Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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19/05/2013 at 18:26

Dan - good effort in the 50M race. Probably sensible not to do the 10k!

I expect if we were to look back over the years, there are always quite a few niggles in May after VLM/FLM. Remember to recover properly. Most of you won't have A races for a while now - better to have a couple more easy weeks than have to take a month off in a few weeks' time.

Just under 60M on the bike followed by 6M run this morning - felt pretty good. Run pace was about 6:40s and felt quite comfortable - that would be a nice IM run pace! Big weekend next weekend (long run and 2 days of Tour of Wessex) so need to keep the legs relatively fresh over the next few days.

19/05/2013 at 20:15

Mr B - I shall be roughly following the same schedule, so it'll be intetesting to compare notes.

19/05/2013 at 21:26

Dachs: Sure will; I've followed this one a few times now and 2 out of 3 have given me decent results. I think I need to maybe adjust the quicker reps a bit from about 6 weeks out as it's at this stage my Achilles begins to quake. Maybe do MP tempos instead of the 5k pace intervals.

20/05/2013 at 12:07

Hi

Looking for some clarification re P & D run paces. Is General Aerobic slower than Medium/Long pace.

If I have understood correctly, am I in the right areas assuming the following goal marathon pace

Marathon Pace 4:10 per km

Recovery 5:00+ per km

LT 3:55 - 4:00 per km

Long/Medium runs 5:00 - 4:35 per km (starting 20% slower and finishing 10% slower MP)

General Aerobic 5:05m - 4.:45 per km ???????

 

Will be staring P & D 18 wk (88km to 113km) 10/6 with view to running sub 3 hr Poznan on 13/10.

Many thaks................

 

 

 

 

20/05/2013 at 12:32
Dan A wrote (see)

First over marathon distance run for me yesterday since August 2011. North Downs 50 miler. Not particularly fit at the mo (particularly after lasts week's boozy holiday). 

For fun though I ran with the leader for 20-odd miles before dropping back (he smashed the course record by half an hour). Jogged/walked the last 20 miles for 8h42. I'm pacing the Ealing 10k this morning so needed to save a little. 

all in all a nice training run ahead of a busy ultra calendar this summer. 

I was there too!  Said hello (briefly) just by Juniper Hill (before you turn left and do the steep climb taking the runners up to Reigate Hill).

It was a really enjoyable race.  First 25m very steady and easy.  Whilst I had hoped to keep the whole thing very easy (because of a goal race in 12 days time) I ended up getting drawn into the race and running the second half way too hard.  Came 3rd in 7hr45.  Legs took a battering and I'm not sure 2 weeks is enough recovery time!  Hey ho - it's done now.  I am certainly not at all surprised that you did not pace a 10km at 40min the next day.  Pretty certain I could not have done that.

20/05/2013 at 12:52

BM - those paces look about right to me. Yes, GA should be slower than LR/MLR. GA should be 15-25% slower than MP.

20/05/2013 at 12:53

BM: General aerobic pace for me is how I'm feeling on the day. HR is usually about 10-15 beats or so above Recovery pace.The medium long and long runs are often done progressively, again, depending on how the legs are feeling.

20/05/2013 at 12:56

Sshhh don't tell LD but hoping to leapfrog him on Strava this weekend in a single run, by completing the Cleveland Way whilst competing in the Hardmoors 110.

My thoughts are turning to the summer and my marathon running next year (no ultras allowed before May ) and was curious for some views on what to do to help build a better base. Seen and read a lot about Phil Maffetone approach to building mileage at lower HR to help with fat utilisation and be able to run a given pace at a lower heart rate.

Any views on this or other approaches I could look at for helping to improve my running over the summer. Likely to follow an Advanced Marathon plan from PP/SD over the winter with higher mileage than this year. 

Also just wanting to distract myself before the race on Friday


20/05/2013 at 13:34

ES & MR BOAT.....thank you for the prompt replies. I get the idea and glad to know I had read the book properly. All my running has been done at way too fast a pace...4.29 for long runs. Seems odd to me to train at such slow paces when you have to run your marathon so much faster. Anyway, by all accounts the system works, and thats all I should need to know.

20/05/2013 at 14:24

MTriton - sorry I couldn't keep up for a chat.  As you'd noticed I'd slowed down considerably by then!  You did look very easy at that point; glad you held on for a solid time & podium spot.  I started to take my time at the checkpoints just after I saw you and was chicked at each of the next three.

Probably shouldn't have allowed myself to run at the front but was having a good chat with the leader (2.37 at London having only decided last minute to run  following a recent 2nd place in the UK 100k champs).

Got out for 6 miles this morning, then will run to and from 5-a-side tonight. Gladly no damage done.

Very interested to see what Padams can churn out in the Ironman.  What's the IM equivalent of a sub 2h30 marathon.  Really I should know that by now.

20/05/2013 at 14:32

Hi

Looking for some clarification re P & D run paces. Is General Aerobic slower than Medium/Long pace.

If I have understood correctly, am I in the right areas assuming the following goal marathon pace

Marathon Pace 4:10 per km

Recovery 5:00+ per km

LT 3:55 - 4:00 per km

Long/Medium runs 5:00 - 4:35 per km (starting 20% slower and finishing 10% slower MP)

General Aerobic 5:05m - 4.:45 per km ???????

 

Will be staring P & D 18 wk (88km to 113km) 10/6 with view to running sub 3 hr Poznan on 13/10.

Many thaks................

 

 

 

 

20/05/2013 at 14:36

Sorry.....dont know why last post is repeated......apologies everyone

Cheerful Dave    pirate
20/05/2013 at 14:58

"What's the IM equivalent of a sub 2h30 marathon"

Sub 3 is very good.  Generally the top pro men will be in the 2:40s and women in the 2:50s, depending on the course.

20/05/2013 at 15:15

"What's the IM equivalent of a sub 2h30 marathon"

Although if you were asking about the overall time then I suppose the equivalent is probably sub-9.  Only the serious big boys do that (just a handful of age-groupers get there each year).

20/05/2013 at 15:22

CD - I think he's talking overall finish time equivalent.  I'd say off the top of my noggin something like (on a flat course which Nice isn't) :-

3:00 = 11hours
2:45 = 10hours
2:30 = 9:30hours
2:20 = 9:00hours
2:10 = 8:30

Tip - Probably don't get too many 8:30 T-shirts made up in XXXL.

They started doing something on IMTalk with banding (might be worth thinking about contacting them if you're serious?) but I'm not sure what the times were and obviously they didn't link it back to equivalent marathon performance.  I think they are doing Swim Caps for the different standards. Only started it about a month ago so the time might be good for making contact?

Norseman give out Balck T-shirts for the first 100(?) and Roth give out a special one for sub9 so there's a bit of form there.

As you were.

20/05/2013 at 15:37

Crab - think your IM times are a bit generous. I would say a 2:30 marathon is harder than a 9:30 IM, possibly closer to 9 hours (given I got close to that and am/was not a particularly good cyclist).

I reckon add 30 mins for Nice, does that sound about right?

20/05/2013 at 15:43

Shift Crab's lefthand column down by one and it looks more like it.

(I've done three 9.2x IMs and despite the run being my strongest discipline I'm nowhere near 2.30 for a marathon.)

20/05/2013 at 16:30

Nice races from greekweak, Padams, CC2, Dan and MT.

And good news on the parkrun knee test LD.

Wardi - we're all allowed off days, and 20:38 in pouring rain is not too bad considering.

Nice sessions/faster running from HR, Al_P, greekweak, kr 

Glad to hear you're feeling better TR.

Sorry about your on-going issues RS78. Fingers crossed for you.

AR - yes, as Dachs said, Yateley is reasonably quick/some reasonable depth. Having said that, if you had enough energy to do 20 @ 6:55 the next morning you obviously can push much harder in the 10k anyway.

Busy weekend of family stuff here, but did manage to get a little bit of running done. Long run with a bit of effort to start the week and I'm starting to feel a bit fitter so happy with where I am for now.

20/05/2013 at 16:34

Come on you lot, please don't pollute these fine pages with talk of 50 mile races and Iron Men. These are just made up events for those who have failed, and now seek refuge from the finest running event on god's earth.

May as well compare a 3 hour marathon with getting a sixer in a conker tournament.

20/05/2013 at 17:22

BM - If you have been consistently running 20+ miles at 4:29km (7:13mi) then you're probably in sub-3 shape! But yes, that is too fast for the P&D schedule. The LT and MP runs will help with maintaining race pace, long runs are all about building endurance and promoting fat burning.

I am hardly an expert after one marathon, but during my race, I never felt like I was close to running out of energy. I believe it was the long runs that gave me that essential endurance by adapting to burn a higher % of fat at a given pace.

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