Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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19/04/2013 at 07:47

Hi all,

Though I would make an appearance in the sub 3 section now as I earned my wings at  Brighton Marathon, running 2:58:58, coming from 3:49 at London in 2010.

I have joined a running club now, so planning on improving my 10k and half until London next yr.

19/04/2013 at 07:48

Hopefully, I have finally picked the right weekend to wish everyone well that will be running the VLM this weekend

Really looking forward to watching it from the comfort of my couch and seeing if I can spot any of you on route. Still half considering running the VLM next year for first time.

Fingers crossed that you all get the times you are hoping for  

Edited: 19/04/2013 at 07:49
19/04/2013 at 07:56

IMO you only need to be 100% focused on the day itself - you could be waiting to see how you feel the day before or when you wake up on the morning of the race, but once the decision is made you then need to be 100% committed. I think this is basically what Jools is planning.

Spirun - think you posted that message before, but I forgot to comment the first time! Very impressive improvement - I predict you could go under 2:50 next year if you stay injury-free and keep training consistently.

I'll be out on a long ride while you lot are racing, but will record the coverage and the first thing I do when I get home is check the results!

Just under 12M for me last night - 7M of it was on my own at about 6:40 pace, the rest with clubmates a bit slower. Legs felt rubbish at the start but I stuck with it and actually felt good towards the end!

19/04/2013 at 08:20
Hi Spirun. Looks like we will need to ask you a series of questions and carefully monitor your responses to ensure you are not actually a piece of machine generated code! (I suspect not).

I strongly agree with your sentiments LD. You do need to commit. I always feel sh!t at the start of races, and wonder why I am there, and am usually convinced that a good result is impossible. Once I get going I generally feel great. I do wish I could focus more on the fun bit and worry less about the prep I haven't done. For this reason I don't really like long discussions at the start of races about how great the other person feels as it just makes me feel worse. So see you all at the end!
19/04/2013 at 08:23

Well I'll be adding another spring marathon DNS to my collection. I couldn't lift my right leg properly this morning, to the extent that I nearly fell over a twig (I kid you not). Even I'm not dumb enough to try run a marathon like that!

Good luck to you all. I'll be tracking you from the comfort of my sofa!

19/04/2013 at 08:29

Oh no, that's bad news TT. No chance it's just 'one of those things' and will disappear overnight? 

19/04/2013 at 08:36

Padams - enjoy your bike ride.

Jools - Sounds like (potentially) good news.  

Sniffling cold - Check.

Heavy legs - Check.

niggles in calf and hamstring - check

Bat out of Hell - Meatloaf

Thunder Road - Bruce Springstein. 

No Cars go - Arcade fire.

The last time - Rolling stones  ;-)



19/04/2013 at 08:40

Jools and Marigold, still totally with you - fingers crossed.  I agree with Padams - it's Sunday that matters.  

TT, sorry to hear that but sounds sensible - will you be at the RL in any event?  Incidentally, when you wrote about training being a proper tempo rather than overdoing it, how would you describe that?  I did effectively the same session last Sat and this Wed - 15M with 7 @ effort (7.5 on Wed) in the middle - on Sat, av HR for 5:40 pace effort was 160ish, on Wed, av HR for 5:34 pace was 164ish, so not overdoing it, but I doubt I could have converted that pace to a full HM (my legs get a bit tired, probably as I have never done any speed work).  Do you have any experience of HM specific training?

Welcome Spirun and congrats.

19/04/2013 at 09:01

TT - oh dear, bad news, pressure is on Dan now !

I've made my separate apologies to jools I didnt mean she wasnt 100% committed to VLM she has 18 big weeks of PnD in the bank.

MrB - keep calm and carry on

By mental investment I meant more whats going to happen on the day, what its going to feel like and sound like etc I've run strongly along the embankment loads of times in training already, it might not happen on the day but there's no point practicing that.

feels strange here, still doesnt seem like VLM time, I'm usually on my 3rd string of worry beads for the day nd working out pace options. I'm going baxter 2008 basics this time when I just ran along as a complete newbie just controlling the process and letting the time take care of itself.

Edited: 19/04/2013 at 09:03
19/04/2013 at 09:02

Jools - Good luck toeing the line

TT - That's a shame, at least (I think I'm right in saying) it wasn't an A race for you

Marigold - All the best with your glute.

Spirun - Well done (twice!)

Charles - Good luck with the sub-3. That HM time and the fact you're on an improvement curve bodes well.

Got myself down to 69.2kg (10st12) yesterday morning from a training weight of around 72kg (11st5). Managed to put a kg of that back on yesterday through reintroducing carbs but hopefully there'll still be a net reduction by Sunday. 4 easy today then done till Sunday.

19/04/2013 at 09:09

TT = Two Thoups is an amalgamation of this  and this.  Quite straight forward to follow really isn't it?  I do try to avoid being cryptic as much as possible ;o)

(And just for LD YES I have played golf with Duncan Preston.)

Oh a bit of friction is there something significant in the offing raising stress levels? Horses for courses on the menthol side. What you talking 'bout Willis you might even say.

Al_P - chance to have another go at the maths for Spirun.  PM me if you need some help.

For anyone I work with who is reading this.  Yes I am doing it, no I'm not @rsed about the consequences of Boston, yes this one is 26.2miles and to quote LS21 from the start a few years ago 'I'm running it for meself'.

As you were.

19/04/2013 at 09:20

CRAB - Don't know who Duncan Preston is, but I do know who Robert Peston is ..... he's the bloke I saw outside Nottingham train station on tuesday. I would have stopped for an autograph, but don't know if he collects them.


19/04/2013 at 09:29

Good news, my pine cone was washed and dried out last night. It's looking much more like its old self and I can confidently predict 10 deg, sunny with not much wind for sunday. Phew, what a relief.....


19/04/2013 at 10:07

TT - shocker.  My missus thinks it's hilarious that I've got pacers pacing the sub 3 pacer

Marigold fan club building already.  Doors only been open 5 minutes.

19/04/2013 at 10:49

CC2 - nope. It's been getting worse. I suspect knowing exactly what the problem is means that I've probably been tensing up whilst running, especially as I'd altered my routes to try ease it. Combine that with starting stretches, etc, to try loosen it up and I've probably just made it worse Still, on the plus side, at least I will be starting to get it fixed next week.

Lev_ - hr is meaningless without a frame of reference (%, max, etc), but in my book, as a regular tempo (i.e. there may be a place for it closer to a target HM), 7m+ at quicker than HM pace is overdoing it.

Andy D - nope. I was just going to keep Dan company on his pacing job.

Lol. So I'm Two Thoups then CRAB? Well you've got my head on a platter before the gun even goes then!

Company Dan, not pacers

Edited: 19/04/2013 at 10:51
19/04/2013 at 11:03
TT - I had great success with an osteo resulting from injury in 2008 after London mara. Was alignment issues related to hip pain and lower back pain. What I did find is that while the pain like symptoms went almost straight away but it took. Few months for things to catch up running related. Hope you get things sorted
19/04/2013 at 11:05

TT - Sounds like 26.2 at any pace would be a distinctly bad idea for Sunday, but a shame we won't get to have a pint and hobble down Whitehall together!  All the best.

Jools - Just the reasoned approach I'd expect from you. Hopefully one that gets you on the start line ready to kick some bottom.

Simon L - yep, one yellow, one black. (Or one black, one yellow, I'll see how I feel on the day.)

Some talk of HR from Nich2 and others. HR will be one of three bits of info on the Garmin (along with total time and "pace - lap", Garmin set to autolap 1 mile, pace band on wrist, etc.) but I'm not using it for pacing in the sense of a pre-planned number. It'll just be another check once I've hit my rhythm to make sure that effort is even. The thing is, I've only ever run two (fast, road) marathons, and each time my HR has been 168, but I can't help thinking that's a bit of a coincidence (and possibly self-fulfilling, since I was more HR-conscious a few years ago). In more recent times since doing more non-running exercise (or is it just me getting old?) I've found typical average HR has been a few beats lower than before (e.g. rarely over 180 for a 10k when it used to be 183/4), but on the other hand the effect of the taper is for HR to climb much more quickly, e.g. on the MP run yesterday, into the high 160s in the first mile, compared to average 164/5 for a typical MP run during heavy training.  BTW, Marigold - thanks for the chest strap tip.  My easy pace HR isn't 198-220 any more. 

So basically I don't really know what HR will do on Sunday, but I think I do know what MP feels like.  Anyone else?

Edited: 19/04/2013 at 11:07
19/04/2013 at 11:23

Ah, PP, a welcome return of heart rate discussions.

I shall be a slave to mine. 150bpm for the first 13 miles at least….. used to be 154 five/six years ago, but age has diminished me (maybe the reason for your lower rate?). If I’ve got it wrong and could have gone faster, well I’ll enjoy a storming second half won’t I?

I find my heart is quite high just warming up from excitement, but once we start it won’t actually reach 150 for a few miles.

Don’t forget the Garmin settings:

  • Field 1 – heart rate
  • Field 2 – AVE lap pace
  • Field 3 – AVE lap time
  • Field 4 – overall time (although this one Is less important)

That 3rd field needs a click at each mile – but the beauty of it means that if you forget one, you can double click at the next mile. Someone on here told me about this setting – I’m eternally grateful. 

19/04/2013 at 11:30
LD - don't you have field 2 as CURRENT Lap pace to show you how you are doing in the current mile, otherwise it is just an inaccurate version of field 3?
19/04/2013 at 11:44
Agree with Marigold:

Current lap pace gives you the guide for the pace since you last went past a mile marker.

I also use currently lap HR rather than just HR to smooth the data in case I slow down in response to an HR blip due to running too close to Nell or something.

Average lap time with manual laps.

The 4th field is usually total time, but at London it doesn't really matter due to the clocks at every mile, but one year these were out due to Red start starting 20 seconds late.
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