Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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02/04/2013 at 09:36

HR, I nearly had a westerly flow yesterday, wouldn't've called it normal though. Luckily just a recovery run and managed to hold in till home

Padams thanks for the advice and may I echo the congratulations from others on a great casual off road marathon victory.

I notice Stuart did the same distance long run as me, but he had a hangover so was only 49 minutes faster.

Well it's taper time, actually I'm off to the Lakes Wednesday evening till Sunday evening for (hopefully) plenty of hillwalking and won't be doing much running so I've decided taper doesn't officially start till Thursday. My mileage for the last five weeks, in reverse order, has been 70-something, 60-something, 50-something, 40-something, 30-something ... so what to taper from isn't clear, aim for mid-50s I guess.


02/04/2013 at 10:06

BTW, if anyone wants to know what the back of Dan looks like...

 ...except I'm guessing the route of VLM will be a little less muddy, hopefully I'll be a bit further ahead, and Marigold should already have a cigar in his gob!

Cheerful Dave    pirate
02/04/2013 at 10:16

This thread has picked up pace in the customary fashion, right before all the hard luck stories at the Red Lion.  And padams just knocks out a marathon victory for fun.

It turns out Center Parcs (their spelling, not mine) at Longleat is perfect for some serious hill training.  Lots of upslopes that make your eyes water as you approach at the bottom.  Followed that with a similar hill session at Ashton Court on saturday morning (km splits ranged from 4:34 to 3:07, and junior threw up in the finish funnel to mark a rite of passage as a runner.  I'm so proud).  Then a 20 miler sunday morning with over 1000ft of climbing.  Perfect VLM training.

Unfortunately TT's overall average pace indicator would have me slower this year than last, since I'm pretty sure that overall my long runs have been slower than a year ago, and my shorter stuff certainly is, especially intervals which are usually a good marker.  Ho hum, what will be and all that.

02/04/2013 at 10:33

CD - I can see you picking up a place or three on the ascent out of the Blackfriars underpass.  Good work fella.

LD - I just had another look at the results of the HM on Sunday.  It's looking good for you: that Overall chap ran a full half a minute outside my HM PB!  The boy's struggling, I tell ya!

02/04/2013 at 10:36

Hi CD, you've just made me realise that Center Parcs could provide an excellent place to train "outdoors" when its icy. Question is, does the Garmin work OK under their domes?

Just had a look at powerof10 and see they've invented a new "parkrun" event (which used to be categorised as 5KMMT), and they've put me on an "AT" ranking for the first time ever as a result (only for V40, and even then I've never done a very quick parkrun). It'll be in the Olympics next -- imagine the debacle if Mo Farah turned up without his barcode though, or trippped over a back-marker's dog...

Rest day for me. Legs just a touch creaky after the long one yesterday but I'd have done a recovery run in my new regime... were it not taper time!

Edited: 02/04/2013 at 10:36
02/04/2013 at 10:49

Very nice result Padams, that race sounds like a great opportunity for a marathon training long run (on softer ground too). Top long running (in no particular order)from; SLJonnyLD (guess it's do or die now ), postieLSPiscatorJoolsCCcoroMr Boat, Sx9SweedoHR, CD and CW - setting new standards in very-long-and-not-particularly-slow runs, was that a looped affair or a more conventional road run?


March Stats (provided by the 'Connect Stats' app on my phone, which downloads everything from my Garmin account)

Miles - 324

Av Pace - 06:53/M

No-run days - 6 (either rest or pool instead)

PBs- 1 (10k)

HMs - 1

20 milers - 3 (inc Finchley 20 @ 6:02/M)

Minutes of Effort on Bournemouth Prom - 265 (and counting...)

Edited: 02/04/2013 at 10:52
02/04/2013 at 10:59

The Cotswolds, as lovely as it is, has p*ss poor internet so I have been largely out of contact for the last few days. But on a read-back it seems some pretty stunning performances have been put in, not least SL (awesome training pace over all-but marathon distance), Padams (very nonchalant, nicely done...) and Philpub (scorching (and nice pic!)).

I have managed some good training over the Easter break, including a lot of stuff at faster than MP, which I hope will bode well.  But still blown away by some of the monthly mileages you guys notch up.

9 miles yesterday, including 2x3miles at 17mins (and it felt reasonably comfortable).

Taunton Half Marathon this Sunday, although it is too close to VLM to go all-out so will be left wondering what might have been (that said, it is probably not a PB course).  Will instead use it to practice MP in a race and then try to pick it up for the last 3 miles as a confidence booster.  That’s the plan anyway…

Cheerful Dave    pirate
02/04/2013 at 11:28

Nice idea CW, but the covered areas weren't that big and tended to be full of swimming pools.  Mind you, you're the master of the multiple short lap run, so you'd find a way to make it work.

Don't like that new 'parkrun' Po10 category.  It's a 5k race just like any other, and they're deluding themselves trying to pretend otherwise.  I put this in the same bucket as them now not having winners of their events, but 'first finishers'.  PC bollocks.

02/04/2013 at 12:20

Morning all,

A lot of posts over Easter, when did you all have time to eat your Easter eggs?  And loads of running too.

Padams - casual 2.49 off-road marathon victory, bloody hell!

PP - another great race.  You would love the shorts in triathlon!

CL - top run at Maidenhead too.

Well done to all the final (first coro) long runners this weekend, even some very long ones (CW) and very quick ones (SL) - JonnyLD , postieLSPiscatorJools, Speedy Goth, Mr Boat, Sx9SweedoHR, Sportaloo, CD and Al_P.

I'm glad my last post helped get OS out for a decent run although unfortunately I found out that I'm not quite as manly as I'd hoped and did need some more rest before running again as I ended up getting ill again the next day and missing another few runs so my last 2 weeks which should have been peak training were 35M and 31M with 8 days off.  Those are just consecutive Sunday training runs for Charlie these days!  So, I've decided that to taper properly I need to have something to taper from and am going to do a hard week this week then a 2 week taper.  I've done 3 runs so far and feel a lot better now so hopefully am over the bug.  Hope Andy D gets over his quickly too.  6M and 10M yesterday, 10M this morning and should do 12 later.  Nice to have some sunshine, just need someone to turn the heat up a bit now.

Edited: 02/04/2013 at 12:39
02/04/2013 at 12:47

Hope everyone is peaking for London..........

Padams - 2.49 "fun" run, haha

TR - I haven't read back enough yet, have you bagged all your long runs and ready to go?

LJ - glad the bug has cleared


I've been back running a bit, had a good run at the cross country the other weekend in absurdly cold/windy conditions. The route was a proper hilly one, more of a trail run in parts but it was the first time I'd felt like running with some good, proper power. Ironically I made it through that run without any niggles then rolled my ankle on the stairs at Uni after doing some exam prep A few days off again seems to have sorted it and been out today for an easy run. Ridiculous and I did have a laugh at myself, ha

All being well I have my first fell race with Northumberland Fell runners on saturday in the lake district - the Coledale Horseshoe, 9m. I'm also entered into the Fairfield horeshoe mid May and trying to sort out what I need race experience wise to be able to enter a bruiser, the Wasdale head race in July which is 21m inc Sca Fell pike.

Will be watching VLM, so will do some spotting and may come to Red Lion for a few with a couple of the Heaton Harriers lads who are running........

Edited: 02/04/2013 at 12:49
02/04/2013 at 13:19

Al_P -- my last long one was on a slightly undulating 3M loop from the in-laws, so a long loop by my standards! (Accused another runner of using "my" loop. She apologised :- ) Great monthly total from you too, and I'd forgotten that Finchley performance.

LJ -- either your massive training/illness break/hard week/taper, or my overdistance LR strategy, could be *the* bestselling formula next year if we've hit unexpected jackpot regimes. Hope they both work nicely in 19 days

RS78 -- hope the fell-running goes well. I'm booked in for another Keswick summer holiday, so the BGR beckons once more.

CD -- wonder if they've made parkruns a special category because they're so diverse, and nobody wanted to agonise about which were road runs, multiterrain or XC?

02/04/2013 at 13:51

Looks like there was nearly a thread get-together at Ashton Court on Saturday, except I wasn't there (CD: don't know if you spotted Njord).  I don't think your little one puking made it into the race report

02/04/2013 at 14:03

AL_P - That's a decent month.

LJ - Nice to see you back at it, don’t cram too much in buddy, you're on for a massive pb irrespective of the next 5 days training.

RS78 - The fell running sounds ace, I got overtaken on a steep technical downhill part of the Cotswold relays by a proper fell runner, he was flying down with wild abandon.  He was shit uphill though

Heart rate question!!!!

As a complete HR novice, I was wondering what percentage of max HR people run marathons and what time difference does bpm equate to i.e. I ran the Bramley 20 in 1:52 with an average HR of 160, this year I ran 1.53 with a 155 average, is that 5bpm difference of any significance or are there too many variable to draw any conclusion.

Thanks all.


Edited: 02/04/2013 at 14:09
Cheerful Dave    pirate
02/04/2013 at 14:09

Jools - a look at the results and you're right: Njord finished a place ahead of me but my memory is obviously going because I didn't recognise him from the Red Lion.  The shorts were a different colour too.

I did wonder if it would make the report.  They had to cone it off and everything.  He was very embarrassed about it all.  I told him if he ran harder I'd buy him a toaster so he could really let rip in proper sub 3 fashion.

02/04/2013 at 14:21


SL - I think it's going to be an eye opener. I'm pretty shit going downhill as it happens, much stronger on the ups.

CW - sounds like a good plan. Bloke of know from the fell running club is acting as support/nagivator for an attempt next month

02/04/2013 at 14:25

CD (toaster) and Simonx9 (SL comment) 

SL - if I remember rightly, the calculation was roughly 3-4s per bpm, though I found as I put in more effort (i.e. getting up around Mara effort) it was around 2.5s per bpm when I used one previously. Not sure about others, but the only Mara I wore one for came out as 87% of MaxHR, but that included cruising the last 10k rather than pushing it.

LJ - don't overdo it. Irrespective of illness you're still in great shape so don't panic. In terms of taper though I like 2 weeks max, so if I were racing this would be my final hard week.

TR - average pace. Yep, all things being equal it's a good indicator. If I changed from doing shorter efforts to longer sustained efforts I'd expect the pace to change as well though.

CD - as above, all things being equal? Are they? It still doesn't mean you'll run slower though. You may just be doing your long runs and intervals at a more beneficial effort/pace.

Al_P - nice month.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
02/04/2013 at 14:32

TT - you're right, not all things are equal.  I'm running more miles per week this time as I'm not doing ironman this summer, and I've had more 'tired' runs as a result, which would bring the average pace down.  I'm not banking on anything for london though, just find a comfortable pace early on and see what happens.  As a strategy it's worked before...

02/04/2013 at 17:42

Dids - crap timing indeed to hurt your hammy then, if only you'd kept your trap shut re the perfect campaign existing.

PP - taking photo's of Dan from behind ! hand them out to Dans pupils on VLM day.

CD - no ironman so maybe your legs are tired from more running. what summer Tri's are you doing ?

LJ - dont go too mad playing catch up.

SL - sounds like you are fitter to me, got to be a good sign.

CW - what does the AT mean ?

RS - good luck with the fell racing, doesnt appeal to me, I did the Milland Valley Trail race in 2011 and it was downright dangerous belting it downhill unable to stop, some filly broke her collar bone. I bagged a decent campaign in the end, record mileage in March, lots of commuting doubles, 5 midweekers all with ~8M of MP in them and have 5x20, 2x22 and 1x23 bagged.........trouble is I'm now on the bench with the usual campaignly calf issue. Every time I even start to entertain thoughts of quicker than 2:50 I get put back in my 2:5X place, not that its a bad place to be though.


Edited: 02/04/2013 at 18:00
Cheerful Dave    pirate
02/04/2013 at 18:56

TR - I've entered the Vachery middle in July, and I'll probably do the monster middle at Ely in August, maybe Henley Half in September.

02/04/2013 at 19:39

CD - nice, that Vachery race is do-able for me, but might be a bad weekend for me. There's a middle distance taking in the South Downs out of Chichester this year too but its Sept I think. I need something for June-ish for starters.

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