Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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Blisters    pirate
29/04/2013 at 23:20

Have a tissue LD, it'll all be forgotten in two year's time. Meanwhile, I agree.

30/04/2013 at 07:40

More importantly, we've just gone through 97,000 posts. Who's going to get number 100,000?!

Easy 6M run and then a rubbish 3k swim. I was getting cramp in several places pretty early on - suggests a couple of easier days are probably in order. So will either run the intervals easy tonight or just do a steady run instead.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
30/04/2013 at 08:40

Obviously we should get Dull back to make the ceremonial 100,000th post, but almost certainly it'll be some johnny-one-post who we never hear from again.

30/04/2013 at 09:06

The timing of the changes is poor, but 3:05 M18-39 is more than far imho. I thought the 50-59 range might move a little more, though maybe there is a call to, as LD alluded to in a roundabout way, working on 5 year gaps for the Vets, rather than 10.

Scary photo LD!

Fingers crossed you get a club place Wardi.

I figured I might as well try a light session yesterday afternoon before my back seized up fully (under instructions to try carry on as normal, but to err on the side of control; though I ran very little from Wednesday to Saturday last week just to be on the safe side), so with a long jog either side I got in 15 x 2/1 @ ~HM effort. Pace was marginally better than expected and it, much like the strides in the morning, seemed to actually loosen up the back, so win-win really, though it is still incredibly frustrating feeling the lack of power getting through to the legs.

Next osteopath session tomorrow night will hopefully move things along a chunk more, and I guess the two lessons to take out of this are: 1) no more diy, and 2) if I do something like this again get it looked at straight away. I'd kick myself for being so blasé about it if I could actually lift my leg high enough!

30/04/2013 at 10:51

Really sorry if this (undoubtedly does) sound like a repeat of the same question asked a million times over on this thread but:

Just run my first marathon.  3.11.50 on Manchester's flat track.  Been running casually for 4 years (10-15 mpw, no structure) and properly for the last 9 months (up to 55mpw on P+D).  Am 35 next month.

Sub 3 will now be my obsession and logic tells me that my best shot will come in the next couple of years.  Toyed with my second mara being this autumn but I actually think I want to train to do two next spring instead.  My plan for the summer was:

Core strength work - done zero

Stretching/pilates - done zero

Far more speed work - Done only the P+D stuff, which is not too intense and designed for the marathon not for the faster races

That's ultimately designed to get my 5k, 10k and HM times down.  They are:

19.24 - only hilly Park Runs from last autumn, this will come down easily




General thoughts on my plan?  Am I decent "candidate" to get there?

Thanks all/anyone/someone in advance

30/04/2013 at 11:53

Just seen that bloke off the telly Coming out of Piccadilly station.. You know late 30s, craggy face. Plays a detective....oh god, who is it... I know, I know.... The bloke off Taggart.

get in - Didsbury 1 Coro and Crab 0.

30/04/2013 at 11:57

SB: I would say you were a decent candidate. You're pretty young compared to some of us coffin dodgers on here and you've got a decent plan. Joining a club would give you more structured speed sessions a couple of times a week which would get your pbs down. You've come to the right place on here anyway; you'll probably be targeting 2:45 this time next year ;0)

30/04/2013 at 12:03

Lol, cheers Mr Boat but I think i'll stick to just getting under 3 hours!

Have toyed with joining a club.  Radcliffe AC are my local cluba nd they seem to have/produce some decent runners.

30/04/2013 at 12:08

SB: To echo what Mr B said it certainly sounds as though you have sub 3 well within you. If your not used to doing speedwork then joining a club will certainly benefit you & if you just keep the miles up from now on then come your next marathon campaign you will be a better runner heading into it.

30/04/2013 at 12:10
Well done to last weekend's marathoners - Jonny, a great debut!   Trying to cut back this week before the half on Sunday, though typically I've probably done more than I should have done - 7.5M with some strides and a couple of km of MP on Sat, 12.5M with 15 / 10 / 5 min (3:28/km, 3:27/km and 3:20/km averages) on Sun, a gentle 4M yesterday and then a sort of HM "dress" this morning adapting one of marigold's sessions - 2km @ HMP / 3 x 2 mins / 2km @ HMP.  Stupidly didn't think about distance so ended up having done 8.5M by the time I got to work.  2km HMP intervals felt so much harder for 3:31/km pace than it has done on all the 7 / 8 mile tempos I've done in the last few weeks (isn't this always the case in race week though?).  Managed to boot up the pace on the 2 min intervals to cover 600m.   Any ideas for the next few days?  Was thinking tomorrow and Fri totally off, some easy running/strides on Sat and a small session on Thursday - perhaps 5M with a couple of 10k pace intervals?  Or should I just keep to easy with some strides? 
30/04/2013 at 12:10

Welcome Strangely. Well done on your marathon -- was that fairly evenly paced, or did you go out quick and have a miserable last few miles, or go out slow and speed up at the end? Popular reckoning is that you need to get your half marathon time down to ~1:23 to be in sub-3 shape for the marathon, so it would be good to see how that goes following your summer plan.

I'm injured -- not such a worry now -- just my left shin still niggling. It's a muscle I think, on the outside of the bone at the front. I jogged to work on it without making it much worse I think, but will take it easy...

30/04/2013 at 12:16

SB - some timely news from the Manc Marathon. A mate of mine who whups my ass over 5k and has been trying to break sub-3 for years FINALLY upped his miles (to 65/week) and ran a 22 min pb for a 2:40 finish.

Don't rule out some big improvements.
30/04/2013 at 12:26

Warning - you'll get some good advice on here, tis true, but watch out for a bloke called "philPub". Can you trust a man who runs in an invisible orange thong?

30/04/2013 at 12:28

How do you know it's orange if it's invisible?

30/04/2013 at 12:35

Strangely - I was in a similar boat, albeit decidedly more coffin-shaped. I got injured soon after my first marathon (3:14) because I wasn't used to the mileage, which clearly you aren't either. I spent much of the next 18 months being injured (ITBS etc) and I wouldn't want you to risk the same. I think you are wise not to rush to another this year,  one in spring 2014 would be great but I wouldn't personally recommend two, perhaps look at one in the autumn next year if all goes well.

I would recommend (for what it's worth anyway!) two to four easy weeks, then get used to doing about 31-35 miles week-in, week-out and start to add in quality sessions - intervals, Fartlek, LT tempo etc. - two a week, ideally a club or like-minded runner(s). Look for a couple of 5k/10k races eg. parkrun.

If all goes well perhaps up the mileage to 36-40 after the summer and do some halves in the autumn, inlcuding a flat one to assess your marathon potential. Build up a little more in Nov/Dec and perhaps roughly follow P&D 55-70 schedule in the new year.

If I'dve been able to do this I'd be sub-3 now, as it was I couldn't and kept having to have long stretches out and did 3:01 at London. In line with what Boat says, I am targetting 2:55, not 3, next year!

Edited: 30/04/2013 at 12:38
30/04/2013 at 12:41

Thank you all, greatly appreciated and also very encouraging!

Charlie - alas, it was the latter! I thought I was running within my capabilities and ran pretty even mile splits up to 20.  Mile 21 dropped off by 8 seconds and then the rest was an abortion.  Pace dropped by around a minute a mile including one 15-20 second bit of walking to regroup.

I assume this was the dreaded "wall" but it's odd because I felt like I had the energy left to carry on at that pace but it was my legs that suddenly had become half a tonne blocks of steel.  If - and I assume it was - the wall, I didn't expect it to feel that way.

30/04/2013 at 12:48

LD - That's some quite startling improvement.  Thing is, it's quite hard at the moment to imagine running at 6.50 miles for 26.2 at the minute let alone anything that quick.  Guess your goals re-adjust but it still seems hard to visualise going much quicker than your last race.

30/04/2013 at 12:50

Read Noakes last night about runners slowing down. He said the only research on this was at the Osaka Marathon (obviously that's before my ground breaking study).

He showed that both the top 10% of runners and the bottom 10% show a gradual slowdown through the race rather than a collapse near the end.  

That's in complete accord of what I was seeing too.   No mention of whether different sexes or age groups mattered - but obviously they are not thorough enough to be in line for a Nobel prize.  

Last night I took the first 200 runners from 2007 to see whether warmer conditions changed the profile. Looks like it did increase the slowdown between first 10k and last 10k (by a couple of percentage points - from about 14 to 16%) .    

Obviously you are all under a non-disclosure for this.    

Edited: 30/04/2013 at 12:51
30/04/2013 at 12:52

PP - my head tells me they are  invisible my heart tells me there must at least be something small and colourful there.

30/04/2013 at 13:01

Pm - That's not a million miles off my plan.  I'm fairly lucky in that i'm not all that injury prone.  I have a spot of mild PF that comes and goes but other than that, i'm usually ok.  I want to keep it that way though so a gradual building back up is definitely the right way to go.  Cheers.

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