after the weekend's drinking. Conditions weren't too bad, most of the snow on the pavements had melted but there was still a lot on the trail part of my course. At one point I was striding through a foot-deep snowdrift which was fun.

I saw mention of the Wilmslow Half - well done to everyone who ran. One of my friends reminded me that this time last year he and I ran that particular race in 25C heat - something of a contrast to today I would think.

24/03/2013 at 23:42
Scott Overall was injured last week with ITB, according to his blog ( yes, been stalking him), but can't afford physio since his funding was cut.
It's seriously going to happen......
24/03/2013 at 23:44

Not had a proper read back (will do tomorrow) but concur with LD re the Camel Trail SL - (although I think it goes to Bodmin, not Bude) - a mere oversight on LD's part I'm sure, caused by over-excitement in the Chunky Kit-Kat department. Camel Trail is pretty much bang flat - 10 miles out, a cheeky Cruyff turn and then 10 miles back. If I've done my maths correctly I make that 20 miles   Bike hire places everywhere en route, and a few nice cafes/cream-tea emporiums on the trail at various places. Also a vineyard if I remember correctly. Old railway line and a nice surface to run on. In fact if it wasn't for that Beeching fella my Mara training routes would be infinitely worse than they actually are.

If you're not staying near Padstow (or Wadebridge or Bodmin) then the coast path is very scenic, but not overly useful for any kind of session. Ensure you re-fuel with pasties - they're isotonic I think.


25/03/2013 at 07:07

Great train run CL, is/are the achilles OK now then? Sounds like you're back to it nicely too Tmap.

Well done on the big PBs despite the wind, Andy D, Dachs & Al_P. Highly satisfactory.

Sorry yours was disappointing SX9. Sounds like there were some hills in there so you did have 1/4 excuses after all!

coro -- you have to do the marathon, if only to provide a unique test of talent vs. training...

And TB, that was an absolutely epic demonstration of endurance in abysmal conditions. And I don't just mean making it through a whole packet of fig rolls, either... I do 27M on the flat in 2 inches of snow, you do 55M on the fells in 2 feet of snow. Who's the nutter now? Also very curious about your high-fat ultra nutrition strategy (though the fig rolls are great for carbs).

Edited: 25/03/2013 at 07:09
25/03/2013 at 07:12
Thanks LD and LS21 I'm just south of wade bridge soothe camel trial sounds perfect. I'll look forward to the isotonic pasties.
25/03/2013 at 07:12
SX9: Hastings is a pretty tough course. I wouldn't give up on a sub3 based on 1:26. In 2007 I ran 1:33 there and backed it up with a 3:15 at London. So you're on the cusp, but with luck the weather will be nicer on 21st April - and if not then the east wind will blow us all home the last 6 miles.
25/03/2013 at 07:52

SL - there's a decent bike hire place in Wadebridge itself, actually on the Camel Trail (the trail has a small section, maybe 0.5 miles or so through Wadebridge centre on the road). Have kids bikes, various attachments for the nippers etc. So you could park there, get the family kitted out with Grifters and then leave them for dust as you speed off!!

Alternatively if you get out for a solo jaunt you can park here - 50.513809,-4.832289 (type that into Google maps) Path 32 is the Camel Trail. This is on street parking but it's free. The trail is about 50 yards from there and takes you to Bodmin (7ish miles at a guess?) Nice surface, trail but good to run on. If you go the other way on the trail to Padstow it's more tarmac I think - prob 3ish miles to Padstow. If you drive there though I'd park where I've said, cos it's easy and free. Will cost you a fair whack in Padstow, so just run there and back, back past your car and up to Bodmin and back. A nice 20 in the bag with some lovely flat stretches for some quick stuff.

Edited: 25/03/2013 at 07:53
25/03/2013 at 08:02

Lodas of good racng and training, so will just mention great PBs by Al_P, Andy and Dachs, an amazing ultra by TB and a ridiculous training run by Marigold.

SX9 - I agree with MtR, Hastings is meant to be tough so don't give up on it yet.

Was just walking out the front door yesterday to go to Milton Keynes when I found out the race was cancelled, 1h50 before the start. At least I hadn't set off a la PP and many others I expect. So another turbo instead.

HR - please don't say that about the weather, I was banking on being able to cram in a massive load of training over the long Easter weekend.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
25/03/2013 at 08:12

Schoolboy error yesterday - I managed to schedule a long run in the way I often do: running home from a family shopping trip.  Made the mistake of starting too soon after a rather nice lunch, so I was on the verge of chucking most of the way round Richmond Park and back to Epsom.  18.5 in all - a decent enough first 14 though given that, then the uphill started and I slowed right down.  Not the most enjoyable run ever.

Taking the kids to centre parcs (Longleat) this week, running will be hilly, apparently.  Then over to Clevedon for Easter so junior & I will be guesting at jools' manor in Ashton Court parkrun.  Hope it's warmer by then.

I had a summer job at Rowntrees once, but the day I arrived in York they sent me to Girvan for 6 weeks.

25/03/2013 at 08:42


Have now read back - some great stuff as ever!

Superb long runs from a whole host of folk - joolska, SL, AW, postie, PP, wardi, HR, CL, ES and CD. I'm also assuming OS got out, but the 5,000 laps of his living room did make me laugh!! Good to see LD back in the game too! And as ever, utterly bonkers/mental/awe-inspiring from CW and Marigold - wow!!

Healing vibes to runningowl - yes much better to get a cough now than in 10 days time!

Great Half times from Andy (a 5k PB during a Half must be a first surely!!), sweedo and Simon - Simon, take the positives. You finished very strongly and felt like you could have carried on for a fair bit longer. Hilly course etc so don't be too phased. You can still do it - start believing it now!

Great 10k PBs from Dachs and Al_P - well done chaps!

And Tim B - that is unbelievable! Well done, I'm completely in awe at that!

Nice story re the Sam Smith's brewery wardi - perhaps CRAB could get a job as a horse there?

And sad to report I don't think I've ever eaten a Chunky Kit Kat.....

25/03/2013 at 09:02

SL - here's a great run for you, with brownie points at the end..... from Wadebridge run to Chapel Amble, (possibly keep off the A39 via a smaller road) then to St Minver, then Rock. Get the ferry across to Padstow (a few mins trip on the shuttle, costs about £3), then into Rick Stein's bakery for some sunken chocolate cake. Run the last 5 miles back down the Camel trail, hand deliverying the nicest breakfast Er Indoors will ever taste.

Should be a magnificent 13 miles or so of changing scenery, and you shouldn't get lost even though you'll be on very quiet roads.

25/03/2013 at 09:37
Sounds wonderful LD- the only issue being my sense of direction is piss poor. Last time we holidayed in Cornwall I went for a 4 mile recovery run, 21 miles later, (during which time her in doors had phoned every hospital in the local area) I luckily stumbled upon our residence, not to a corus of applause and loving welcome but a scolding glare and a cold shoulder, this lasted until I sent her to a spa with champagne lunch the following day. She's told me to stick to a treadmill as not even I could get lost on one.
25/03/2013 at 10:06

Righto - Camel Trail it is then.

25/03/2013 at 10:41

I also did Hastings half in the build up to my only previous martahon - VLM 11, so it's time for some maths .... the Riegel Formula predicts race times by this formula

T2 = T1 * (D2/D1) ^ x   - where x varies but is apx 1.06

for marathon from half marathon then we have Tm = Th * 2^x  

thus 2^x = Tm/Th .... thus x = log(Tm/Th) / log(2)

My 2011 times were 1:28:56 and 3:14:27 so x works out at 1.1286 (higher than normal because Hastings is hilly, London is flat ... EDIT,, no that doesn't make sense, should be lower??)

So my predicted time for VLM13 = 86.07 * 2 ^ 1.1286 = 3:08

I hope not.


Edited: 25/03/2013 at 10:50
25/03/2013 at 10:50

Al_P, Andy, Dachs

Tim B



SimonX9 - in my (experienced) opinion, it takes balls to 'fess up on here to a bad run.  We all have 'em, but only usually hear tales of heroic deeds on this thread.  Don't despair though, I once ran 1.29 at Burnham Beeches half in Sept '06, then went sub 3 for the first time a month later with a 2.52.  Some days it clicks, some days it doesn't.

Speaking of which, I've decided that since training hard and running good times in training produces worse results for me, I've taken it a step further and taken the decision that recovery and easing back into it is pointless as well.  As such I did a hard 17 miles yesterday. Hitting pacing target of 2h59 is the new focus for VLM.

25/03/2013 at 10:52

...oh, that and getting more practice in on the darts board of course 

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