Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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19/04/2013 at 08:29

Oh no, that's bad news TT. No chance it's just 'one of those things' and will disappear overnight? 

19/04/2013 at 08:36

Padams - enjoy your bike ride.

Jools - Sounds like (potentially) good news.  

Sniffling cold - Check.

Heavy legs - Check.

niggles in calf and hamstring - check

Bat out of Hell - Meatloaf

Thunder Road - Bruce Springstein. 

No Cars go - Arcade fire.

The last time - Rolling stones  ;-)



19/04/2013 at 08:40

Jools and Marigold, still totally with you - fingers crossed.  I agree with Padams - it's Sunday that matters.  

TT, sorry to hear that but sounds sensible - will you be at the RL in any event?  Incidentally, when you wrote about training being a proper tempo rather than overdoing it, how would you describe that?  I did effectively the same session last Sat and this Wed - 15M with 7 @ effort (7.5 on Wed) in the middle - on Sat, av HR for 5:40 pace effort was 160ish, on Wed, av HR for 5:34 pace was 164ish, so not overdoing it, but I doubt I could have converted that pace to a full HM (my legs get a bit tired, probably as I have never done any speed work).  Do you have any experience of HM specific training?

Welcome Spirun and congrats.

19/04/2013 at 09:01

TT - oh dear, bad news, pressure is on Dan now !

I've made my separate apologies to jools I didnt mean she wasnt 100% committed to VLM she has 18 big weeks of PnD in the bank.

MrB - keep calm and carry on

By mental investment I meant more whats going to happen on the day, what its going to feel like and sound like etc I've run strongly along the embankment loads of times in training already, it might not happen on the day but there's no point practicing that.

feels strange here, still doesnt seem like VLM time, I'm usually on my 3rd string of worry beads for the day nd working out pace options. I'm going baxter 2008 basics this time when I just ran along as a complete newbie just controlling the process and letting the time take care of itself.

Edited: 19/04/2013 at 09:03
19/04/2013 at 09:02

Jools - Good luck toeing the line

TT - That's a shame, at least (I think I'm right in saying) it wasn't an A race for you

Marigold - All the best with your glute.

Spirun - Well done (twice!)

Charles - Good luck with the sub-3. That HM time and the fact you're on an improvement curve bodes well.

Got myself down to 69.2kg (10st12) yesterday morning from a training weight of around 72kg (11st5). Managed to put a kg of that back on yesterday through reintroducing carbs but hopefully there'll still be a net reduction by Sunday. 4 easy today then done till Sunday.

19/04/2013 at 09:09

TT = Two Thoups is an amalgamation of this  and this.  Quite straight forward to follow really isn't it?  I do try to avoid being cryptic as much as possible ;o)

(And just for LD YES I have played golf with Duncan Preston.)

Oh a bit of friction is there something significant in the offing raising stress levels? Horses for courses on the menthol side. What you talking 'bout Willis you might even say.

Al_P - chance to have another go at the maths for Spirun.  PM me if you need some help.

For anyone I work with who is reading this.  Yes I am doing it, no I'm not @rsed about the consequences of Boston, yes this one is 26.2miles and to quote LS21 from the start a few years ago 'I'm running it for meself'.

As you were.

19/04/2013 at 09:20

CRAB - Don't know who Duncan Preston is, but I do know who Robert Peston is ..... he's the bloke I saw outside Nottingham train station on tuesday. I would have stopped for an autograph, but don't know if he collects them.


19/04/2013 at 09:29

Good news, my pine cone was washed and dried out last night. It's looking much more like its old self and I can confidently predict 10 deg, sunny with not much wind for sunday. Phew, what a relief.....


19/04/2013 at 10:07

TT - shocker.  My missus thinks it's hilarious that I've got pacers pacing the sub 3 pacer

Marigold fan club building already.  Doors only been open 5 minutes.

19/04/2013 at 10:49

CC2 - nope. It's been getting worse. I suspect knowing exactly what the problem is means that I've probably been tensing up whilst running, especially as I'd altered my routes to try ease it. Combine that with starting stretches, etc, to try loosen it up and I've probably just made it worse Still, on the plus side, at least I will be starting to get it fixed next week.

Lev_ - hr is meaningless without a frame of reference (%, max, etc), but in my book, as a regular tempo (i.e. there may be a place for it closer to a target HM), 7m+ at quicker than HM pace is overdoing it.

Andy D - nope. I was just going to keep Dan company on his pacing job.

Lol. So I'm Two Thoups then CRAB? Well you've got my head on a platter before the gun even goes then!

Company Dan, not pacers

Edited: 19/04/2013 at 10:51
19/04/2013 at 11:03
TT - I had great success with an osteo resulting from injury in 2008 after London mara. Was alignment issues related to hip pain and lower back pain. What I did find is that while the pain like symptoms went almost straight away but it took. Few months for things to catch up running related. Hope you get things sorted
19/04/2013 at 11:05

TT - Sounds like 26.2 at any pace would be a distinctly bad idea for Sunday, but a shame we won't get to have a pint and hobble down Whitehall together!  All the best.

Jools - Just the reasoned approach I'd expect from you. Hopefully one that gets you on the start line ready to kick some bottom.

Simon L - yep, one yellow, one black. (Or one black, one yellow, I'll see how I feel on the day.)

Some talk of HR from Nich2 and others. HR will be one of three bits of info on the Garmin (along with total time and "pace - lap", Garmin set to autolap 1 mile, pace band on wrist, etc.) but I'm not using it for pacing in the sense of a pre-planned number. It'll just be another check once I've hit my rhythm to make sure that effort is even. The thing is, I've only ever run two (fast, road) marathons, and each time my HR has been 168, but I can't help thinking that's a bit of a coincidence (and possibly self-fulfilling, since I was more HR-conscious a few years ago). In more recent times since doing more non-running exercise (or is it just me getting old?) I've found typical average HR has been a few beats lower than before (e.g. rarely over 180 for a 10k when it used to be 183/4), but on the other hand the effect of the taper is for HR to climb much more quickly, e.g. on the MP run yesterday, into the high 160s in the first mile, compared to average 164/5 for a typical MP run during heavy training.  BTW, Marigold - thanks for the chest strap tip.  My easy pace HR isn't 198-220 any more. 

So basically I don't really know what HR will do on Sunday, but I think I do know what MP feels like.  Anyone else?

Edited: 19/04/2013 at 11:07
19/04/2013 at 11:23

Ah, PP, a welcome return of heart rate discussions.

I shall be a slave to mine. 150bpm for the first 13 miles at least….. used to be 154 five/six years ago, but age has diminished me (maybe the reason for your lower rate?). If I’ve got it wrong and could have gone faster, well I’ll enjoy a storming second half won’t I?

I find my heart is quite high just warming up from excitement, but once we start it won’t actually reach 150 for a few miles.

Don’t forget the Garmin settings:

  • Field 1 – heart rate
  • Field 2 – AVE lap pace
  • Field 3 – AVE lap time
  • Field 4 – overall time (although this one Is less important)

That 3rd field needs a click at each mile – but the beauty of it means that if you forget one, you can double click at the next mile. Someone on here told me about this setting – I’m eternally grateful. 

19/04/2013 at 11:30
LD - don't you have field 2 as CURRENT Lap pace to show you how you are doing in the current mile, otherwise it is just an inaccurate version of field 3?
19/04/2013 at 11:44
Agree with Marigold:

Current lap pace gives you the guide for the pace since you last went past a mile marker.

I also use currently lap HR rather than just HR to smooth the data in case I slow down in response to an HR blip due to running too close to Nell or something.

Average lap time with manual laps.

The 4th field is usually total time, but at London it doesn't really matter due to the clocks at every mile, but one year these were out due to Red start starting 20 seconds late.
19/04/2013 at 11:51

Hmm, yes not sure what happened with that duplicate post, most annoying.


19/04/2013 at 11:57

not wearing HRM, worried it could be an unnecessary distraction for me, maybe next time. Will be displaying Lap Pace, Avg Pace and Total Time. Bezel locked (405).

Don't think I'll be pressing any buttons either, just accept there will be slight inaccuracies, mile markers hopefully help me spot them. Will look for lines on the road this time as last time I looked for the gateway things but I'm sure one of them wasn't correct.

19/04/2013 at 12:10

Been reading back over these pages, and best of luck to you all on Sunday, especially those of you struggling to make it to the start in good health.

Not taking part this year despite getting GFA time in Milton Keynes last year. Being a numpty i agreed to having our wedding in February, putting any sensible training plan out the window. Must be my lack of qualifications, especially by this threads standards!

19/04/2013 at 12:24

ON7 - Wow, that must have been a helluva wedding!

TT - no.  Wrong again.  Not sure how many more clues you want.  Maybe just chuck me on ignore like most poeple do.  You'll life'll be better for it ;o)

I met Ronnie Preston in the early 80s but we're getting a little tenuous now.  Never played golf with him though.

As you were.

19/04/2013 at 12:27

Yeah, sorry it's the current lap pace .... it's the one which gets progressively more accurate at the mile progresses. 

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